Jesus necessary?

[syo]

In Orthodox christianity, Jesus is the Son. The Son is Logos, God's holy wisdom. When Father created us mortals, it's through Jesus which all of us creations are united together with us and the Father. Jesus is the connecting force. We have object A and object B. What is the relation between these two objects? The answer is Jesus. What is the way to the Father? Jesus is. Everything moves in the name of Jesus. And Jesus is the world's only true God according to Orthodox. That is why the Creed says god's ONLY son.

Now, why is the God a Trinity?

Because a non trinitarian God is impossible.

The Father creates. But the Father DOESN'T change. So he needs something that can change. So he gives birth to the Son, who connects all.

The Father gives life. but if he gave life of his own he would become less. So he gives life from the Holy Spirit.

And so a Trinity God is a true God.

 

[George-ananda]

I am a believer in Jesus as a great spiritual master and teacher but to put that much theological emphasis on one short lived historical figure is just too much overcomplicated theology for my sense of reason.

 

[syo]

I am a believer in Jesus as a great spiritual master and teacher but to put that much theological emphasis on one short lived historical figure is just too much overcomplicated theology for my sense of reason.

I try to understand the Son of the holy trinity. This is what I understood about Jesus as God.

 

[Trackdayguy]

In Orthodox christianity, Jesus is the Son. The Son is Logos, God's holy wisdom. When Father created us mortals, it's through Jesus which all of us creations are united together with us and the Father. Jesus is the connecting force. We have object A and object B. What is the relation between these two objects? The answer is Jesus. What is the way to the Father? Jesus is. Everything moves in the name of Jesus. And Jesus is the world's only true God according to Orthodox. That is why the Creed says god's ONLY son.

Now, why is the God a Trinity?

Because a non trinitarian God is impossible.

The Father creates. But the Father DOESN'T change. So he needs something that can change. So he gives birth to the Son, who connects all.

The Father gives life. but if he gave life of his own he would become less. So he gives life from the Holy Spirit.

And so a Trinity God is a true God.

I used to believe that at one time...

 

[syo]

I used to believe that at one time...

What has changed?

 

[Nakosis]

In Orthodox christianity, Jesus is the Son. The Son is Logos, God's holy wisdom. When Father created us mortals, it's through Jesus which all of us creations are united together with us and the Father. Jesus is the connecting force. We have object A and object B. What is the relation between these two objects? The answer is Jesus. What is the way to the Father? Jesus is. Everything moves in the name of Jesus. And Jesus is the world's only true God according to Orthodox. That is why the Creed says god's ONLY son.

Now, why is the God a Trinity?

Because a non trinitarian God is impossible.

The Father creates. But the Father DOESN'T change. So he needs something that can change. So he gives birth to the Son, who connects all.

The Father gives life. but if he gave life of his own he would become less. So he gives life from the Holy Spirit.

And so a Trinity God is a true God.

The idea of the logos goes far beyond the hand wave given to it by most of Christianity.

Of this Word's being forever do men prove to be uncomprehending, both before they hear and once they have heard it. For although all things happen according to this Word they are like the unexperienced experiencing words and deeds such as I explain when I distinguish each thing according to its nature and declare how it is. Other men are unaware of what they do when they are awake just as they are forgetful of what they do when they are asleep.

https://www.iep.utm.edu/heraclit/

 

[Trackdayguy]

What has changed?

The lights came on for me, although it took 10 years.

1. Once you dont buy into the myth of original sin you need anyone to die to save you from the consequences of somethings that doesn't exist.
2. Hell is myth
3. The Bible was never meant to be read literally

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

Is Jesus the only way to Heaven?
Question: "Is Jesus the only way to Heaven?"
Answer: Yes, Jesus is the only way to heaven. Such an exclusive statement may confuse, surprise, or even offend, but it is true nonetheless. The Bible teaches that there is no other way to salvation than through Jesus Christ. Jesus Himself says in John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” He is not a way, as in one of many; He is the way, as in the one and only. No one, regardless of reputation, achievement, special knowledge, or personal holiness, can come to God the Father except through Jesus.

Jesus is the only way to heaven for several reasons. Jesus was “chosen by God” to be the Savior (1 Peter 2:4). Jesus is the only One to have come down from heaven and returned there (John 3:13). He is the only person to have lived a perfect human life (Hebrews 4:15). He is the only sacrifice for sin (1 John 2:2; Hebrews 10:26). He alone fulfilled the Law and the Prophets (Matthew 5:17). He is the only man to have conquered death forever (Hebrews 2:14–15). He is the only Mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5). He is the only man whom God has “exalted . . . to the highest place” (Philippians 2:9).
Jesus spoke of Himself as the only way to heaven in several places besides John 14:6. He presented Himself as the object of faith in Matthew 7:21–27. He said His words are life (John 6:63). He promised that those who believe in Him will have eternal life (John 3:14–15). He is the gate of the sheep (John 10:7); the bread of life (John 6:35); and the resurrection (John 11:25). No one else can rightly claim those titles.
The apostles’ preaching focused on the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus. Peter, speaking to the Sanhedrin, clearly proclaimed Jesus as the only way to heaven: “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). Paul, speaking to the synagogue in Antioch, singled out Jesus as the Savior: “I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin” (Acts 13:38–39). John, writing to the church at large, specifies the name of Christ as the basis of our forgiveness: “I am writing to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name” (1 John 2:12). No one but Jesus can forgive sin.
Eternal life in heaven is made possible only through Christ. Jesus prayed, “Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent” (John 17:3). To receive God’s free gift of salvation, we must look to Jesus and Jesus alone. We must trust in Jesus’ death on the cross as our payment for sin and in His resurrection. “This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe” (Romans 3:22).
At one point in Jesus’ ministry, many of the crowd were turning their backs on Him and leaving in hopes of finding another savior. Jesus asked the Twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?” (John 6:67, ESV). Peter’s reply is exactly right: “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God” (John 6:68–69, ESV). May we all share Peter’s faith that eternal life resides only in Jesus Christ.
Have you made a decision for Christ because of what you have read here? If so, please click on the "I have accepted Christ today" button below.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In Orthodox christianity, Jesus is the Son. The Son is Logos, God's holy wisdom. When Father created us mortals, it's through Jesus which all of us creations are united together with us and the Father. Jesus is the connecting force. We have object A and object B. What is the relation between these two objects? The answer is Jesus. What is the way to the Father? Jesus is. Everything moves in the name of Jesus. And Jesus is the world's only true God according to Orthodox. That is why the Creed says god's ONLY son......

I find Jesus did Not believe himself to be his own God, but God's Son - John 10:36.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.
Jesus, in Scripture, is God's 'only-begotten' Son.
In other words, before anything else was created in heaven, pre-human heavenly Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God according to Revelation 3:14 B.
So, only God is Father(Life Giver) as Creator. Only God was before the beginning as per Psalms 90:2.
That means Jesus was Not before the beginning as his God was before the beginning of any creation.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The lights came on for me, although it took 10 years.
1. Once you dont buy into the myth of original sin you need anyone to die to save you from the consequences of somethings that doesn't exist.
2. Hell is myth..........

1.) The last time I looked around I saw the consequences of sin because 'death' is the price tag sin pays.
In other words, if you can stop sinning you would Not die. Sin exists so that is why death exists.
Since we can Not resurrect oneself or another then we do need someone to save us from enemy death.
Save us by resurrecting us back to life. In Scripture, Jesus can and will resurrect the dead - Revelation 1:18.

2.) I find there are two (2) hells: The Bible's hell, and a 'religious-myth hell teaching' being taught as Scripture.
Jesus taught sleep (Not pain) in death according to John 11:11-14.
The day righteous Jesus died Jesus went to the Bible's hell as per Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
That means Jesus believed while in biblical hell he would be in a sleep-like state.
Jesus knew that sleeping condition of the dead as taught at Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4.
King Solomon, known for his godly wisdom, wrote at Ecclesiastes 9:5 the dead know nothing.

When the word Gehenna was translated into King James English it was translated as hell fire.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed forever Not burning forever.
So, translating Gehenna as everlasting fire wrongly put the flames in 'biblical hell' which were never there.
Besides the 'Bible's hell' ( stone-cold temporary grave ) comes to a final end as per Revelation 20:13-14.
Please notice that after everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up ' out of hell ( meaning resurrected out of hell ) then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell/ grave.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I try to understand the Son of the holy trinity. This is what I understood about Jesus as God.

However, does Jesus understand himself to be his own God ______
I find the resurrected heavenly Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.
In Greek grammar rules a neuter can be addressed as a masculine gender although remaining a neuter "it".
God's spirit is a neuter according to Numbers 11:17 and Numbers 11:25 as "it".
Even in English we can refer to a car or a ship as a ' she ' when they always remain a neuter "it".
King Solomon, known for having godly wisdom, wrote at Ecclesiastes 12:7 about God's spirit "it".
God's spirit was in Job's nose - Job 27:3. So, surely No person was in Job's nostrils.
So, the triune god or trinity is Not a biblical teaching, but a teachings outside of Scripture just taught as Scripture.

 

[metis]

Question: "Is Jesus the only way to Heaven?"
Answer: Yes, Jesus is the only way to heaven. Such an exclusive statement may confuse, surprise, or even offend, but it is true nonetheless. The Bible teaches that there is no other way to salvation than through Jesus Christ. Jesus Himself says in John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” He is not a way, as in one of many; He is the way, as in the one and only. No one, regardless of reputation, achievement, special knowledge, or personal holiness, can come to God the Father except through Jesus.

The Bible is not an objective source, plus Jesus said "judge ye not...".

IMO, the idea that God would condemn those whom even have never heard of Jesus implies that God is a genocidal maniac, therefore I simply do not believe that. If one truly believes in God, maybe leave this all up to Him to sort things out.

 

[Ellen Brown]

You should not be surprised that I would disagree with your stance, however I support your right to it. I did not believe in the Trinity when I first read about it, over 45 years ago. For me the Ten Commandments prohibit there being a Trinity. "I am the Lord, your God, and you shall have no God before me". I see Jesus the Christ as his son and he does the will of the father, as scripture says. The Holy Spirit has always been a bit muddled to me, so I just assume that when I feel guided, it is the Holy Spirit. That's the best I can do.

I am a total and complete outsider, and in my dotage, it seems that the denominations are no more trustworthy than the distance I can throw them.

For me, Micah 6:8 explains it the best, and I see no need to embellish it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In Orthodox christianity, Jesus is the Son. The Son is Logos, God's holy wisdom. When Father created us mortals, it's through Jesus which all of us creations are united together with us and the Father. Jesus is the connecting force. We have object A and object B. What is the relation between these two objects? The answer is Jesus. What is the way to the Father? Jesus is. Everything moves in the name of Jesus. And Jesus is the world's only true God according to Orthodox. That is why the Creed says god's ONLY son.

Now, why is the God a Trinity?

Because a non trinitarian God is impossible.

The Father creates. But the Father DOESN'T change. So he needs something that can change. So he gives birth to the Son, who connects all.

The Father gives life. but if he gave life of his own he would become less. So he gives life from the Holy Spirit.

And so a Trinity God is a true God.

I'm not following. So you are saying god creating a human to save the world is impossible that he has to be himself in the flesh in order to save the world?

That would mean the other prophets are useless since only god saves, and god was not Moses, so Moses accomplished nothing for gods people.

Also. Isn't that counterproductive of jesus saying he is an intermediary to his father? The trinity takes out john 3:16 because an incarnation is still god. So god is not an intermediary to god. Incarnations just makes one flesh. His nature doesn't change.

A human needs to be the medium; because, only humans can relate to other humans. God incarnations cannot.

I also remember back in the olden days people were killed for worshiping Jesus. The king at the time was killing people for worshiping statues and other idols. Can you imagine what would happen if he found out people were worshiping humans?

It's like we were worshiping idols in Pagan times. Then we went to humanism. We got into spiritualism taking away idols. Then we went back to idols. Now we are worshiping humans.


I know. This is a bit off but the gist is true given my studies. Jesus would need to be human to be a savior. He can't be god. That doesn't make sense.

Also, I'm not following how god, creator of heavens and earth, cannot create a special human to save the world. Humans put a lot of limitations on god.

 

[Brickjectivity]

@syo "Jesus necessary?"

To me the term 'Orthodox' is a bold claim to orthodoxy, as are the terms 'Protestant', 'Roman Catholic' and many others. It causes confusion. When someone starts out saying 'In Orthodox Christianity' I could take it either to mean an assertion that this is the original way or that it is the way things are done within a sect. The same is implied by Protestant and by Roman Catholic.

In Orthodox christianity, Jesus is the Son.

This sounds cryptic.

The Son is Logos, God's holy wisdom.

This sounds explicit.

When Father created us mortals, it's through Jesus which all of us creations are united together with us and the Father. Jesus is the connecting force.

Cryptic again.

Jesus is the connecting force. We have object A and object B. What is the relation between these two objects? The answer is Jesus.

I feel personally that this is orthodox but that it is often lost and overlooked. It is at best arcane knowledge in modern times. No one ever told me this, and no one ever does. You are the only other soul to have breathed it in my experience, and I am over forty years old. My experience to the contrary is that its normal to be careful who takes communion, to be cautious about what people believe and say before you consider them connected, to judge their doctrine by books and words. It seems in practice that Jesus is not a glue, not a connecting force but merely a participant and intermediary, someone who prays and acts like a liason, lawyer, judge or advisor. Jesus seems like a super angel to most and is even thought by some to be the arch-angel Gabriel, leader of an army of angelic beings who do battle in another dimension. The idea of Jesus as a connecting force is alien to most churches I'd say.

What is the way to the Father? Jesus is.

This cryptic, and as a result its easily misconstrued. I can think of few statements that have been more misunderstood and that have led to as much damage. Here are the words that have sunk many ships, and all along it could have been used for good. We have the Son that is Israel, then we have the ideal of Israel which is another Son, and that is the Son which is generalized and corresponds to wisdom itself filling all the world and creating a lasting world of peace. There are all kinds of cryptic words describing this, and I hate this cryptic language though it is not meant to be cryptic but meditative. I also do not like the word orthodox nor claims of orthodoxy, but people keep talking about it like it is a useful word. I think people can stray very far from orthodoxy in an attempt to be orthodox while those who make no such effort can achieve it. What is the point of claiming it I wonder? I think its political.

Everything moves in the name of Jesus. And Jesus is the world's only true God according to Orthodox. That is why the Creed says god's ONLY son.

And if Jesus is wisdom it explains why the early churches go looking for wisdom everywhere incorporating pagan festivals and ideas and studying philosophy. It explains why we have Easter at least.

Now, why is the God a Trinity?

That is supremely complicated but thoroughly developed by people investigating philosophy. I think it is mostly a useless concept for lay people and that politicians use it to divide and confuse. Therefore it is hated and distrusted by many Christians. How do you get people who love one another to listen to you? Cry wolf, and make the wolf be something that only educated people can understand.

 

[Ellen Brown]

It is sad that we spend all this time trying to solve unimportant Issues. Why not just love God and each other?

 

[syo]

To me the term 'Orthodox' is a bold claim to orthodoxy, as are the terms 'Protestant', 'Roman Catholic' and many others. It causes confusion. When someone starts out saying 'In Orthodox Christianity' I could take it either to mean an assertion that this is the original way or that it is the way things are done within a sect. The same is implied by Protestant and by Roman Catholic.

I mean the eastern orthodox denomination.

 

[syo]

It is sad that we spend all this time trying to solve unimportant Issues. Why not just love God and each other?

yes, love is what matters. now I feel stupid...

 

[pearl]

“chosen by God” to be the Savior

Of all. I don't understand the arrogance of those who insist they know who is and is not going to be 'saved'. True there is no salvation outside of Christ, there is no 'outside' of Christ for "it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour."

 

[wellwisher]

In Orthodox christianity, Jesus is the Son. The Son is Logos, God's holy wisdom. When Father created us mortals, it's through Jesus which all of us creations are united together with us and the Father. Jesus is the connecting force. We have object A and object B. What is the relation between these two objects? The answer is Jesus. What is the way to the Father? Jesus is. Everything moves in the name of Jesus. And Jesus is the world's only true God according to Orthodox. That is why the Creed says god's ONLY son.

Now, why is the God a Trinity?

Because a non trinitarian God is impossible.

The Father creates. But the Father DOESN'T change. So he needs something that can change. So he gives birth to the Son, who connects all.

The Father gives life. but if he gave life of his own he would become less. So he gives life from the Holy Spirit.

And so a Trinity God is a true God.

The fall from paradise was due to Eve and Adam eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil; original sin. This tree is symbolic of law. Law teaches us right from wrong or good from evil. Once you know law, you also know the connected sin. Sin is connected to law. If you break the law you will sin. Law teaches us how to sin by pointing it out. For example, if some kids learn to get high with shave cream a law is created to make it taboo. This law teaches children how to get hight, who never would think of this on their own; copy cat.

Sin is only imputed where there is a law. For example, a few years back, in New York City, it was not a sin to drink a large soft drink. After the Mayor made a law saying this was taboo, it became a sin. Sin became imputed as soon as the law was made official. If do away with the law, the sin also disappears. Marijuana is no longer a sin in many places. The power of sin is the law. You get rid of law you get rid of sin.

Jesus is about forgiveness of sins. If you do the math, forgiveness of sins ends up with the same result, as a doing away with the law. In both cases sin not imputed. Christ by forgiving sin, neuters the law. For example, the Mayor of NYC says you sinned by drinking the large drink. Jesus forgives you, trumping the sin defined by the Mayor. It is now like there is no law for you.

This forgiveness math brings humans back to before the fall from paradise, when people could act without rules or laws, other than natural instinct; New Adam. Jesus is necessary since he represents the future where law becomes obsolete and humans become natural again; Holy Spirit and the Tree of lIfe.

The Holy Spirit represents truth and impulse that can at times conflict with law and consensus thinking. Consensus thinking can be more temporal and be defined by law and sin. It was sin to be a witch because of the law. With forgiveness of sin neutering the law, one can safely depart from group think and law, to seek a higher truth; Children of the Promise.

In terms of the trinity, the Holy Spirit will be written in human hearts. The net affect is humans are part of the trinity, with the Holy Spirit anchored in human hearts and God. However, to accept this connection to the trinity, one has to be free from sin and law. We cannot depend on humans to get rid of law and return to natural. We depend on Jesus and forgiveness of sin to reach the same end game.

The Spirit of Truth can take one to the future. As an example, forgiveness of sin would have neutered the marijuana laws when they were in affect since 1925. As time went on and the law changed, one has not changed, due to forgiveness, but was in the future from the beginning; eternal life.