Jesus reveals ban on LGBTs to LDS elder apostle Russell M. Nelson

[fantome profane]

Sometimes, when I come to the conclusion that further dialogue with someone will likely be unproductive, but don't want the person to think I'm just ignoring him, that's what I'll say.

So what do you say when you really want to tell someone to go **** themselves?

 

[Katzpur]

There is absolutely, positively no historical evidence that any Hebrews ever came to the American continent. There is absolutely no historical evidence that anything in the Book Of Mormon is true.

You know what? This thread is not about whether the Book of Mormon is true or not, so I'm just going to let my statement stand.

You forgot this "Jesus, in his own words, never condemns homosexuality".

No, I didn't forget. I already explained why I'm not going to join in the debate on homosexuality. It's out of respect for Prestor John, even though I disagree with him position. Besides, the vast majority of the people debating this topic already know how I feel.

And there is absolutely no evidence that Russell is not senile.

Uh, yes, there is plenty of evidence that he's not senile. You just don't like him so you're labeling him. You are the one calling him senile, but the fact that his opinion on this issue is different from yours is not evidence of senility. Your tactics are not cool, but if that's your style, there's probably nothing I can do to change it.

 

[Katzpur]

So what do you say when you really want to tell someone to go **** themselves?

On this forum, I just have to bite my tongue really, really hard. In real life, if I wanted to say it bad enough, I probably would. I'm pretty selective in using that phrase, though. The person really has to have it coming before I'd go that far. And nobody on this thread has even approached that point so far.

 

[Katzpur]

That is tooooo funny....LOL !

Wow! So Jehovah's Witnesses are into crude language that has to be edited out, huh? I'd genuinely surprised to see that.

 

[blue taylor]

You know what? This thread is not about whether the Book of Mormon is true or not, so I'm just going to let my statement stand.

No, I didn't forget. I already explained why I'm not going to join in the debate on homosexuality. It's out of respect for Prestor John, even though I disagree with him position. Besides, the vast majority of the people debating this topic already know how I feel.

Uh, yes, there is plenty of evidence that he's not senile. You just don't like him so you're labeling him. You are the one calling him senile, but the fact that his opinion on this issue is different from yours is not evidence of senility. Your tactics are not cool, but if that's your style, there's probably nothing I can do to change it.

"Jesus, in his own words, never condemns homosexuality". May peace and love your neighbor be upon you.

 

[Katzpur]

"Jesus, in his own words, never condemns homosexuality".

Well, I'm not absolutely convinced that every word Jesus ever said got recorded in the scriptures, but you're right that we have no actual record of His having said anything about homosexuality.

May peace and love your neighbor be upon you.

Thank you. You too.

 

[David1967]

I love this. I think this is very polite code for go **** yourself.

Or just maybe he really is being polite without any implied vulgarity.

 

[Prestor John]

It's the fact that society is leaving such things behind. Society is changing, and those that don't catch up will be left behind in the past. The LDS church isn't exactly a big one, and adhering to such views only serve to anchor them to the past. Each new generation is increasingly accepting of homosexuals, and it just may even be a total non-issue with the post-Millinial generations. Those who oppose homosexuality are largely and mostly a dying breed.

That's sad if its true.

However, it does fulfill prophecy concerning the end times.

 

[Prestor John]

Prestor John and I (both Mormons) are on opposite sides of this issue. I'm trying to stay out of the debate for one reason, and that's that I don't to end up having the two of us say things to one another that we'd both probably regret. I do want to respond to your post though, just to clear up two statements you made which are simply false.

1. Elder Russell Nelson is no more senile than he was at age 40, when he was an internationally renowned cardiothoracic surgeon. You really shouldn't assume that a person is "senile" just because he is in his nineties or believes differently than you do.

2. Mormonism doesn't teach that Native Americans are a remnant from a lost tribe of Jews. We believe that perhaps two dozen people of Hebrew descent migrated to the American continent roughly 2600 years ago. They were hardly part of a "lost tribe" and they intermarried extensively with the thousands of people who were already here, most having come over the Bering Strait.

It would really make you look a lot more intelligent if you didn't just throw in random negative statements that are inaccurate. Make your point based on facts, not opinions.

Well said.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's sad if its true.

However, it does fulfill prophecy concerning the end times.

Equality is never sad, people abandoning the ways of prejudice and discrimination is never sad, and the world will not come to an end.

 

[Prestor John]

There is absolutely, positively no historical evidence that any Hebrews ever came to the American continent. There is absolutely no historical evidence that anything in the Book Of Mormon is true. You forgot this "Jesus, in his own words, never condemns homosexuality". And there is absolutely no evidence that Russell is not senile.

There is also no evidence that contradicts the claim that a couple dozen Hebrews came to the American continent some 2,600 years ago.

The idea that there is "absolutely no historical evidence" for the Book of Mormon is premature and ridiculous when you consider that the geographic location where the events of the Book of Mormon most likely took place is covered by thick jungle and not even 1% of that area has ever been excavated.

Have you ever read the Book of Mormon? When you get around to it you should compare it to the English translation of the Popol Vuh, the Mayan Bible, and notice the striking similarities.

I would also recommend you read the book, "Mesoamerica and the Book of Mormon: Is this the Place?" by Dr. John L. Lund.

Your claim about what the Lord Jesus Christ said or did not say is based on the idea that the Bible is a record that miraculously somehow contains every single word spoken by Him. Also, you forget that the Law of Moses (the religious and cultural law followed by the Jews at the time of Christ) extensively condemns the practice of homosexuality.

Why would the Lord Jesus Christ need to condemn the practice of homosexuality when the Law of Moses already did that?

You also have absolutely no evidence of Elder Russell M. Nelson suffering from senility.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

 

[Prestor John]

Equality is never sad, people abandoning the ways of prejudice and discrimination is never sad, and the world will not come to an end.

You are so confused. This issue has nothing to do with prejudice or discrimination.

If any member of any religious organization lives contrary to and publicly denounces the teachings of said religious organization, that religious organization has the right to excommunicate that member.

It is very simple and if you actually believed in "equality" you would support the leaders of the LDS Church in their decision.

 

[Prestor John]

I love this. I think this is very polite code for go **** yourself.

I wouldn't have put it that way.

I think of it as a friendly reminder that we all have our own opinion and that we are going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Prestor John]

It's a very polite code for "someone else tells me what I should believe" and then - go **** yourself.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints teaches that all people can receive inspiration from our Father in Heaven through His Holy Spirit.

The LDS Church is built upon a foundation of members having first-hand experience that what they believe in and teach is true.

We invite all to come and learn and to find out for themselves.

 

[Prestor John]

You know what? This thread is not about whether the Book of Mormon is true or not, so I'm just going to let my statement stand.

No, I didn't forget. I already explained why I'm not going to join in the debate on homosexuality. It's out of respect for Prestor John, even though I disagree with him position. Besides, the vast majority of the people debating this topic already know how I feel.

Uh, yes, there is plenty of evidence that he's not senile. You just don't like him so you're labeling him. You are the one calling him senile, but the fact that his opinion on this issue is different from yours is not evidence of senility. Your tactics are not cool, but if that's your style, there's probably nothing I can do to change it.

The more I think about it the more wrong I feel this is.

Everyone here is being denied your take on this issue because of me.

You agree with a large number of members and you have the right to speak.

I just won't respond to your comments directly or indirectly.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You are so confused. This issue has nothing to do with prejudice or discrimination.

If any member of any religious organization lives contrary to and publicly denounces the teachings of said religious organization, that religious organization has the right to excommunicate that member.

It is very simple and if you actually believed in "equality" you would support the leaders of the LDS Church in their decision.

Why should I ever support such a thing? You don't have to agree with or support everything to live in a functioning and healthy society. There is a saying, from Evelyn Beatrice Hall, that goes "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
Now, with that said, it seems that in the not-too-distant future it seems very possible that such intolerance, prejudice, and bigotry towards homosexuals will seem so outlandish it can be turned into a punch line, much like how Blazing Saddles turned racial prejudice into an hour-and-a-half long joke. You may not like hearing that, but it's the direction society is heading, and it is for the best.

 

[Katzpur]

The more I think about it the more wrong I feel this is.

Everyone here is being denied your take on this issue because of me.

You agree with a large number of members and you have the right to speak.

I just won't respond to your comments directly or indirectly.

No, it's not because of you; it's because of me -- because of a choice I made. Anyway, I've posted so much on this issue (most of it long before you ever joined RF) that people don't need to hear me repeat myself. At this point, that's about all I can do.

 

[JoStories]

No definitely not. Some are scammers, but not most. I assume the best of the current Pope. There is a difference with the LDS leaders, though, as I don't think there are other denominations that claim to revelation in the same manner or degree as they do. I don't think Catholics see the Pope and the Cardinals as a joint body that confer together and receive revelation together. I may be wrong.

I believe you are, from my studies in this area and other faiths. The Pope is seen as the fisherman of Christ. IOW, he is a direct connection to God through his elevation to the Popehood. the college of Cardinals are locked away in The Sistene Chapel and then are believed to be inspired by God to elect the one pope who is whom God wants. That is in essence, the same as what you are seeing with your Elders, more or less. Now, I am not Catholic, merely a doctorate level trained theologian but I do believe that the similarities are quite clear here.

 

[JoStories]

You are free to believe that, but as an Apostle in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints his words can be considered revelatory to the members of the LDS Church if he proclaims to have received direct communication from the Lord Jesus Christ.

However, it is difficult for you to say that it is merely his personal opinion when fourteen other men, who claim to be Apostles and Prophets, agree with him and also claim that what they share is direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is more than simple opinion to the LDS Church and it was presented as a unified statement of Church practice rather than opinion.

Again, you are free to believe what you will, just as I am free to believe what I would.

Yes, of course you are free to believe whatever you like. Here is the thing though. These men have an agenda. Have you never seen a group of men or women who got together and made some proclamation and then stated it was divine or some such? The KKK comes to mind as one easily thought of. These men had a reason for their proclamation. They wish to deny gay members rights to your Church and if that is what your Church wants, mores the power to you and them. But for someone outside your Church, it seems contrived and punitive. These men, who are not God, are condemning a group of people simply because they are born gay. What of those born with CP, or deformities, or maybe they got Hansen's Disease (leprosy) or something else you see as sinful. What then? Do you deny access to all of these people because they offend your view of what God is?

 

[fantome profane]

I wouldn't have put it that way.

I think of it as a friendly reminder that we all have our own opinion and that we are going to have to agree to disagree.

You know I am just joking with you right? (well mostly joking )