Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but throug

[Windwalker]

Martin, what is the difference in your life now, as compare to before you experienced all this ?

I know this question was asked of Martin, but I will answer for myself since you are curious about this question. Over 30 years ago I first experienced the Infinite in a moment of timelessness, experiencing what I find expressed well in the words of the Apostle Paul,

"For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."​

In that "moment" I saw beyond the world I was darkly embedded within into that which is Infinite Light. Following this a few days later All that IS opened to me through all thing, and through me to all things, from the depths of who we all are beyond comprehension. Truly the words "Rivers of Living Water", is indeed an apt description. Radiant Light, Life, Love emanating from all that is. Every molecule of air, every blade of grass, every face of every human, and yet I could see into their eyes the world inside their heads in which they imagined themselves to live, isolating and separating themselves from that which was themselves, unaware, unobservant of what is in every moment before us. The fullness of the Godhead, Spirit.

All that happened spontaneously when I was 18, prior to any religious training or membership whatsoever. My life was so deeply affected that that had been the core of my very mind and body for following 30 years of my life trying to apprehend this yet again, to know this, to unite with this in myself, following the path of religious instruction to "find it" again. That knowledge was the core of who I became and could not be shaken, constantly pulling me towards itself.

At this point now, through personal meditation practice I expose the Infinite daily, as Paul again says, "I die daily". It is a process of student and Teacher to "overcome the world", in that to learn to allow that Light to be known and living in us, as us, in all we do. The effects are to say the very least possible, transforming. I would have to fill pages to speak of that. To say it in the simplest terms: aware. Centered, grounded, unshaken, peaceable, compassion, mindful, faithful, connected, aware of what is in each moment, seeing that subtle light in any and all moments, knowing that presence of the Infinite. It is a process of growth from that Source from which all is, seeing beyond the veil of our flesh to that which is eternally Now, in the world, in us, into that Light of all Becoming. It is to become who we truly are.

 

[John Martin]

Martin, what is the difference in your life now, as compare to before you experienced all this ?

There is no external difference. The only difference is the inner attitude with which I do things. Before I had this experience I was the author of my actions now I say only God is the author of my actions. This is the only difference. There is a Zen saying, "Before Enlightenment chop wood carry water, after Enlightenment, chop wood carry water."

 

[Windwalker]

There is no external difference. The only difference is the inner attitude with which I do things. Before I had this experience I was the author of my actions now I say only God is the author of my actions. This is the only difference. There is a Zen saying, "Before Enlightenment chop wood carry water, after Enlightenment, chop wood carry water."

I like this. We posted one minute apart our respective responses. It is true as you say, that it is realized in every moment. In my practices now, I find that every moment is fulfilled in the simplest of actions, picking up sticks in the yard, helping a friend, walking down the street and hearing a bird in the world. But it is being awake to everything. From that awareness, who we are transforms and we live in peace, and become Peace in the world.

 

[chinu]

I know this question was asked of Martin, but I will answer for myself since you are curious about this question. Over 30 years ago I first experienced the Infinite in a moment of timelessness, experiencing what I find expressed well in the words of the Apostle Paul,

"For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."
​

In that "moment" I saw beyond the world I was darkly embedded within into that which is Infinite Light. Following this a few days later All that IS opened to me through all thing, and through me to all things, from the depths of who we all are beyond comprehension. Truly the words "Rivers of Living Water", is indeed an apt description. Radiant Light, Life, Love emanating from all that is. Every molecule of air, every blade of grass, every face of every human, and yet I could see into their eyes the world inside their heads in which they imagined themselves to live, isolating and separating themselves from that which was themselves, unaware, unobservant of what is in every moment before us. The fullness of the Godhead, Spirit.

All that happened spontaneously when I was 18, prior to any religious training or membership whatsoever. My life was so deeply affected that that had been the core of my very mind and body for following 30 years of my life trying to apprehend this yet again, to know this, to unite with this in myself, following the path of religious instruction to "find it" again. That knowledge was the core of who I became and could not be shaken, constantly pulling me towards itself.

At this point now, through personal meditation practice I expose the Infinite daily, as Paul again says, "I die daily". It is a process of student and Teacher to "overcome the world", in that to learn to allow that Light to be known and living in us, as us, in all we do. The effects are to say the very least possible, transforming. I would have to fill pages to speak of that. To say it in the simplest terms: aware. Centered, grounded, unshaken, peaceable, compassion, mindful, faithful, connected, aware of what is in each moment, seeing that subtle light in any and all moments, knowing that presence of the Infinite. It is a process of growth from that Source from which all is, seeing beyond the veil of our flesh to that which is eternally Now, in the world, in us, into that Light of all Becoming. It is to become who we truly are.

Windwalker, what is your current situation on all that, as compare to all that happened when you was 18 ?

 

[Windwalker]

Windwalker, what is your current situation on all that, as compare to all that happened when you was 18 ?

I did indicate that in my response. I have found that where I held that to be the pinochle, the highest, the peak experience of my entire life, I have found now that through daily meditation practice that is exposed every time, and that exposure is a process of growth through transformation into that Light. It's difficult to explain these things, but I can say the difference is the first experiences of this, back to back, when I was 18 was much more like suddenly having the veil pulled back that you were unaware there was even such a veil, and the absolute flood of what lay beyond that veil abruptly enter into your mind and soul and very being, laying your entire life in an instant of revelation before your eyes, and what lay beyond in a sliver of infinity within infinity, in an infinity beyond infinity, beyond, beyond, and beyond. Such an experience overwhelms your being with itself and you are dropped silent before it. And then to have it open from within you and flow out into all that is, is to experience yourself abruptly beyond who you were a second before, into who you Eternally are. Such an experience overwhelms.

The difference now is that within the meditation path, this is much more controlled. You can allow, or withdraw. There is much more a controlled opening when you are ready. There are things that happen, doors you move through, chambers or rooms or spaces, thresholds, depths of the divine. It is very difficult to describe this except to those who have shared in this. Each stage, each room, each depth is deeper and deeper, stiller and stiller, where symbols of the divine dissolve into Awakened mind. Presence, knowledge, insight, stillness, depth, etc.

You are deliberately putting yourself before this, and open yourself to this as you "die daily", as you lay your ego down, offering yourself to God. Not seeking to possess, not seeking to experience, but seeking to become. You shed your flesh and expose your soul. As the Buddha said, "Without fear go". It can overwhelm, but through Grace, through faith, you fall into God and are raised up.

That's the difference between a spontaneous peak experience like this, and the deliberate exposing of yourself to that in meditation.

 

[chinu]

I did indicate that in my response. I have found that where I held that to be the pinochle, the highest, the peak experience of my entire life, I have found now that through daily meditation practice that is exposed every time, and that exposure is a process of growth through transformation into that Light. It's difficult to explain these things, but I can say the difference is the first experiences of this, back to back, when I was 18 was much more like suddenly having the veil pulled back that you were unaware there was even such a veil, and the absolute flood of what lay beyond that veil abruptly enter into your mind and soul and very being, laying your entire life in an instant of revelation before your eyes, and what lay beyond in a sliver of infinity within infinity, in an infinity beyond infinity, beyond, beyond, and beyond. Such an experience overwhelms your being with itself and you are dropped silent before it. And then to have it open from within you and flow out into all that is, is to experience yourself abruptly beyond who you were a second before, into who you Eternally are. Such an experience overwhelms.

The difference now is that within the meditation path, this is much more controlled. You can allow, or withdraw. There is much more a controlled opening when you are ready. There are things that happen, doors you move through, chambers or rooms or spaces, thresholds, depths of the divine. It is very difficult to describe this except to those who have shared in this. Each stage, each room, each depth is deeper and deeper, stiller and stiller, where symbols of the divine dissolve into Awakened mind. Presence, knowledge, insight, stillness, depth, etc.

You are deliberately putting yourself before this, and open yourself to this as you "die daily", as you lay your ego down, offering yourself to God. Not seeking to possess, not seeking to experience, but seeking to become. You shed your flesh and expose your soul. As the Buddha said, "Without fear go". It can overwhelm, but through Grace, through faith, you fall into God and are raised up.

That's the difference between a spontaneous peak experience like this, and the deliberate exposing of yourself to that in meditation.

OK.
Windwalker, Don't you feel like missing something in that subtle world ? if anything, what is that you feel like missing ?

 

[Windwalker]

OK.
Windwalker, Don't you feel like missing something in that subtle world ? if anything, what is that you feel like missing ?

Of course. I would say complete consistency. When we have to engage in the daily demands of work and relationships, we can sometimes get wrapped back up in the old habits of mind and find ourselves living primarily inside that mind-world again. But as we continually practice, a new mind habit is formed, and though we continue to engage in the world, it is with a renewed, a transformed mind. That's becoming more consistent for me where I am at. A certain threshold has been passed, but it's more learning to become that, mature that into a new stage. And then there will be a stage beyond this, and then that, etc.

But as far as missing something in the subtle? You cannot contain it. It arises new in every moment. If you aren't seeing it arise each moment, then you are missing it entirely.

 

[chinu]

But as far as missing something in the subtle? You cannot contain it.

No, one can contain it, and there an end and a permanent residence over there, rather than which sounds temporary.

It arises new in every moment. If you aren't seeing it arise each moment, then you are missing it entirely.

See you there, if you are

 

[Windwalker]

No, one can contain it, and there an end and a permanent residence over there, rather than which sounds temporary.

Permanent residence, yes. But contain, as in define it, catalog it, and possess it in understanding, no. Seeing the subtle always, yes.

 

[chinu]

Permanent residence, yes. But contain, as in define it, catalog it, and possess it in understanding, no. Seeing the subtle always, yes.

What do you think will happen after your death ? or where you will be, and doing what after leaving your body at the time of your natural death?

 

[Windwalker]

What do you think will happen after your death ? or where you will be, and doing what after leaving your body at the time of your natural death?

I will be where I am right now. Where I have always been. There is no time, and there is no where. My center is every "where". There is no "after-life", there is only Life.

My body is a form. I am formless. My body is all bodies, and no body. How can I die? I am not my body. Are you?

 

[chinu]

I will be where I am right now. Where I have always been. There is no time, and there is no where. My center is every "where". There is no "after-life", there is only Life.

My body is a form. I am formless. My body is all bodies, and no body. How can I die? I am not my body.

Yes, you are fromless, but your "I"will remain after your body, which will need an another new body in order to see this world again.

Are you?

Death of this "I" is the real death, and the birth of real life, or God.

 

[Thief]

)

Dear Thief,
thank you very much for your post
(Born again might not be an event dealt in this life)
. Jesus told Nicodemus, 'Unless you are born again you cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. If 'born again' is not an event dealt in this life, why did Jesus ask Nicodemus to be born again?

(Jesus may have participated in baptism.....But He did not baptize others).

There is an external baptism and internal baptism. External baptism is a symbol, either what has already within or what one hopes to happen. Internal baptism is something everyone has to grow through, like a child comes out of the womb. It is a spiritual birth. Jesus cannot force this happen. Everyone has to grow sufficiently so that the birthing process happens naturally and spontaneously.

And transcending the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees might take you AWAY FROM scripture.

Jesus said,' it is written in your Law but I say unto you..'

Had Jesus gone away from the scripture?

So many questions...here is how I see it.

To bear up someone else.....to carry another.....
Physically, as mother bears a child.
Spiritually.....as angels assist after your last breath.

We came into this world naked, we leave the same way.
We stand from the dust.
The angels have first say.
They know the territory, the language, and the scheme of things.

The have the advantage.

When two disciples came asking position in the kingdom...to right and the left of Him.....
He did say first....'You know not what you ask.'
They said in reply....'yeah Lord we know.....and will do all that you command.'

'Can you then receive the baptism of which I am baptized ?.....
Will you drink from the Cup I shall drink from?'
They say to Him....'yeah Lord we will.'

'Then you be receive as I have received and drink from the Cup that I shall take.
But as for who shall sit at my right and my left.....THAT is not mine to give'

It runs a little deeper than it looks here.
What kind of king cannot choose from his following and say to them?.......
'Sit here at my right....and you at my left....and serve me.'

What kind of king cannot place his followers as he sees fit?....
Such things not His to give.

What kind of authority is that?

Away from scripture?....yeah.
'Search the scriptures ....if you think there is life within them.'

Obviously.....He meant something else.

 

[Thief]

So many questions...here is how I see it.

To bear up someone else.....to carry another.....
Physically, as mother bears a child.
Spiritually.....as angels assist after your last breath.

We came into this world naked, we leave the same way.
We stand from the dust.
The angels have first say.
They know the territory, the language, and the scheme of things.

They have the advantage.

When two disciples came asking position in the kingdom...to right and the left of Him.....
He did say first....'You know not what you ask.'
They said in reply....'yeah Lord we know.....and will do all that you command.'

'Can you then receive the baptism of which I am baptized ?.....
Will you drink from the Cup I shall drink from?'
They say to Him....'yeah Lord we will.'

'Then you shall receive as I have received and drink from the Cup that I shall take.
But as for who shall sit at my right and my left.....THAT is not mine to give'

It runs a little deeper than it looks here.
What kind of king cannot choose from his following and say to them?.......
'Sit here at my right....and you at my left....and serve me.'

What kind of king cannot place his followers as he sees fit?....
Such things not His to give.

What kind of authority is that?

Away from scripture?....yeah.
'Search the scriptures ....if you think there is life within them.'

Obviously.....He meant something else.

Sorry about the double post.....but I just hate typos.

 

[Muffled]

Little as YOU appreciate the fact, EVERY Baha'i is Christian in the sense of accepting and believing in both Christ and the Bible! Indeed, NO ONE can become Baha'i without this!

And while we reject the idea of incarnation, this in no way diminishes the stataion of Jesus, as you'd well know if you read the Baha'i scriptures.

So I find your presumption that I'm "not listening to Jesus" nothing if not absurd!

And we directly--and roundly--oppose and condemn prejudice--aka "pre-judging!"

Peace,

Bruce

I believe you may say that you are but in practice you are not. When you say that you believe then completely refute what Jesus says, it shows how much your belief is actually worth. I believe that you set up a christ image that is contrary to the real Christ.

That is like calling a glass of water apple juice and saying that the lack of apples does not diminsh its nature as apple juice.

I wouldn't categorize Bahai writings as scripture because I don't beleive they are inspired by God. I read what people post but I don't accept it as neceessarily true.

I don't believe I was presuming. I believe I was observing. If you think something is absurd explain logically why you think so.

I don't believe that I am doing so. I judge according to what a person says. That is what Jesus says He judges by as well as the heart. Mt 12:36 And I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

 

[BruceDLimber]

You are most welcome to your opinion!

But the fact remains that we understand what we believe--and why--better than you do such that you are in NO POSITION to gainsay our certitude.

Nor do our beliefs in the least diminish Jesus' status or station, thankyouverymuch!


Bruce

 

[savagewind]

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.( New American Standard Bible). This statement of Jesus has been interpreted to mean that Jesus Christ is the only way to God or true way to God
Interestingly here Jesus equates 'the way' with truth and the life.
This interpretation makes Christianity an exclusive religion and presents Jesus as a kind of spiritual colonizer. It is a very difficult statement for the inter-religious dialogue.

Are there any different ways of interpreting this statement of Jesus?

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

"comes" can be go too.
"through" by the instrumentality of

I am an American. I know some history of the settlement of the country. It was difficult and many people died looking for their place. Not any person could have made the route to the west accessible. And why did they choose to go? They heard about the good things to attain there.

The Son to me is the one who knows where we can go (and it is good), he made the way accessible and he knows how to stay out of danger along the way. Are there more trails than one? Probably. But those trails are not as safe as the one Yehoshua advanced. And when he made the way recognizable he was always mentally present for the task. (it requires faith to believe that). Because he was always present for the task his spirit remains reliable along the way. We can call on him whenever we cannot see which way to go. He is there. But he is also at the destination. And he will stay there always. (This also requires faith to believe).

So he is saying that to go to The Father requires that we tread the way he went to The Father.

 

[John Martin]

Posted by Savagewind
So he is saying that to go to The Father requires that we tread the way he went to The Father.

Dear Savagewind,I agree with you one hundred percent.
No one comes to the Father except through me. No one comes to the Father except the way I came to the Father.

 

[Muffled]

You are most welcome to your opinion!

But the fact remains that we understand what we believe--and why--better than you do such that you are in NO POSITION to gainsay our certitude.

Nor do our beliefs in the least diminish Jesus' status or station, thankyouverymuch!


Bruce

I believe that equates to "I'll believe what I want no matter how irrational, so don't ask me to justify my position."

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

I believe that equates to "I'll believe what I want no matter how irrational, so don't ask me to justify my position."

Do you believe in evolution?