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Jesus raised Himself from the dead

U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Fallen Prophet said:
You're making a huge claim on only one word.
Click to expand...
One word in English 'spirit ',but with two meanings:
A 'spirit person' as invisible-to-us angels. ( they are not considers as an 'it ' but as males )
Whereas, man's spirit is a neuter no-gender "IT' and Not a person - Ecclesiastes 12:7 B.
 
F

Fallen Prophet

Well-Known Member
URAVIP2ME said:
One word in English 'spirit ',but with two meanings:
A 'spirit person' as invisible-to-us angels. ( they are not considers as an 'it ' but as males )
Whereas, man's spirit is a neuter no-gender "IT' and Not a person - Ecclesiastes 12:7 B.
Click to expand...
How do you reconcile this belief with the Lord's parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus?

Two spirits of men - active after their deaths - being referred to as "he", "him" and "you" there.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Fallen Prophet said:
How do you reconcile this belief with the Lord's parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus?
Two spirits of men - active after their deaths - being referred to as "he", "him" and "you" there.
Click to expand...

Many wonder abut the un-named Rich Man and the named man Lazarus.
First of all, we need to remember that Luke chapter 16 is about illustrations or parable stories.
Jesus would Not address the crowds without using illustrations - Matthew 13:34.
Notice how Luke 16:1 starts out abut a 'rich man and a steward'....( they are Not real persons but in story form )
The rich man of Luke 16:19 is the composite rich man or the Pharisees of Luke 16:14-15.
In other words, Jesus parable illustration is addresses to those greedy money-loving Pharisees.
Lazarus was a common name back there, so the man named Lazarus stood for the common people.
The common people or humble people who were fed spiritual crumbs from the Pharisees' table - vss 20-21.

On the other hand, the man named Lazarus at John 11:11-14 is about a real person who died.
That real dead person was 'sound asleep in death' until Jesus brought him back to life - Psalms 115:17
Jesus was giving us a sample preview about the coming future resurrection - Acts of the Apostles 24:15
 
T

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
LightofTruth said:
I posted some of the many verses which say that God raised Jesus from the dead. Trinitarians always ignore those verses and play on the one where Jesus says he would raise himself.

The only way Jesus, who was dead, could raise himself from the dead, is if he had the promise of his Father that if he laid down his life, he could take it back again. Which he did.
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There is another way. The God of the Old Testament - the one and only God, wrapped himself in flesh and shed his blood for our sins. That is what I believe. So the Messiah was God manifest in the flesh. God (the Father) is a Spirit. The Son is the body he took on. The Father was dwelling in the Son (the body). So it was the Father speaking when the Messiah said destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.

Just like the Messiah told his followers - If you have SEEN me, you have SEEN the Father. John 14:8-9

I would like to add I am NOT a trinitarian. To me the trinity is a false doctrine.
 
L

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
TrueBeliever37 said:
There is another way. The God of the Old Testament - the one and only God, wrapped himself in flesh and shed his blood for our sins. That is what I believe. So the Messiah was God manifest in the flesh. God (the Father) is a Spirit. The Son is the body he took on. The Father was dwelling in the Son (the body). So it was the Father speaking when the Messiah said destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.

Just like the Messiah told his followers - If you have SEEN me, you have SEEN the Father. John 14:8-9

I would like to add I am NOT a trinitarian. To me the trinity is a false doctrine.
Click to expand...
Are you saying the Son is a body the Father took on Himself?
If so, who was it that commanded the son to lay down his life?
 
T

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
LightofTruth said:
Are you saying the Son is a body the Father took on Himself?
If so, who was it that commanded the son to lay down his life?
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There is only one God. YHWH made himself a body to dwell in and sacrifice for the sins of the world. The eternal Spirit (YHWH) is the Father , and the Son was the flesh. The distinction between the Father and the Son is flesh and Spirit. It wasn't two different persons as many believe. He shed his own blood willingly out of love for us.

If you take the position that the Father is God, and the Son is a different person that is also God, then you have a problem, because that is multiple Gods.

But, at the same time, there has to be some distinction between the Father and the Son. God is an eternal Spirit that can't die. That is why the Son (or the body) was flesh. So that blood could be shed for our sins. Is it greater love to lay down your own life or to send someone else to do it?
 
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cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
you dont seem to understand , he cant do that
TrueBeliever37 said:
There is only one God. YHWH made himself a body to dwell in and sacrifice for the sins of the world. The eternal Spirit (YHWH) is the Father , and the Son was the flesh. The distinction between the Father and the Son is flesh and Spirit. It wasn't two different persons as many believe. He shed his own blood willingly out of love for us.

If you take the position that the Father is God, and the Son is a different person that is also God, then you have a problem, because that is multiple Gods.

But, at the same time, there has to be some distinction between the Father and the Son. God is an eternal Spirit that can't die. That is why the Son (or the body) was flesh. So that blood could be shed for our sins. Is it greater love to lay down your own life or to send someone else to do it?
Click to expand...
you dont seem to understand , he cant do that .
 
Colt

Colt

Well-Known Member
The Universal Father can be likened to our grandfather. The Creator Son is the Father of our world. Under our Creator Son are lessor sons of divine origin like Satan. Down the chain of relative imperfection to humans, the last link of descending sons of God.
 
L

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
TrueBeliever37 said:
There is only one God. YHWH made himself a body to dwell in and sacrifice for the sins of the world. The eternal Spirit (YHWH) is the Father , and the Son was the flesh. The distinction between the Father and the Son is flesh and Spirit. It wasn't two different persons as many believe. He shed his own blood willingly out of love for us.

If you take the position that the Father is God, and the Son is a different person that is also God, then you have a problem, because that is multiple Gods.

But, at the same time, there has to be some distinction between the Father and the Son. God is an eternal Spirit that can't die. That is why the Son (or the body) was flesh. So that blood could be shed for our sins. Is it greater love to lay down your own life or to send someone else to do it?
Click to expand...
There's nothing complicated about it. The son has come in the name of the Father.
 
Y

Yahcubs777

Active Member
Fool said:
laying down one's life isn't a call for sacrifice.

the spirit is towards love and compassion not pain and suffering.


being murdered isn't a sacrifice. committing suicide by soldier isn't a sacrifice. laying asides one's self serving nature for one of serving all as self is not a sacrifice to death. it is a service to life.


it is a state of spirit(mind) in how the will of god, love, is to be served. is it in service to self or in service to all as self?
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I had to respond to you, because you seem to be clued on, unlike most ive encountered. Truly, Jesus His Pre-Eminence was not sacrificed by GOD as they believe, HE was a sacrifice of the occult. Thats why in John 11:47-52, when the chief pharisees met to discuss things, they agreed there the story they would tell, and they would sacrifice HIM for their nation. This was not spoken of GOD, but by their god who had the audacity to tell Jesus His Pre-Eminence, that he owns the earth in Matthew 4.

These are the same people that feared the people concerning John the Baptist, so they did not answer the question Jesus His Pre-Eminence asked them.

These are the same people HE called: brood of vipers; a wicked and adulterous generation, thou hypocrites! And so on. So how is it now that they spoke from GOD? Nonsense.

The occult, planned the murder, then put it into action. They are the ones that do human sacrifice as a ritual. They sacrificed HIM to their god (small g), then for fear of the people that believed on HIM, they made up the story that HE was sacrfiiced for their good! They just advanced the sacrificial system installed by Aaron, which he learned from Jethro, to now say that HE was sacrificed as the Lamb that would take the sins of the world. LIES!

And then when there were killing of babies, would it not have been more accurate to murder HIM as a baby? that is a lamb... How Christians can celebrate the death of thieir savior and thank GOD for it is beyond me, yet they claim they are sanctified by HIS Words. A wicked and adulterous Generation indeed.

Jesus His Pre-Eminence said to them: Ye kill Prophets sent to you to do you service. HE told them that HE would leave their house unto them desolate! And when HE asked Apostle Peter and co; Who do they say I am? They answered: Some say Elijah, some say Jeremiah .... They literally murdered a man they thought to be a Prophet, as they did not know HIS true identity.

And just to clarify, the Son of GOD, is Father Adam. Luke 3:38
 
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Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Teritos said:
John 2:19-22
Jesus answered and said to them: Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. But he spoke about the temple of his body. Now when he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.

According to the Bible, only Jesus' body died, but the spirit within him never died and cannot die. Because all things exist through him, if his spirit would die, the whole world would perish.
What do you think about it?
Click to expand...

I believe Jesus was speaking more as God when He said that. In truth a dead Jesus could not resurrect Himself but God has no trouble doing it.

I believe what is created can't cease t exist unless it is uncreated.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
danieldemol said:
I think it fits with a Jesus who believed He wasn't annihilated at death. But I think you are probably relying on other scriptures to say that all things exist through Jesus, because it appears to not say that in the text you quoted.
Click to expand...

I believe by "wasn't annihilated" you mean the body was still intact. I believe God could have raised Him even if the body had been burned to ash.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Pilgrim Soldier said:
Jesus is God and God is a Spirit and His spirit has no beginning and no end. We have a soul which can never cease to exist, it will live on into all eternity after our body dies.
Click to expand...

I believe our spirits can cease to exist because God created all things and what He has created He can uncreate.
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
Yahcubs777 said:
I had to respond to you, because you seem to be clued on, unlike most ive encountered. Truly, Jesus His Pre-Eminence was not sacrificed by GOD as they believe, HE was a sacrifice of the occult. Thats why in John 11:47-52, when the chief pharisees met to discuss things, they agreed there the story they would tell, and they would sacrifice HIM for their nation. This was not spoken of GOD, but by their god who had the audacity to tell Jesus His Pre-Eminence, that he owns the earth in Matthew 4.

These are the same people that feared the people concerning John the Baptist, so they did not answer the question Jesus His Pre-Eminence asked them.

These are the same people HE called: brood of vipers; a wicked and adulterous generation, thou hypocrites! And so on. So how is it now that they spoke from GOD? Nonsense.

The occult, planned the murder, then put it into action. They are the ones that do human sacrifice as a ritual. They sacrificed HIM to their god (small g), then for fear of the people that believed on HIM, they made up the story that HE was sacrfiiced for their good! They just advanced the sacrificial system installed by Aaron, which he learned from Jethro, to now say that HE was sacrificed as the Lamb that would take the sins of the world. LIES!

And then when there were killing of babies, would it not have been more accurate to murder HIM as a baby? that is a lamb... How Christians can celebrate the death of thieir savior and thank GOD for it is beyond me, yet they claim they are sanctified by HIS Words. A wicked and adulterous Generation indeed.

Jesus His Pre-Eminence said to them: Ye kill Prophets sent to you to do you service. HE told them that HE would leave their house unto them desolate! And when HE asked Apostle Peter and co; Who do they say I am? They answered: Some say Elijah, some say Jeremiah .... They literally murdered a man they thought to be a Prophet, as they did not know HIS true identity.

And just to clarify, the Son of GOD, is Father Adam. Luke 3:38
Click to expand...
still stuck on that Adam thing
 
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