Jesus Loves Me

[Abram]

no one.
no one singlehandedly did anything, this is a result of a combination of preexisting ethnic tension, years of oppression under Saddam, a pourly planned military campaign and the infiltaration of terrorists and Baathist loyalists into the insurgent fighting.

to put this at the hands of Bush alone would be irresponsible.
this is one big screw up and EVERYONE failed, and the Iraqi people are suffering.


and for the record i am no Bush supporter.

Thank You:clap

The US could have sit back and become the child that was picked on in school. It's our freedom we stand to protect. What if Bush hadnt had attacked? Then they attacked us again on our soil. Then we would be watching a film of american children being killed. Still saying, I didnt vote for Bush, he should have protected our country. We just love to complain to complain.

 

[jewscout]

Thank You:clap

The US could have sit back and become the child that was picked on in school. It's our freedom we stand to protect. What if Bush hadnt had attacked? Then they attacked us again on our soil. Then we would be watching a film of american children being killed. Still saying, I didnt vote for Bush, he should have protected our country. We just love to complain to complain.

ummm that's not my point at all:sarcastic
Iraq did nothing to threaten us at all, they were completely broken.

my point was the problems in Iraq are not the sole fault of W.
this was just one muck up waiting to happen.
the US going in just made things worse.

but then if we are going to say that Saddam was a great administrator who kept the peace, perhaps i should get up on the Bimah at shul and thank Hitler for keeping Germany's streets clean this Shabbat:sarcastic
because it's the same thing.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

...no one singlehandedly did anything, this is a result of a combination of preexisting ethnic tension, years of oppression under Saddam, a pourly planned military campaign and the infiltaration of terrorists and Baathist loyalists into the insurgent fighting...

Super Duper Frubals for a Super Duper Point from Super Duper Mod. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

The main difference between atrocities committed during Saddam's regime and those since the US invasion of 2003 is that the latter ones are being broadcast into our living rooms and computers on a daily basis.

It would be nice if we could focus on 'cleaning up the mess' instead of pointing fingers of blame, but pointing IS what some people do best.

 

[ashai]

http://peacetakescourage.cf.huffingtonpost.com/animations/wwjd.html

Ushta Dakota

the Pics are sick almosrt as sick as ignoring that the 99.99% of these children are the victims of the terrorists and not Bush. It also ignores the over 500,000 men , women and children butchered by Sadam b why because there are no pics. or because you cwannot blame them on Bush!:verymad:

Sadam gassed 50000 kurds in ONE DAY! And you dare imply Bush is the author of the Mayhem? That is the lowest of the low in political ploys!:banghead3

And moderators since when is this item suited for a religious debate?

Ashai

 

[ashai]

Which man, singlehandedly, brought about the current state of existence in Iraq?

SADAM HUSSEIN!!!!! :verymad: :banghead3
Ashai

 

[ashai]

And, thank you for understanding why I had to post this.

There is no possible understanding of manipulating children's suffering to make a political point it! It is despicable!!!!!:banghead3 :banghead3 :banghead3

 

[ashai]

I get tired of the US being Superman for the world.....there are plenty of horrible dictators out there who make life miserable for their people. Should we fly in and try to rescue everyone? There was no major terroist threat in Iraq then,....there is now however. And I really can't stand the false motivation for starting the war.

I have purposely stayed out of the threads about the Iraq war.....those that voted for Bush will defend him. Those of us that didn't will criticize. It's just the way it goes and not worth debating to me.

Ushta Buttercup

That is not the point! we can all disagree or agree with going into Iraq that is one issue. But to imply this monstrousity , to use the suffering of children to make a political point is sick!:verymad:

it is also the height of hypocrisy and one sidedness, considering that Saddam killed hundreds of thousands and no word is said about him! And it is even more hypocritical considering that the odds are that 99.99% of the children in the photos were injured by the terrorist swho bomb their own people to achieve their perverted poltical goals which, if achieved, will bring more misery , oppression and terror!:banghead3 :banghead3
Ushta Te
Ashai

 

[literal visionary]

I do disagree strongly with the whole war in Iraq. And not one defense of it that I've heard in the last 3 years has changed my mind.

why? iraq in twenty years therell be schools and churches of different relions mcdonalds....
less people sawing eachothers heads of with little knifes,
the iraqi war is one of the least bloody wars, I think in history
war isn't great but at least there will be positive things afterwards

I think the biggest proof that saddam had nasty stuff in his closet, was that he wouldn't let anyone come in and inspect everything,
i dont understand why he didn't I think he was getting a little nutty....

plus they haven't found actual things but they have found bits and pieces to make stuff and 1/2 made stuff,

Besides I think its immoral for western countries let dictators torture whole nations

 

[literal visionary]

the US going in just made things worse.

you cant get much worse than total oppression

 

[ashai]

you cant get much worse than total oppression

Ushta literal

:clap :clap :clap
Ashai

 

[Buttercup]

Ushta Buttercup

That is not the point! we can all disagree or agree with going into Iraq that is one issue. But to imply this monstrousity , to use the suffering of children to make a political point is sick!:verymad:

If you would have calmly purused my first post, you would have read....'there are two sides to every story'. It's obvious this video was meant to incite...It didn't incite me. Looks like it did you however. I was not fooled. I was the one that first claimed that car bombs are what hurt these children, not Bush. Read it again.

And of course it goes without saying that using injured children to push a political agenda is wrong.

I am well aware of Sadaam's monstrocities...this OP was not about that however.

 

[Buttercup]

why?

I disagree with the motivations for starting the war.

There will probably be civil war for who knows how long and Iraq will continue to be a training camp for terrorists.

Our presence will be in Iraq for at least a decade more.

We will lose many more American lives and Iraqi lives during that time.

It will cost multi billions of dollars

Of course I am against dictators. But, we can't police the entire world. Would you like to go into North Korea now? How about Iran? Should I set up a list of other countries with less than savory governments so that you can sign up for service in a military branch of your choice? Are you interested in enlisting?

I'm all for helping out the world....but we need to be extremely careful when we enter into a war situation. Vietnam should have taught us that. You just never know what's going to happen. The Shock and Awe campaign at the start of the war was supposed to get us in and out of there quickly. Obviously it didn't.

 

[ashai]

If you would have calmly purused my first post, you would have read....'there are two sides to every story'. It's obvious this video was meant to incite...It didn't incite me. Looks like it did you however. I was not fooled. I was the one that first claimed that car bombs are what hurt these children, not Bush. Read it again.

And of course it goes without saying that using injured children to push a political agenda is wrong.

I am well aware of Sadaam's monstrocities...this OP was not about that however.

Ushta Buttercup

I read your post I was addressing the part about the US not being Superman. What i meant is that the person ( I have other choice words to give her:banghead3 ) who started the post , was not saying anything about the US being Superman or the world's policeman, etc. That as I said its a different point, from the point of the thread!!!! My reply to you was restricted to that and that alone. I know you do not endorse the methods of the poster anymore than I do, regardlless of our personal opinions on the war or Bush!:bow: If you did not understand, I am sorry

Ushta te
Ashai

 

[DakotaGypsy]

SADAM HUSSEIN!!!!! :verymad: :banghead3
Ashai

Am I to understand that Saddam Hussein has the power to orchestrate all this present-day chaos in Iraq from his prison cell?

I am sorry, but I cannot credit him with such superhuman powers.

 

[DakotaGypsy]

Ushta Buttercup

That is not the point! we can all disagree or agree with going into Iraq that is one issue. But to imply this monstrousity , to use the suffering of children to make a political point is sick!:verymad:

it is also the height of hypocrisy and one sidedness, considering that Saddam killed hundreds of thousands and no word is said about him! And it is even more hypocritical considering that the odds are that 99.99% of the children in the photos were injured by the terrorist swho bomb their own people to achieve their perverted poltical goals which, if achieved, will bring more misery , oppression and terror!:banghead3 :banghead3
Ushta Te
Ashai

Am I delusional, then, when I see on my TV that Saddam Hussein is being tried in a courtroom for his heinous deeds? This is not really happening?

If this is so, then what is reality? Is there any reality then?

 

[jewscout]

you cant get much worse than total oppression

ok let me try this again,

ok folks a little quiz...what do the Austrio-Hungarian Empire, Yugoslavia, and Iraq all have in common? They are all states made up of preexisting different ethnic and religious groups ruled over by a single group or person, usually in the form of a dictator or emperor. Now what happened in Austria-Hungary and Yugoslavia when these leaders either A) became weakened or B) were gone completely.
Answer, they broke apart, often violently in revolution, and in the case of Yugoslavia you had attempts at mass genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Iraq had one maniac murdering people, now we have hundreds of maniacs murdering people
i'm not saying that Saddam should have stayed in power, what i'm saying is that this violence was probably inevitable given the situation. Once Saddam fell or died and if no one took up that power vacuum this fighting was going to happen.

our presense there just gives terrorists and factional groups more reason to murder.

that is what i am saying...but apparently no one is understanding that.:sarcastic

 

[Buttercup]

that is what i am saying...but apparently no one is understanding that.:sarcastic

I get it Jewscout. :hug: