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Jesus never says to worship 'Yahweh'

Avoice1C

the means are the ends
The following is from the Complete Jewish Bible and Strong's concordance for e-Sword
It supports the assertion that we should worship YHWH which is the Hebraism mentioned in Strong's definition below. Discussion welcome.

Spiritual Blessings in Christ


Eph 1:3 Praised be Adonai(G2316), Father of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, who in the Messiah has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in heaven.

G2316

θεός

theos

theh'-os

Of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with G3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively a magistrate; by Hebraism very: - X exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].

Total KJV occurrences: 1343
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
There are not 2 thrones mentioned at Revelation 3:21- he said even as I overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. So that is just one throne..

In the King James translation at Rev. 3:21 it reads: To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne even as I also overcame and am set down with my Father in His throne.
In other words, To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me (Jesus) on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on His throne.
So, one throne (Jesus') and one throne (his Father's) equals = two (2) thrones.
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
In the King James translation at Rev. 3:21 it reads: To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne even as I also overcame and am set down with my Father in His throne.
In other words, To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me (Jesus) on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on His throne.
So, one throne (Jesus') and one throne (his Father's) equals = two (2) thrones.

He is sitting on the Father's throne so the Father's throne is his throne. We will just have to disagree on this point.

But since you believe in more than one God. Please answer the rest of what I had asked.
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
So, do you believe, that the only form, that Abba the father has, is Jesus?

why did you skip all my questions?

We know that God is a Spirit that fills heaven and earth. It's impossible for that body to contain all his Spirit. We also know the Spirit of God is invisible. We also know that the Messiah was the image of the invisible God. So once God took on that image, then you would be seeing him. Hence his statement, he that hath seen me hath seen the Father.

Also I did find a little more on the throne. Revelation 22:3 the throne (singular) of God and of the lamb shall be in it: and his servants shall serve him. Once again it is the eternal Spirit and the fleshly body he took on being referred to. It's not 2 separate persons.

The Greek word kai could have also been translated as even.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
why did you skip all my questions?

We know that God is a Spirit that fills heaven and earth. It's impossible for that body to contain all his Spirit. We also know the Spirit of God is invisible. We also know that the Messiah was the image of the invisible God. So once God took on that image, then you would be seeing him. Hence his statement, he that hath seen me hath seen the Father.

Also I did find a little more on the throne. Revelation 22:3 the throne (singular) of God and of the lamb shall be in it: and his servants shall serve him. Once again it is the eternal Spirit and the fleshly body he took on being referred to. It's not 2 separate persons.

The Greek word kai could have also been translated as even.
The invisible or no form aspect of how people might percieve God, isn't Christian, or even Biblical, to interpret as God or Abba, having no form.
That is why I said that you seem to be following in part, quasi judaism, because, in Judaism, it has that concept of no form God.
Scripture definitely has God, Abba, with form. So, you have to be interpreting that, in some manner, that isn't going to work with Biblical theology, or God belief.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
We know that God is a Spirit that fills heaven and earth. It's impossible for that body to contain all his Spirit. We also know the Spirit of God is invisible. We also know that the Messiah was the image of the invisible God. So once God took on that image, then you would be seeing him. Hence his statement, he that hath seen me hath seen the Father.

Image here means what is percieved, Jesus being literally, there. Jesus is the image of the non percieved God, that doesn't mean that Jesus is the Abba, or that the Abba has no form.
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
The invisible or no form aspect of how people might percieve God, isn't Christian, or even Biblical, to interpret as God or Abba, having no form.
That is why I said that you seem to be following in part, quasi judaism, because, in Judaism, it has that concept of no form God.
Scripture definitely has God, Abba, with form. So, you have to be interpreting that, in some manner, that isn't going to work with Biblical theology, or God belief.


Ridiculous argument - it says in NT that he is the image of the invisible God
 

Avoice1C

the means are the ends
It is also Translated God. The Prime i.e. ultimate being. We don't know if Jesus never said "Yahweh" but he may not have for the simple reason that the Jews had begun altering the commandment to mean use the name at all. The commandment says not to use 'Yahweh' in vain I.e. for a useless purpose.
 

Avoice1C

the means are the ends
The Jews and their fathers died. Their souls remained in Hades (the grave) until the truth was ministered to them.
John:
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

The Jews were saved by their faith in the law. Not the truth. Once Jesus ministered to them in Hades, they arose and appeared to many (at the crucifixion). Until then, they were dead and "Yahweh" couldn't even save them.

John 6:58
This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Which is why I don't eat the bread (knowledge) of the OT. It's the false gospel Paul spoke of in Galatians 1.

The gospel is the gospel. The Bible the Bible. Orthodox believe the Bible and are many. The Christ follows the Gospel of Christ.
What does your post have to do with what I posted? "Yahweh" wouldn't save them until they who had worshiped legalistic traditions had been taught the Gospel. They had died in the legalistic traditions they had been taught while they walked the earth in the first place. The Gospel of Jesus is the truth of the Hebrew scriptures. That is why he had such a large following in his fleshly life.
 

Avoice1C

the means are the ends
Because God (El Elyon) is the Source of reality, and Yeshua is an Arch Angel (Elohim) who sits right of the Throne.

Avatars have free choice, they have human bodies with a part of the divine within them.
In Buddhism. My experience with avatars is as an image used to represent the user. That is the context in which I took your comment.

This is the same belief Judaism had after the Babylonian Exile; yet as Yeshua pointed out they didn't know his father (Matthew 11:27); which means it is not YHVH (Lord To Be), it is EL Elyon who is the God Most High (Luke 1:32).

Plus God doesn't have a personal name, as in which language is that name right; God is all names, all sounds, as it is the Source of reality.
Moses knew Yeshua's Father. The legalistic Jews did not and those who, after Solomon, certainly didn't except for Josiah. YHWH is an acceptable representation of Yeshua's Father's name. El Elyon is a title. God is certainly the source of all we know - reality if you will.


In my opinion.
And you have my opinion:)
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Jesus never says to worship 'Yahweh'

This word is presumably translated as 'Lord'

In the English Bible, but with so many christians claiming that they should be worshipping 'Yahweh', or that they worship 'Yahweh', where does Jesus ever say to worship 'Yahweh '?

Good, because I don't.
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
What does your post have to do with what I posted? "Yahweh" wouldn't save them until they who had worshiped legalistic traditions had been taught the Gospel. They had died in the legalistic traditions they had been taught while they walked the earth in the first place. The Gospel of Jesus is the truth of the Hebrew scriptures. That is why he had such a large following in his fleshly life.
If you are orthodox doctrine, you will see orthodox doctrines. The Spirit said NOT to follow the way of the Jews. Only Jesus is truth. Jesus said the way of the Jews it led to death. Follow what you will.

John 6, 8 and 10.
 

Avoice1C

the means are the ends
Man does not live by bread alone but, by every word of God. Jesus said the way of the Jews of his day was death. Legalism had replaced the commandments and the teachings of Moses. Jesus quoted the Hebrew scriptures and lived by them. I worry about doctrine, especially orthodox doctrine. It uses LORD instead of YHWH just like the Jews of Jesus' day on this earth. He taught that the law and the prophets were summed up in the following Love your neighbor as you love yourself. I'll follow the Bible, thank you.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
I am wondering how people would get in touch with you without knowing your personal name.
I work with people with dementia. I've learned to answer to anything, including "hey, girl!" :)

What does spelling or even pronouncing a name differently ( each language has its own pronunciation ) matter.
homonyms and homophones are easy to look up

even a single comma can make all the difference in the world:

"I'm ready to eat, Granny."
"I'm ready to eat Granny."

I mean, I never really enjoyed English/literature/grammar class, but I still paid attention.

If angels fell from heaven, how better will heaven be for you and me.
EXACTLY. If wars can happen in heaven, clearly it's not all it's cracked up to be.

He tried to get them to see that robbing widows of their homes was not of God.
He never tells them to give full civil rights to women either. Martha's trying to do the dishes or whatever and Jesus doesn't get up and help. Tells me all I need to know. :)

These priests were using their priesthood to profit themselves with power and money.
It's more involved than that, since the Romans and Syrians and others were heavily involved in Temple politics. Ten bucks says that if the Temple were being run by "real" Jews, Jesus wouldn't have thrown his little tantrum.

Jesus was speaking very seriously when he said the majority of priest (and scribes who came out to test him) were worshiping the devil.
And yet I don't see Jesus helping anyone much outside of a few "photo ops", which he told other people to avoid, because ostentatious displays were their "own reward" and you wouldn't get any extra credit in heaven for it.

Jesus preached the Torah. Only those who were not obeying it got riled up.
The problem is that various characters assume the scriptures are all we need to live, but I note the transient nature of Hebrew/Israelite/Jewish society when it tries to be a racially and theologically pure state. It fails miserably every time. The bible is an ironic cautionary tale of how NOT to run a country.

The Roman crackdowns happened after Jesus' death and resurrection.
It might behoove you to read about the politics of the era.

The destruction of the Temple was because the Jews rose up against Rome about 70 C.E. Drama of their own making with the sins I mentioned above.
The Romans were looking for cash and treasure. The end.

God sent Jesus to bring them back to Him.
Wouldn't be necessary if God wanted to do His job.

That they prefered to get riled and persecute him instead of listening to his words and obeying him and his Father speaks of their weak stupidity not God's
How did Jesus make anyone's lives better? His followers end up dead if not tortured and dead and it is nearly wiped out before the Romans legalize it for political perks.

Have you bothered to read thru the Greek scriptures. I have and see no problems in them.
Why must Jesus come back if he fixed things the first time?

Am I supposed to be impressed that God gets out of His promise not to kill everyone with water by killing people with fire?

The NT claims no one is righteous except there are several people described as such.

The NT claims Satan deceived Eve and yet Satan isn't in the story and the serpent was the only honest one there.

The NT claims only through Jesus' death and resurrection can God forgive us and yet both God and Jesus forgive people all the time way before that occurs.

The NT claims Jews murdered all their prophets when that actually comes from a list published around the same century as Jesus and it's not historical at all.

Satan's lies were about God's intent as Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness and confrontation of Satan shows in spades.
No, he baits Jesus to see if he'll choose egotistical things. He doesn't at the time but his life story shows that the gists of those temptations were done. He didn't make magic bread while Satan was there but made magic wine and food elsewhere. He didn't claim kingship while Satan watched but claimed to be a king later. He didn't jump off a cliff but calmed storms. He used his powers thematically just as Satan foretold/baited. Baiting people isn't lying.

Moses killed an Egyptian who was abusing a Jewish slave. He didn't stay to be a religious terrorist.
The Egyptian law would've told Moses to go to the Grand Vizier if not Pharaoh himself to talk about it. We have archaeological evidence of strikes in Egypt, so the concept of getting compensation for being screwed is there. Moses was kicked out for being a vigilante murderer.

He didn't stay to be a religious terrorist. If you are speaking about the disasters that befell Egypt, all Moses did was predict them and teach the Jews how to be left alone by God.
And none of that generation save for Joshua and maybe less than a handful of other people actually lived through a 40 year walk that should've taken less than a couple of weeks max.

He was saying "Put God first" and family second and leave if they cannot live by the law of love.
He didn't love his family or he'd have been nicer to them. He can't even call his own family "Mother" and "Brothers". He makes it a point to ignore or insult them at every turn. He is a hypocrite.

However, my Bible says the kid was dead.
Your bible was written by people who couldn't tell the difference between coma and death, as we see in a couple of Jesus' stories. No one had an EKG or EEG lying around to confirm. I would rather go to an Egyptian, Roman, or Greek medical facility/temple and risk the primitive science than to trust the blatant ignorance of the biblical characters. The biblical characters were doing incantations while civilized people had medicine and surgeries.

Surprise wakes a person up pretty effectively. They were cognizant enough to speak of putting up tents for the three of them.
Jesus frequently rebukes the apostles for not understanding him, and yet you want me to take them at their word?

I find No one was resurrected before God resurrected Jesus.
No one was returned to life before Jesus? Want to think through that some more?

The reason the name was changed, is the Jews didn't want to speak his name. I think it is because they said his name was too holy to pronounce, and didn't want to take it in vain.
And it helps hide the fact pre-monotheistic Judaism existed.

Please give me some scriptures showing the different names for God you are talking about. You do know there is a difference between a name and a title - right?
To be fair, a lot of names in the bible, especially deity names, are just translations of titles. Even Satan isn't a name, just a job title. As is Baal, El, Yahweh, etc. You could worship Yahweh and Baal and El because at the time either one was just a title and could be referring to the same entity or multiple ones.

Man does not live by bread alone but, by every word of God.
You have a pile of bread in one corner and a pile of bibles in the other. Which one will help you avoid starvation?
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
Man does not live by bread alone but, by every word of God. Jesus said the way of the Jews of his day was death. Legalism had replaced the commandments and the teachings of Moses. Jesus quoted the Hebrew scriptures and lived by them. I worry about doctrine, especially orthodox doctrine. It uses LORD instead of YHWH just like the Jews of Jesus' day on this earth. He taught that the law and the prophets were summed up in the following Love your neighbor as you love yourself. I'll follow the Bible, thank you.
Jesus said to hate your fleshly mother and father for your spiritual mother and father. That breaks Moses commandment. Jesus never acknowledged the sabbath as Moses taught. Breaking another Moses law.

Jesus fulfilled the law with his two commandments of love.

Hating mother and father wasn't as we despise them as spirits. We see them the same as any one (love neighbor). But our true mother and father is the Holy Spirit and the Father. This is the gospel message. Not an OT belief.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Any thoughts about Jesus' words at John 4:23-24 to worship the Father_____
Only the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) applies to the Father.
KJV at Psalms 110 mentions two (2) LORD/Lord's:
* The LORD in all Upper-Case letters stands for the LORD God where the Tetragrammaton stands.
* The Lord in some lower-case letters stands for the Lord Jesus and the Tetragrammaton is Not used.
^

'Yahweh' isn't a rendition of Jehovah. Jehovah denotes the concept that the name, has vowels, however you can't just use some other name, for Jehovah.
^

Whatever. I won't be bound by legalism.
That is what I wrote, in context.
When JHVH is in the text, you get four letters, not 'Yahweh'.
Jehovah is the indication of the vowels in the four letter name, which is different from Yahweh, since Yahweh is a pronunciation that is different from indicating the vowels in the original written word.
 
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