Jesus Resurrection

[Tammie]

Jollybear, I know that this is a loaded question, it may even take some time for you to answer this. I am not here to argue with you or anyone. I know the Bible pretty well....so if I am wrong in something as long as it can be proven by scripture in God's Word, I want to be corrected and learn. If one just gives their opinion aside from the Scriptures, it has no value to me. It's like the word ASSUME - take it apart and it makes an *** out of U and ME.

 

[Jollybear]

Jollybear - what are your thoughts on our resurrection?

On OUR future resurrection?

Well, first i know some folk think Jesus resurrection was symbolic or a spiritual resurrection, but i dont read it like that. I hear the new testament ringing tha it was literal. It also had spiritual overtones, granted, but it also had a literal context too.

So, the bible says that we will rise LIKE jesus did. So, that would be a literal resurrection according to the bible.

Its hard to imagine, but thats what i think it teaches.

1 Corinthians 15 NLT

"12But tell me this—since we preach that Christ rose from the dead, why are some of you saying there will be no resurrection of the dead? 13For if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised either. 14And if Christ has not been raised, then all our preaching is useless, and your faith is useless. 15And we apostles would all be lying about God—for we have said that God raised Christ from the grave. But that can’t be true if there is no resurrection of the dead. 16And if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised. 17And if Christ has not been raised, then your faith is useless and you are still guilty of your sins."

The rest of the chapter goes into the type of body we will have at the resurrection. A spiritual one. One like Jesus had when he rose.

 

[lukethethird]

On OUR future resurrection?

Well, first i know some folk think Jesus resurrection was symbolic or a spiritual resurrection, but i dont read it like that. I hear the new testament ringing tha it was literal. It also had spiritual overtones, granted, but it also had a literal context too.

So, the bible says that we will rise LIKE jesus did. So, that would be a literal resurrection according to the bible.

Its hard to imagine, but thats what i think it teaches.

1 Corinthians 15 NLT

"12But tell me this—since we preach that Christ rose from the dead, why are some of you saying there will be no resurrection of the dead? 13For if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised either. 14And if Christ has not been raised, then all our preaching is useless, and your faith is useless. 15And we apostles would all be lying about God—for we have said that God raised Christ from the grave. But that can’t be true if there is no resurrection of the dead. 16And if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised. 17And if Christ has not been raised, then your faith is useless and you are still guilty of your sins."

The rest of the chapter goes into the type of body we will have at the resurrection. A spiritual one. One like Jesus had when he rose.

Well, isn't that special.

 

[Jollybear]

Well, isn't that special.

Whats special?

 

[Tammie]

Jollybear said:
On OUR future resurrection?

Well, first i know some folk think Jesus resurrection was symbolic or a spiritual resurrection, but i dont read it like that. I hear the new testament ringing tha t it was literal. It also had spiritual overtones, granted, but it also had a literal context too.

So, the bible says that we will rise LIKE jesus did. So, that would be a literal resurrection according to the bible.

Its hard to imagine, but thats what i think it teaches.

So far, this is what I believe when I read chapter 15 in 1 Corinthians
KJV Verses 16-19
For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Do you believe that there is two resurrections, and that there are differences between them as well as a distance in time between them?

 

[Jollybear]

Jollybear said:
On OUR future resurrection?

Well, first i know some folk think Jesus resurrection was symbolic or a spiritual resurrection, but i dont read it like that. I hear the new testament ringing tha t it was literal. It also had spiritual overtones, granted, but it also had a literal context too.

So, the bible says that we will rise LIKE jesus did. So, that would be a literal resurrection according to the bible.

Its hard to imagine, but thats what i think it teaches.

So far, this is what I believe when I read chapter 15 in 1 Corinthians
KJV Verses 16-19
For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Do you believe that there is two resurrections, and that there are differences between them as well as a distance in time between them?

Revelation 20:4-5

"They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.)6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years."

So, yes, theres 2 resurrections. A thousand years apart.

The first being the rightious and just, the second the unrightious and wicked.

 

[Tammie]

Jollybear said: Revelation 20:4-5

"They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.)6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years."

So, yes, theres 2 resurrections. A thousand years apart.

The first being the rightious and just, the second the unrightious and wicked.

I am very impressed with your knowledge in scripture -
Acts 24:15 - And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
John 5:28-29 -
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Another question... If we are to reign with Christ for a thousand years...which means that we were in the first resurrection, where do we reign with him...in Heaven or Earth?

 

[Jollybear]

Jollybear said: Revelation 20:4-5

"They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.)6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years."

So, yes, theres 2 resurrections. A thousand years apart.

The first being the rightious and just, the second the unrightious and wicked.

I am very impressed with your knowledge in scripture -
Acts 24:15 - And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
John 5:28-29 -
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Another question... If we are to reign with Christ for a thousand years...which means that we were in the first resurrection, where do we reign with him...in Heaven or Earth?

Revelation 5:10

"And you have caused them to become a Kingdom of priests for our God. And they will reign on the earth."

And mathew 6:10

"May your Kingdom come soon. May your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven."

And mathew 5:5

"God blesses those who are humble, for they will inherit the whole earth."

And logically, humans wer made for earth while angels wer made for heaven.

 

[Tammie]

Jollybear said: Revelation 5:10

"And you have caused them to become a Kingdom of priests for our God. And they will reign on the earth."

And mathew 6:10

"May your Kingdom come soon. May your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven."

And mathew 5:5

"God blesses those who are humble, for they will inherit the whole earth."

And logically, humans wer made for earth while angels wer made for heaven.

Now, I am more impressed than ever. Do you know how many people know the truth of this. Another scripture that tells us this is this same thing is...
Zechariah 14:4-5 & Verse 9 -
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Vs 9 - And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

For you to also say that humans were made for earth.....you are also showing that we do not go to heaven when we die. I was hoping that you knew this truth and it appears that you do.
John 3:13 - And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Acts 2:29 - Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:34 - For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand

So, let me pick your brain and ask you another question. Zechariah 14:4-5 follows 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 - this is the first resurrection. What is the difference between Christ Kingdom on this earth, and The Kingdom of God in the New Heaven and New Earth? Why the need for a New Heaven & New Earth?

Isaiah 65:17 - For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Revelation 21:1 - And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

[SpiritualisT]

The death and resurrection of Jesus in roughly 28 or 29 CE assertedby the Bible (many times) and by almost every living Christian. Yet there is not only no evidence that said resurrection ever occurred, but there is essentially no way to prove that somebody that died and came back to life over 2000 hrs ago.

The entire bible doesn't rely on historical evidence. The death and ressurection of Christ is a pagan ezoteric concept stolen and corrupted by jews who wrote the New Testament. In reality in pagan culture it wasn't about a phisycal ressurection, but a 'spiritual' one. You can find more informations about many thigs regarding Jesus and christianity here:
Exposing Christianity

 

[lukethethird]

Whats special?

"OUR future resurrection."

 

[Jollybear]

"OUR future resurrection."

Whats so special about that?

 

[Tammie]

Prometheus85 said: The death and resurrection of Jesus in roughly 28 or 29 CE assertedby the Bible (many times) and by almost every living Christian. Yet there is not only no evidence that said resurrection ever occurred, but there is essentially no way to prove that somebody that died and came back to life over 2000 hrs ago.

If you could ever proof that the Resurrection of Christ ever occurred, you could debunk Christianity all together. Your not the first person that tried to use this as the basis of not believing. All those that have tried to find the evidence that the resurrection never happened now believe. So, this could be a challenge for you. Give me proof that it did not occur. There were other resurrections that occurred to only give those that doubted a resurrection a better understanding.

As I said previously, if you can not show me in scripture that this is not true....your wasting my time. You only assuming!

 

[Tammie]

A correction needed for Prometheus 85: I meant to say that if you could proove that the resurrection of Christ Never occurred...

 

[Jollybear]

Now, I am more impressed than ever. Do you know how many people know the truth of this.

Lukethethird and joel and prometheus, they know about it, but they dont believe it. I think its because there a few fries short of a happy meal, lol!

For you to also say that humans were made for earth.....you are also showing that we do not go to heaven when we die. I was hoping that you knew this truth and it appears that you do.

Oh one second. You misunderstood me on that part. After we die, i do believe souls go to heaven or hell and its a temporary holding place before there reunited with there dead body at the resurrection. Then they remain on earth.

John 3:13

- And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The way i interpret this is that no one BEFORE Jesus rose from death and ascended to heaven.

Acts 2:29

- Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:34 - For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand

David was not resurrected to ascend to heaven. It dont mean he had no disembodied soul though.

But, ultimately, yea, the humans will be on earth.

So, let me pick your brain and ask you another question

. Zechariah 14:4-5 follows 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 - this is the first resurrection. What is the difference between Christ Kingdom on this earth, and The Kingdom of God in the New Heaven and New Earth? Why the need for a New Heaven & New Earth?

Isaiah 65:17 - For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Revelation 21:1 - And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Why the need for a new heaven and earth? The same reason we will need a new body. The current body and current earth and sky (heaven) waxes old and weakens and decays.

Revelation 21:4

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever."

And romans 8:21

"the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God's children in glorious freedom from death and decay."

So, the need for new earth is same reason for new body.

 

[Jollybear]

A correction needed for Prometheus 85: I meant to say that if you could proove that the resurrection of Christ Never occurred...

I dont know if your aware of this or not. Mayby you quote the others the other way because you like it more, if so, continue it.

But incase you dont know. This is how it works.

Ill make a sentence and show you.

[ q u o t e ]Bla bla bla bla[ / q u o t e ]

Do your quotes like that, but make no spaces.

It will come out like this >

bla bla bla bla

 

[Tammie]

Jollybear said:
Oh one second. You misunderstood me on that part. After we die, i do believe souls go to heaven or hell and its a temporary holding place before there reunited with there dead body at the resurrection. Then they remain on earth.

John 3:13
- And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
The way i interpret this is that no one BEFORE Jesus rose from death and ascended to heaven.

Acts 2:29
- Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:34 - For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand
David was not resurrected to ascend to heaven. It dont mean he had no disembodied soul though.

But, ultimately, yea, the humans will be on earth.

The problem that I have with other translations other than the King James Version, is that many translated versions have changed the whole text and the true meaning gets lost. Where in any scripture does it tell you that there is a holding tank...that we go to heaven first and meet up later back on earth?

For the soul - we are all living souls. Anything that has blood is a living soul. Why? because life is in the blood (Deuteronomy 12:23) In fact, all the creatures in the sea are living souls.

REVELATION 16:3 – And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
GENESIS 2:7 – And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
JOB 12:10 -In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.

Where in scripture does it say we go to heaven? If Hell did not mean the grave....why would their be a Lake of Fire for those that have been in a burning Hell? For that matter.....why would there be the need for judgment if they were already been judged by being in a burning Hell?

Revelation 20:12-14 -
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Please, if you can clarify this through scripture...I would be most appreciative.

 

[Tammie]

Why the need for a new heaven and earth? The same reason we will need a new body. The current body and current earth and sky (heaven) waxes old and weakens and decays.

Revelation 21:4

I can agree with that but I think there is more.

Revelation 12:7-9 -And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The heavens and the earth have been corrupted by Satan. The Lake of Fire will burn the whole heaven and whole earth.
JOB 14:12 –As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
2 PETER 3:10, 12 –(10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. (12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

ISAIAH 34:9 –And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.

MALACHI 4:1, Vs 3 – (1) For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. (Vs 3) And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[Tammie]

Jollybear, it has been a real pleasure to talk with you today. I will be signing off shortly, but will wait for your reply and research and get back with you as soon as possible.

 

[Jollybear]

The problem that I have with other translations other than the King James Version, is that many translated versions have changed the whole text and the true meaning gets lost. Where in any scripture does it tell you that there is a holding tank...that we go to heaven first and meet up later back on earth?

Philipians 1 is an example

"21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."

For the soul - we are all living souls. Anything that has blood is a living soul. Why? because life is in the blood (Deuteronomy 12:23) In fact, all the creatures in the sea are living souls.

REVELATION 16:3 – And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
GENESIS 2:7 – And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
JOB 12:10 -In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.

Mathew 10 says

"28“Don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

So here he distinguishes the soul from the body.

Where in scripture does it say we go to heaven? If Hell did not mean the grave....why would their be a Lake of Fire for those that have been in a burning Hell? For that matter.....why would there be the need for judgment if they were already been judged by being in a burning Hell?

Because the lake of fire is the second death, that means a place of total destruction where one becomes none existent. Hell where the souls reside is a temporary place until this final lake of fire.

Think of it like being in custody before apearing in court for final judgement.

Luke 16 talks about ritch man and lazarus. Ritch man was talking, in hell. Lazarus was talking in heaven.

Revelation 20:12-14

-
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Please, if you can clarify this through scripture...I would be most appreciative.

Sure...... right above.