Jesus , Krishna- which of the two is the supreme-god?

[Tabu]

Brahmakumaris (and Brahmakumars) are not exactly Hindus.

Exactly , what is the definition of an exact Hindu?
I am I hearing a fatwa ? That's a far cry from Hinduism.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The brahmakumaris are a monotheistic sect that worship Shiva alone.

They consider their founder as Lord Brahma.

"God (Shiva) is considered to be an eternal soul, a personality like human souls, but the Supreme one (Paramatma) and "knowledgeful". His purpose is to awaken humanity and restore harmony, giving power through the Brahma Kumaris' practise of Raja Yoga, eliminating evil and negativity. He is not the creator of matter which is itself considered to be eternal. He speaks through the mouth of Dada Lekhraj.
Brahma Kumaris - Conservapedia

For me, this equals blasphemy.

How can you state that, considering your own position as an atheist !

I am an atheist but I am also a Hindu. I do not say anything that is not there in our scriptures. I am an advaitist and for me nothing other than Brahman exists. All this talk of Gods speaking through a human is absurd and not Hinduism.

I am I hearing a fatwa ? That's a far cry from Hinduism.

Hindu teachers do not claim Godly status. To do so is charlatanry.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Orthodox, conservative hinduism does not accept the position of atheism.

You are not correct here. Orthodox Hinduism has no problem with atheism. Why otherwise would they say 'Brahman is one and there is no second'? Why would they say 'Ayamatma Brahman' or 'So'ham' or 'Aham Brahmasmi' or 'Brahma veda Brahmaiva bhavati'? Why should Chandogya say 'Tat twamasi'? If you are that, then where is the space for a God? Read the Nasadiya Sukta again. 'Gods are later than the production of the world' - IMHO, very rightly and daringly said more than 3,000 years ago. There are more RigVedic hymns like that. Nasadiya is not the only one. I am a very orthodox Hindu, that is why I do not accept the new-fangled Gods.

 

[miodrag]

Miodrag, that is just one Hindu view. There are many others. There are even those who deny the existence of Gods and Goddesses, soul or re-birth (that is my view, and I am a staunch Hindu).

Well, this is a religious forum and in the world of theology Hinduism means something quite specific, a Vedic religion and it's offshoots. Still, Vedic religion is the main representative of Hindu beliefs. So in this forum I tend to follow that understanding. I am aware of Hindu belief diversity, read my posts above, I insisted on that. But, not every belief is a religion. You may identify as Hindu, but it would be helpful to give us a hint, how do you differ from atheists or agnostics. Why not an atheist, but Hindu? Main point is that Hindu is not a Vedic term. It is a foreign designation for beliefs across the river Sindhu. I am accepting that modern convention, but to be strict, cults and superstition are not even worth mentioning.

.. still it remains that Hinduism is a revealed religion.
That again is one view. Does not go for all people.

Yes, we all know that, so what is the point of you saying it again? Rather, you should honor that specific belief being in line with a genuine Hindu thought. If you wish to talk about other beliefs and how they relate to our topic, go ahead.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. and in the world of theology Hinduism means something quite specific, a Vedic religion and it's offshoots. Still, Vedic religion is the main representative of Hindu beliefs. So in this forum I tend to follow that understanding. I am aware of Hindu belief diversity, read my posts above, I insisted on that. But, not every belief is a religion. You may identify as Hindu, but it would be helpful to give us a hint, how do you differ from atheists or agnostics. Why not an atheist, but Hindu? Main point is that Hindu is not a Vedic term. It is a foreign designation for beliefs across the river Sindhu. I am accepting that modern convention, but to be strict, cults and superstition are not even worth mentioning.

That is far from truth, Miodrag. There is nothing more unspecific than Hinduism. And Hinduism is not Vedic religion. Along with Vedic religion, there is a huge admixture of indigenous Hindu thought (Aryans were migrants to India). Do the main-line Hindus worship the Vedic Gods, Indra, Agni, Soma, Ashwins?

Agnostic say 'I do not know'. Hindus are hardly ever agnostic. For them, it is mostly yes but for some no also. Atheists will deny the existence of a universal substrate. I believe Brahman is the only thing that exists. Everything in the universe is constituted by Brahman. And Brahman is not God.

Well, did not the Vedas talk about 'Sapta-Sindhu'. Bactrians and Iranians made it into Hindu. Yeah, the foreigners need to define us, the natives don't. What problem you have with the designation 'Hindu' and What should it be replaced with? To term it as 'Sanatan Dhama' is a very recent phenomenon. Strict about what? Strict about the way you think Hinduism is? I am strict about what I think Brahman is. But as a Hindu I accept different views. 'Vipra bahudha vadanti'. My religion requires that.

Yes, we all know that, so what is the point of you saying it again? Rather, you should honor that specific belief being in line with a genuine Hindu thought. If you wish to talk about other beliefs and how they relate to our topic, go ahead.

What is the specific Hindu thought? I have already given examples from our scriptures that support my view-point. I do not say that if you do not say 'Aham Brahmasmi', then you are not a Hindu.

 

[Kirran]

For me, this equals blasphemy.

What does blasphemy mean to you, exactly?

 

[paarsurrey]

Well, this is a religious forum and in the world of theology Hinduism means something quite specific, a Vedic religion and it's offshoots. Still, Vedic religion is the main representative of Hindu beliefs. So in this forum I tend to follow that understanding. I am aware of Hindu belief diversity, read my posts above, I insisted on that. But, not every belief is a religion. You may identify as Hindu, but it would be helpful to give us a hint, how do you differ from atheists or agnostics. Why not an atheist, but Hindu? Main point is that Hindu is not a Vedic term. It is a foreign designation for beliefs across the river Sindhu. I am accepting that modern convention, but to be strict, cults and superstition are not even worth mentioning.

Yes, we all know that, so what is the point of you saying it again? Rather, you should honor that specific belief being in line with a genuine Hindu thought. If you wish to talk about other beliefs and how they relate to our topic, go ahead.

"But, not every belief is a religion."
I agree with one. Please
Regards

 

[Vinayaka]

What does blasphemy mean to you, exactly?

I'm curious too, as I hold no concept of blasphemy. Do you?

 

[paarsurrey]

Well, this is a religious forum and in the world of theology Hinduism means something quite specific, a Vedic religion and it's offshoots. Still, Vedic religion is the main representative of Hindu beliefs. So in this forum I tend to follow that understanding. I am aware of Hindu belief diversity, read my posts above, I insisted on that. But, not every belief is a religion. You may identify as Hindu, but it would be helpful to give us a hint, how do you differ from atheists or agnostics. Why not an atheist, but Hindu? Main point is that Hindu is not a Vedic term. It is a foreign designation for beliefs across the river Sindhu. I am accepting that modern convention, but to be strict, cults and superstition are not even worth mentioning.

Yes, we all know that, so what is the point of you saying it again? Rather, you should honor that specific belief being in line with a genuine Hindu thought. If you wish to talk about other beliefs and how they relate to our topic, go ahead.

"Hinduism means something quite specific, a Vedic religion and it's offshoots. Still, Vedic religion is the main representative of Hindu beliefs."

Very correct.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Well, this is a religious forum and in the world of theology Hinduism means something quite specific, a Vedic religion and it's offshoots. Still, Vedic religion is the main representative of Hindu beliefs. So in this forum I tend to follow that understanding. I am aware of Hindu belief diversity, read my posts above, I insisted on that. But, not every belief is a religion. You may identify as Hindu, but it would be helpful to give us a hint, how do you differ from atheists or agnostics. Why not an atheist, but Hindu? Main point is that Hindu is not a Vedic term. It is a foreign designation for beliefs across the river Sindhu. I am accepting that modern convention, but to be strict, cults and superstition are not even worth mentioning.

Yes, we all know that, so what is the point of you saying it again? Rather, you should honor that specific belief being in line with a genuine Hindu thought. If you wish to talk about other beliefs and how they relate to our topic, go ahead.

"Why not an atheist, but Hindu?"
One is right.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Well, this is a religious forum and in the world of theology Hinduism means something quite specific, a Vedic religion and it's offshoots. Still, Vedic religion is the main representative of Hindu beliefs. So in this forum I tend to follow that understanding. I am aware of Hindu belief diversity, read my posts above, I insisted on that. But, not every belief is a religion. You may identify as Hindu, but it would be helpful to give us a hint, how do you differ from atheists or agnostics. Why not an atheist, but Hindu? Main point is that Hindu is not a Vedic term. It is a foreign designation for beliefs across the river Sindhu. I am accepting that modern convention, but to be strict, cults and superstition are not even worth mentioning.

Yes, we all know that, so what is the point of you saying it again? Rather, you should honor that specific belief being in line with a genuine Hindu thought. If you wish to talk about other beliefs and how they relate to our topic, go ahead.

"It is a foreign designation for beliefs across the river Sindhu. I am accepting that modern convention, but to be strict, cults and superstition are not even worth mentioning."

A valid point.
Regards

 

[Jainarayan]

"Hinduism means something quite specific, a Vedic religion and it's offshoots. Still, Vedic religion is the main representative of Hindu beliefs."

Very correct.
Regards

Very wrong.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What does blasphemy mean to you, exactly?

Creation of new Gods or claiming messages from God like in Abrahamic religions.
"Bhagwan Shiva unke muhn se bolte hain". Why? If Lord Shiva has to say something then he would himself say so. Does he not have a mouth, and we, ears?
It is a direct connection to God in Hinduism and not through any mediator.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"But, not every belief is a religion." I agree with one.

We have a saying in Hindi which I suppose you understand - 'Chor chor mausere bhai' (one thief is a cousin to the other). You are supporting Miodrag post because Miodrag's post supports your contention. Can I ask why every belief is not a religion? You have one, others may have their beliefs.

"Hinduism means something quite specific, a Vedic religion and it's offshoots. Still, Vedic religion is the main representative of Hindu beliefs." Very correct.
"Why not an atheist, but Hindu?" Very correct.'
"It is a foreign designation for beliefs across the river Sindhu. I am accepting that modern convention, but to be strict, cults and superstition are not even worth mentioning." A valid point.

Now, would Ahmadiyyas decide what is correct or valid in Hinduism?
Miodrag, you have some excellent support from our Ahmadiyya friend here.

 

[Vinayaka]

Creation of new Gods or claiming messages from God like in Abrahamic religions.
"Bhagwan Shiva unke muhn se bolte hain". Why? If Lord Shiva has to say something then he would himself say so. Does he not have a mouth, and we, ears?
It is a direct connection to God in Hinduism and not through any mediator.

Not the general usage than.

blasphemy definition - Google Search

 

[Aupmanyav]

Should that worry me?

 

[ajay0]

They consider their founder as Lord Brahma. .

Brahma is not considered as God here but a deity who worships Shiva.

"God (Shiva) is considered to be an eternal soul, a personality like human souls, but the Supreme one (Paramatma) and "knowledgeful". His purpose is to awaken humanity and restore harmony, giving power through the Brahma Kumaris' practise of Raja Yoga, eliminating evil and negativity. He is not the creator of matter which is itself considered to be eternal. He speaks through the mouth of Dada Lekhraj.
Brahma Kumaris - Conservapedia

For me, this equals blasphemy.I am an atheist but I am also a Hindu. I do not say anything that is not there in our scriptures. I am an advaitist and for me nothing other than Brahman exists. All this talk of Gods speaking through a human is absurd and not Hinduism.Hindu teachers do not claim Godly status. To do so is charlatanry.

You speak of advaita but completely deviates from the proper teachings in this regard. And I have seen that you had been cautioned on this by the forum members yet you still hold on to your own position which has no basis on facts. .

"God (Shiva) is considered to be an eternal soul, a personality like human souls, but the Supreme one (Paramatma) and "knowledgeful". His purpose is to awaken humanity and restore harmony, giving power through the Brahma Kumaris' practise of Raja Yoga, eliminating evil and negativity. He is not the creator of matter which is itself considered to be eternal. He speaks through the mouth of Dada Lekhraj.
Brahma Kumaris - Conservapedia

For me, this equals blasphemy.I am an atheist but I am also a Hindu. I do not say anything that is not there in our scriptures. I am an advaitist and for me nothing other than Brahman exists. All this talk of Gods speaking through a human is absurd and not Hinduism.Hindu teachers do not claim Godly status. To do so is charlatanry.

Atheism is considered blasphemy itself in orthodox hinduism, so I was hoping that an atheist like you would show empathy for a new sect or at least be tolerant of it.

All this talk of Gods speaking through a human is absurd and not Hinduism.Hindu teachers do not claim Godly status. To do so is charlatanry.

If Krishna can be a charioteer for Arjuna surely God can speak through a human as well. Even Krishna and Buddha were considered as charlatans at their times.

The said Brahma (Dada Lekhraj) do not claim Godly status, but is just an instrument for Shiva.

 

[ajay0]

You are not correct here. Orthodox Hinduism has no problem with atheism. Why otherwise would they say 'Brahman is one and there is no second'? Why would they say 'Ayamatma Brahman' or 'So'ham' or 'Aham Brahmasmi' or 'Brahma veda Brahmaiva bhavati'? Why should Chandogya say 'Tat twamasi'? If you are that, then where is the space for a God? Read the Nasadiya Sukta again. 'Gods are later than the production of the world' - IMHO, very rightly and daringly said more than 3,000 years ago. There are more RigVedic hymns like that. Nasadiya is not the only one. I am a very orthodox Hindu, that is why I do not accept the new-fangled Gods.

Brahman as pure consciousness is there in everything, but if a publicly proclaimed atheist tries to enter a temple, I doubt whether the brahmins would grant him or her permission.

Say to any brahmin or priest of a well-established temple that you are an atheist and then try to enter it and you will find the position of orthodox hinduism in this regard.

Your perspective of Brahman as electrical energy is also incorrect as the vedas proclaim Brahman as pure consciousness.

If Brahman is indeed electrical energy, then the easiest way to connect with Brahman would be to get an electric shock, imo, not meditation.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Just like I am engaging you here, I will engage the brahmin and his superior (Mathadheesh) in a debate and gain entry to the temple for being a pure orthodox Hindu.

I don't have to connect to Brahman, I am myself Brahman. 'Ayamatma Brahman'. People afraid of a shock should not connect with me. I really shock hard.

 

[ajay0]

Just like I am engaging you here, I will engage the brahmin and his superior (Mathadheesh) in a debate and gain entry to the temple for being a pure orthodox Hindu.

I wish you best of luck. Do tell us the results after the debate is over on whether you have gained entry or not.