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Jesus, the Christian Myth

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
No need to watch the whole thing, skip to 12:50, it's roughly 8 minutes long. If even that's too long for you just speed up the video to 2x speed. Summed up, Josephus is a forgery.
David Fitzgerald is an American author, public speaker, and atheist activist, best known for his books on the Christ Myth theory.

One could not help but believe that his youtube contribution is hardly a reliable contribution.
 
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Rick B

Active Member
Premium Member
Oki doki!

Your first mistake is to present Constantine 1 as "presiding a council to declare Jesus as God." The truth is Constantine 1 called for an ecumenical council which included 318 Bishops, all of them from the East, to bring harmony within the religious community. He realized the great impact that religion has on society. Because of the long-standing controversy regarding the detractors of the Biblical doctrine of the Trinity he brought together this council to try to settle this issue resulting in the Nicene Creed. He did not issue an unsupported edict. The debate regarding the Trinity which was first addressed began with the Sabellian Heresy c.a. 200 AD which denied the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity and promoted a form of Modalism. See: https://banneroftruth.org/us/resources/articles/2016/sabellianism/

On the heels of this heresy another ensued called Arianism which "agitated the Church for more than a half century". (Creeds of Christendom, Philip Schaff vol. 1 p.24) To this the Nicene Council was convened. And produced the original Nicene Creed.

Your second misrepresentation is what you put forth as the AD 325 Nicene Creed. That is not the Nicene Creed of 325 AD but the Constantinopolitan Creed which was convened by Theodosius in Constantinople, AD 381. Note the differences.

The Nicene Creed of 325.57
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God], Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance (ὁμοούσιον) with the Father; by whom all things were made [both in heaven and on earth]; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man; he suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
And in the Holy Ghost.

[But those who say: 'There was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made;' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable'—they are condemned by the holy catholic (this is the Church universal, not the Roman Catholic Church R.B.) and apostolic Church.]
This was the authorized form down to the Council of Chalcedon.

The Constantinopolitan Creed of 381.58
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man; he was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried, and the third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father; from thence he shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets. In one holy catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

The last issue is that you fail to address direct questions or opposing arguments. For example historic Christianity agrees with your assertion that Jesus was a man. However orthodox Christians go further and accept the Biblical data that He was/is the God-man as I offered earlier and described in the aforementioned Council of Chalcedon produced below:

Council of Chalcedon (451 A.D)

Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.

Jesus' Two Natures: God and Man
by Matt Slick @ carm.org
11/24/08

Jesus is the most important person who has ever lived since he is the Savior, God in human flesh. He is not half God and half man. He is fully divine and fully man. In other words, Jesus has two distinct natures: divine and human. Jesus is the Word who was God and was with God and was made flesh (John 1:1, 14). This means that in the single person of Jesus he has both a human and divine nature, God and man. The divine nature was not changed when the Word became flesh (John 1:1, 14). Instead, the Word was joined with humanity (Col. 2:9). Jesus' divine nature was not altered. Also, Jesus is not merely a man who "had God within Him," nor is he a man who "manifested the God principle." He is God in flesh, second person of the Trinity. "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word." (Heb. 1:3). Jesus' two natures are not "mixed together" (Eutychianism), nor are they combined into a new God-man nature (Monophysitism). They are separate yet act as a unit in the one person of Jesus. This is called the Hypostatic Union.

The following chart should help you see the two natures of Jesus "in action":

GOD MAN
He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2, 11; 14:33) He worshiped the Father (John 17)
He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8) He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5)
He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1) He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37)
He is prayed to (Acts 7:59) He prayed to the Father (John 17)
He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15) He was tempted (Matt. 4:1)
He gives eternal life (John 10:28) He died (Rom. 5:8)
All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9) He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39)


The Communicatio Idiomatum
A doctrine that is related to the Hypostatic Union is the communicatio idiomatum (Latin for "communication of properties"). This is the teaching that the attributes of both the divine and human natures are ascribed to the one person of Jesus. This means that the man Jesus could lay claim to the glory He had with the Father before the world was made (John 17:5), claim that He descended from heaven (John 3:13), and also claim omnipresence (Matt. 28:20). All of these are divine qualities that are laid claim to by Jesus; therefore, the attributes of the divine properties were claimed by the person of Jesus.

One of the most common errors that non-Christian cults make is not understanding the two natures of Christ. For example, the Jehovah's Witnesses focus on Jesus' humanity and ignore His divinity. They repeatedly quote verses dealing with Jesus as a man and try to set them against Scripture showing that Jesus is also divine. On the other hand, the Christian Scientists do the reverse. They focus on the Scriptures showing Jesus' divinity to the extent of denying His true humanity.

For a proper understanding of Jesus and, therefore, all other doctrines that relate to Him, His two natures must be properly understood and defined. Jesus is one person with two natures. This is why He would grow in wisdom and stature (Luke 2:52) and yet know all things (John 21:17). He is the Divine Word that became flesh (John 1:1, 14).

The Bible is about Jesus (John 5:39). The prophets prophesied about Him (Acts 10:43). The Father bore witness of Him (John 5:37; 8:18). The Holy Spirit bore witness of Him (John 15:26). The works Jesus did bore witness of Him (John 5:36; 10:25). The multitudes bore witness of Him (John 12:17). And, Jesus bore witness of Himself (John 14:6; 18:6).

Other verses to consider when examining His deity are John 10:30-33; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:6-8; and 2 Pet. 1:1.

1 Tim. 2:5 says, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Right now, there is a man in heaven on the throne of God. He is our advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1). He is our Savior (Titus 2:13). He is our Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). He is Jesus.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
@Rick B

Emperor Constantine and his troops are long dead
318 bishops are long dead

upload_2017-5-13_9-24-22.jpeg


They left you with an unscriptural doctrine
You inherited it, the Baptist church inherited it.
Would you trust your soul with doctrines of dead guys?
Or will you trust your soul with God Almighty?

The doctrine that Jesus is god came from Nicaea
Invented in 325 A.D.
The doctrine that HS is god came from Constantinople
Invented in 381 A.D.
The doctrine of the Trinity came from what is now Turkey
Near Pergamum - where Satan sits on his throne and where he lives.

devilthrone.jpg


If the food for your soul came from an unhealthy source, you can expect nothing good to come out of it. Like what Jesus said:

But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness! Matthew 6:23
 

Rick B

Active Member
Premium Member
@Rick B

Emperor Constantine and his troops are long dead
318 bishops are long dead

View attachment 17239

They left you with an unscriptural doctrine
You inherited it, the Baptist church inherited it.
Would you trust your soul with doctrines of dead guys?
Or will you trust your soul with God Almighty?

The doctrine that Jesus is god came from Nicaea
Invented in 325 A.D.
The doctrine that HS is god came from Constantinople
Invented in 381 A.D.
The doctrine of the Trinity came from what is now Turkey
Near Pergamum - where Satan sits on his throne and where he lives.

View attachment 17240

If the food for your soul came from an unhealthy source, you can expect nothing good to come out of it. Like what Jesus said:

But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness! Matthew 6:23

You have nothing to offer in the form of any rational response to logical, historical, and Biblical argumentation. Only a repetitive dogma indoctrinated by the INC group you are yoked to - the hallmark of all cults as Iglesia Ni Cristo is defined by orthodox Christianity. See, for example www.apologeticsindeex.org/2848-iglesia-ni-cristo. For those would like more info on INC see, theiglesianicristoandfelixmanalo.blogspot.com
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
You have nothing to offer in the form of any rational response to logical, historical, and Biblical argumentation. Only a repetitive dogma indoctrinated by the INC group you are yoked to - the hallmark of all cults as Iglesia Ni Cristo is defined by orthodox Christianity. See, for example www.apologeticsindeex.org/2848-iglesia-ni-cristo. For those would like more info on INC see, theiglesianicristoandfelixmanalo.blogspot.com

source.gif


Really? I think this is violation of the RF rules
  • Quotations and Citations/References
  • Preaching/Proselytizing
But as a good member of the INC, I understand it.

“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
Matthew 5:11

Your choice, your soul.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
The doctrine that Jesus is god came from Nicaea
Invented in 325 A.D.
The doctrine that HS is god came from Constantinople
Invented in 381 A.D.
The doctrine of the Trinity came from what is now Turkey
Near Pergamum - where Satan sits on his throne and where he lives.
All patently false and easily proven by looking at the writings of early Christians, such as St. Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus and Cyprian the Great, all people who far predated the Council of Nicaea.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
All patently false and easily proven by looking at the writings of early Christians, such as St. Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus and Cyprian the Great, all people who far predated the Council of Nicaea.

Various Catholic literature confirms what you attested and it predates the Council of Nicaea.

upload_2017-5-13_16-11-37.jpeg

“For fifty years after St. Paul’s life a curtain hangs over the church, through which we strive vainly to look; and when at last it rises about 120 A.D. with the writings of the earliest church-fathers, we find a church in many aspects very different from that in the days of St. Peter and St. Paul.” (The Story of the Christian Church, p. 41)


The differences between what used to be the Church of Christ in the first century and the Church that was revealed in the second to the fourth centuries are profound:

upload_2017-5-13_16-12-39.jpeg

“It is necessary to note that we should recall the reader’s attention to the profound differences between this fully developed Christianity of Nicaea and the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth….What is clearly apparent is that the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth was a prophetic teaching of the new type that began with the Hebrew prophets. It was not priestly, it had no consecrated temple, and no altar. It had no rites and ceremonies. Its sacrifice was ‘a broken and contrite heart’. Its only organization was an organization of preachers, and its chief function was the sermon. But the fully fledge Christianity of the fourth century, though it preserved as its nucleus the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels, was mainly a priestly religion, of a type already familiar to the world for thousands of years. The center of its elaborate ritual was an altar, and the essential act or worship the sacrifice, by a consecrated priest, of the Mass.” (The Outline of History, pp. 552-553)

upload_2017-5-13_16-16-59.jpeg

“We Catholics acknowledge readily, without any shame, nay with pride, that Catholicism cannot be identified simply and wholly with primitive Christianity, nor even with the Gospel of Christ, in the same way that the great oak cannot be identified with the tiny acorn.” (The Spirit of Catholicism, p. 2)


“ ‘Without the Scriptures’, says Mohler, ‘the true form of the sayings of Jesus would have been withheld from us….Yet the Catholic does not derive his faith in Jesus from Scripture’.” (Ibid. p. 50)


The first bishop identified as having introduced changes into the Church was Ignatius, bishop of Antioch who was martyred in Rome about 110 A.D.

upload_2017-5-13_16-19-57.jpeg

“The name Catholic as a name is not applied to the Catholic Church in the Bible. ..St. Ignatius of Antioch, writing to the Christians of Smyrna about the year 110, is the first to use the name ‘The Catholic Church’ …” (The Question Box, p. 132)


This same Ignatius introduced the doctrine that Christ is both God and man:


“He asserted unequivocally both the divinity and humanity of Christ, the Savior.” (New Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. 7, p. 353)


Ignatius is one of the so-called Antenicene Fathers who were divided into three groups, namely:


1. Apostolic Fathers – supposedly had personal contact with the Apostles or were instructed by their disciples. To this group belong Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp of Smyna, and Clement of Rome.


2. Greek Apologists – born of the Church’s reaction to paganism. To this group belong Justin Martyr, Athenagoras of Athens, Theophilus of Antioch, and Irenaeus.


3. Theologians – to this group belong Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Tertullian, and Cyprian.


These Church Fathers were the source of the teachings that the Catholic Church taught and implemented beginning the second century. However, such persons were not immune from errors and yet, the apostatized church approved their teachings:

upload_2017-5-13_16-21-44.jpeg

“Obviously much that Christ and the apostles preached was in time reduced to writing. Hence there grew up a library composed of men called ‘the fathers of the Church’. They were called so because in apostolic days the word ‘father’ also meant teacher of spiritual things, and these were among her earliest teachers. But, unlike the apostles, all of whom enjoyed infallibility, they were not immune from error nor inspired as the scriptural writers had been. In so far as they dealt with questions of faith and morals, much of what they wrote was approved by the Church, and thus, became part of written tradition.” (Whereon to Stand: What Catholics Believe and Why, p. 142)

Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus and Cyprian the Great - were not immune from error nor inspired as the scriptural writers had been. That is why we are examining the Trinity which is a myth to me. My Jesus did not claim to be god, there are no verses to support that the HS is god nor there are verses to support the Trinity. It was approved by the Catholic Church and were merely voted upon.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Now your "god" has a multiple personality disorder
images


Jesus is a man (not God)

John 8:40-45 New International Version (NIV)

As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the works of your own father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!


Wasn't that clear? If it is not, maybe Jesus is definitely right about your father.

I believe you have a multiple personality disorder fantasy. God has only one personality.

I believe Jesus is a man and God. Your belief has no basis in fact.


I believe it is absolutely clear that Jesus is God, so what fantasy are you entertaining?

I believe my Father doesn't accuse the brethren.
 

Rick B

Active Member
Premium Member
MJFlores

Hebrews 1:8 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

"But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom."
Pros de ton huion ho thronos sou ho theos, (lit. “but regarding the Son [He says], the throne of you the God. . . .”). The context of Hebrews 1 is addressing the Son as God in an ontological sense (cf. Heb. 1:3) “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.” This is the universal consensus among objective scholarship.

Jesus does claim to be equal will God:

John 5:18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Do you hear His word and honor the Son (who makes Himself equal with God) as you say you honor the Father? Or do you refuse to believe like the Scribes and Pharisees?

The Father calls Jesus God. Heb.1:8
Jesus testifies as to His divine nature by His works and His words. Jn.5:18-24

John 8:23 And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He [egō eimi] , you will die in your sins.” 25 So they were saying to Him, “Who are You?” Jesus said to them, “What have I been saying to you from the beginning?"

Although many translations add the pronoun “he” after “I am” (e.g., NKJ, NASB) or brackets the fact is there is no pronoun contained after egō eimi (“I am”) in any Greek manuscript of John 8:24 or after Jesus’ other affirmations of being the “I am” as in John 8:28, 58; 13:19; 18:5, 6, and 8. See also Mark 6:50: “Take courage; I am [egō eimi], do not be afraid”


These occurrences of Jesus’ claim to be the “I am” are not the same as statements such as, “I am the door” or “I am the shepherd.” These all have clear predicates (“door,” “shepherd”) following “I am,” whereas the seven “I am” statements in John have no supplied predicate, but rather the “I am” stands alone. Therefore this was an absolutely clear claim to deity.

To fully grasp the theological significance of the phrase egō eimi, the OT background must first be considered. The Hebrew phrase, ani hu (“I [am] He”), which was translated egō eimi in the Septuagint (LXX), was an exclusive and often repeated title for Yahweh alone (cf. Deut. 32:39; Isa. 41:4; 43:10; 46:4)—which the Jews clearly understood

Since you like, so much, to jump around to a great variety of Bible translations you make enjoy this one:

The Aramaic Bible in Plain English (2010) John 8:24 reads: “I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for unless you shall believe that I AM THE LIVING GOD, you shall die in your sins” (caps theirs).
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="Muffled, post: 5184728, member: 7502"

I believe Jesus is a man and God. Your belief has no basis in fact.


[/QUOTE]

No basis in fact?

upload_2017-5-14_8-17-44.jpeg

John 8:40-45
New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

but now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. You are indeed doing what your father does.”

They said to him, “We are not illegitimate children; we have one father, God himself.”

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now I am here. I did not come on my own, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot accept my word. You are from your father the devil, and you choose to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.

tumblr_m1axvkubwt1qzmpuho1_r1_250.gif


People lie but the Bible doesn't
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
MJFlores

Hebrews 1:8 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

"But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom."
Pros de ton huion ho thronos sou ho theos, (lit. “but regarding the Son [He says], the throne of you the God. . . .”). The context of Hebrews 1 is addressing the Son as God in an ontological sense (cf. Heb. 1:3) “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.” This is the universal consensus among objective scholarship.

Jesus does claim to be equal will God:

John 5:18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Do you hear His word and honor the Son (who makes Himself equal with God) as you say you honor the Father? Or do you refuse to believe like the Scribes and Pharisees?

The Father calls Jesus God. Heb.1:8
Jesus testifies as to His divine nature by His works and His words. Jn.5:18-24

John 8:23 And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He [egō eimi] , you will die in your sins.” 25 So they were saying to Him, “Who are You?” Jesus said to them, “What have I been saying to you from the beginning?"

Although many translations add the pronoun “he” after “I am” (e.g., NKJ, NASB) or brackets the fact is there is no pronoun contained after egō eimi (“I am”) in any Greek manuscript of John 8:24 or after Jesus’ other affirmations of being the “I am” as in John 8:28, 58; 13:19; 18:5, 6, and 8. See also Mark 6:50: “Take courage; I am [egō eimi], do not be afraid”


These occurrences of Jesus’ claim to be the “I am” are not the same as statements such as, “I am the door” or “I am the shepherd.” These all have clear predicates (“door,” “shepherd”) following “I am,” whereas the seven “I am” statements in John have no supplied predicate, but rather the “I am” stands alone. Therefore this was an absolutely clear claim to deity.

To fully grasp the theological significance of the phrase egō eimi, the OT background must first be considered. The Hebrew phrase, ani hu (“I [am] He”), which was translated egō eimi in the Septuagint (LXX), was an exclusive and often repeated title for Yahweh alone (cf. Deut. 32:39; Isa. 41:4; 43:10; 46:4)—which the Jews clearly understood

Since you like, so much, to jump around to a great variety of Bible translations you make enjoy this one:

The Aramaic Bible in Plain English (2010) John 8:24 reads: “I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for unless you shall believe that I AM THE LIVING GOD, you shall die in your sins” (caps theirs).

Just to many of 'em walkers!

KIBpGgj.gif


Focus on one or we run.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Focus on one or we run.

OK

The Aramaic Bible in Plain English (2010) John 8:24 reads: “I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for unless you shall believe that I AM THE LIVING GOD, you shall die in your sins” (caps theirs).

24 That is why I told you that you will die [unforgiven and condemned] in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am the One [I claim to be], you will die in your sins.” amp

8:24 If ye believe not that I AM - Here (as in 8:58 ) our Lord claims the Divine name, I AM, Exodus 3:14 . But the Jews, as if he had stopped short,and not finished the sentence, answered, Who art thou? (John Wesley)

So simple.

But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.
 

Rick B

Active Member
Premium Member
Just to many of 'em walkers!

KIBpGgj.gif


Focus on one or we run.

Yes, that is exactly what you do when presented with Scripture totally destroying the INC organization's feeble attempt to undermine the historical, orthodox, Christian teaching on the Trinity and Christology. Run, hide, dismiss, avoid, misrepresent, dodge, send pictures, gifs, funny cartoons. That is, avoid direct interaction with the Biblical texts at all costs.

It is understandable because, by all appearances, the INC must have imprinted this upon the minds of its devotees.
1494711306424695444334.jpg
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Yes, that is exactly what you do when presented with Scripture totally destroying the INC organization's feeble attempt to undermine the historical, orthodox, Christian teaching on the Trinity and Christology. Run, hide, dismiss, avoid, misrepresent, dodge, send pictures, gifs, funny cartoons. That is, avoid direct interaction with the Biblical texts at all costs.

It is understandable because, by all appearances, the INC must have imprinted this upon the minds of its devotees.
View attachment 17263

Do the Reformed Baptists teach to be scriptural or extra scriptural? You have the 5 solas, don't you?

images


I would appreciate if you could make it short sweet and clear. Maybe one at a time. Then you say what you want to drive at than throwing a lot, like a hoard of zombies.

With one zombie verse, I could address that with some sweets.
zombie16.gif


Seriously, I would address just one of them, remind me later about the others. This one is a handful already.

Hebrews 1:8 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

"But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom."
Pros de ton huion ho thronos sou ho theos, (lit. “but regarding the Son [He says], the throne of you the God. . . .”). The context of Hebrews 1 is addressing the Son as God in an ontological sense (cf. Heb. 1:3) “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.” This is the universal consensus among objective scholarship.

Where is the HS? No throne?
Are there 2 gods now?
Where was Heb 1:8 written from?

Isn't Heb 1:8 written from an old passage of King David?

Psalm 45:6-7 Good News Translation (GNT)

The kingdom that God has given you
will last forever and ever.
You rule over your people with justice;
you love what is right and hate what is evil.
That is why God, your God, has chosen you
and has poured out more happiness on you
than on any other king.

another version the NKJV:

Psalm 45:6-7 New King James Version (NKJV)

Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.

That is why, it Heb 1:8 is a misinterpretation because it was not a faithful copy of Psalm 45:6-7. However there was a faithful Heb 1:8 version:

"But with reference to the Son: 'God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness'" The New World Translation

Keep an open mind:
Where is the HS? No throne?
Are there 2 gods now?
Where was Heb 1:8 written from?

1 Corinthians 2:13 New King James Version (NKJV)

These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
OK

The Aramaic Bible in Plain English (2010) John 8:24 reads: “I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for unless you shall believe that I AM THE LIVING GOD, you shall die in your sins” (caps theirs).

24 That is why I told you that you will die [unforgiven and condemned] in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am the One [I claim to be], you will die in your sins.” amp

8:24 If ye believe not that I AM - Here (as in 8:58 ) our Lord claims the Divine name, I AM, Exodus 3:14 . But the Jews, as if he had stopped short,and not finished the sentence, answered, Who art thou? (John Wesley)

So simple.

But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.

Been searching the web who translated the Aramaic Bible in Plain English (2010) and I could not find the translator's name. Often times it is better to know who is the cook, not only eating stuff like a pig or we end up dead.

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The verses you quoted is like kissing a zombie on with the rotten flesh sticking out and it is kinda funny how it was translated:

John 8 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

24"I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for unless you shall believe that I AM THE LIVING GOD, you shall die in your sins." 25The Judeans were saying, "Who are you?" Yeshua said to them, "Even though I have begun to talk with you, 26There are many things for me to say and judge concerning you, but he who has sent me is true, and those things that I have heard from him, these things I am speaking in the world." 27And they did not know that he spoke to them about The Father.

But the one who translated these missed other points:

  • In the verse, Yeshua said "I AM THE LIVING GOD" but the Judeans still said "Who are you?" Come on man!

  • Then Yeshua said "...but he who has sent me is true....I have heard from him." - it is kinda obvious who is the true God and Yeshua heard from him and sent him.

So you know that this is really an adulterated and zombie verse - the are in conflict with each other. Then I have been searching the translator and publisher of this zombie bible but could not come up with a person or publisher. Most likely he knew that he made a zombie bible and would like to hide from ridicule. But at any rate, it is better to use the conventionally translated bible.

The New International Version is an English translation of the Protestant Bible. Biblica is the worldwide publisher and copyright holder of the NIV, and licenses commercial rights to Zondervan in the ...Wikipedia

Publisher: Biblica (Worldwide), Zondervan (US), Hodder & Stoughton (UK) and others
Complete Bible published: 1978 (Portuguese: 1993, Spanish: 1999)
Copyright: Copyright 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 Biblica
Revision: 1984, 2011
Reading level: 7.80
Other names: Nueva Versión Internacional (Spanish); Nova Versão Internacional (Portuguese)

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John 8:24-27 New International Version (NIV)

I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

“Who are you?” they asked.

“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”

They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father.

and a couple of verses down on the same chapter 8 in 40

The zombie bible reads:

39They answered and were saying to him, "Abraham is our father." Yeshua said to them, "If you were children of Abraham, you would have been doing the works of Abraham." 40"But now, behold, you are seeking to kill me; I am a man who have spoken the truth with you, which I have heard from God;

The zombie maker forgot to change this verse. On the 24th verse it reads I AM THE LIVING GOD and it is different in the 40th verse which reads ; I am a man who have spoken the truth with you, which I have heard from God
Who ever is the author of this zombie bible he should have changed this verse probably into "I am the living God who have spoken the truth with you, which I have heard from myself." - which really would make it a full zombie verse but apparently the translator forgot to alter this.

Going back to the NIV

John 8:40 New International Version (NIV)

As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.

And that is the TRUTH.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Been searching the web who translated the Aramaic Bible in Plain English (2010) and I could not find the translator's name.
I figured your resources were few, that's why I gave you two and a great commentary of John Wesley who was used mightily by God. (Certainly more than you or I)

"40"But now, behold, you are seeking to kill me; I am a man who have spoken the truth with you, which I have heard from God;"

EXACTLY!! While on the earth, He emptied Himself (Phil 2) and became a man...

But before He was manifested in a body, IN THE BEGINNING, He was The Word... and The Word WAS GOD!

So simple! I don't even have to post a picture of a zombie. :D
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
I figured your resources were few, that's why I gave you two and a great commentary of John Wesley who was used mightily by God. (Certainly more than you or I)

"40"But now, behold, you are seeking to kill me; I am a man who have spoken the truth with you, which I have heard from God;"

EXACTLY!! While on the earth, He emptied Himself (Phil 2) and became a man...

But before He was manifested in a body, IN THE BEGINNING, He was The Word... and The Word WAS GOD!

So simple! I don't even have to post a picture of a zombie. :D

But now, behold, you are seeking to kill me; I am a man who have spoken the truth with you, which I have heard from God;"

EXACTLY!! While on the earth, He emptied Himself (Phil 2) and became a man...

When he emptied himself he was a man, he was no longer a god - is that what you are driving at?

So the god now is the F and H for 33 years while he was on earth- is that what you are driving at ?
 

Rick B

Active Member
Premium Member
Do the Reformed Baptists teach to be scriptural or extra scriptural? You have the 5 solas, don't you?

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I would appreciate if you could make it short sweet and clear. Maybe one at a time. Then you say what you want to drive at than throwing a lot, like a hoard of zombies.

With one zombie verse, I could address that with some sweets.
zombie16.gif


Seriously, I would address just one of them, remind me later about the others. This one is a handful already.

Hebrews 1:8 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

"But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom."
Pros de ton huion ho thronos sou ho theos, (lit. “but regarding the Son [He says], the throne of you the God. . . .”). The context of Hebrews 1 is addressing the Son as God in an ontological sense (cf. Heb. 1:3) “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.” This is the universal consensus among objective scholarship.

Where is the HS? No throne?
Are there 2 gods now?
Where was Heb 1:8 written from?

Isn't Heb 1:8 written from an old passage of King David?

Psalm 45:6-7 Good News Translation (GNT)

The kingdom that God has given you
will last forever and ever.
You rule over your people with justice;
you love what is right and hate what is evil.
That is why God, your God, has chosen you
and has poured out more happiness on you
than on any other king.

another version the NKJV:

Psalm 45:6-7 New King James Version (NKJV)

Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.

That is why, it Heb 1:8 is a misinterpretation because it was not a faithful copy of Psalm 45:6-7. However there was a faithful Heb 1:8 version:

"But with reference to the Son: 'God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness'" The New World Translation

Keep an open mind:
Where is the HS? No throne?
Are there 2 gods now?
Where was Heb 1:8 written from?

1 Corinthians 2:13 New King James Version (NKJV)

These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Figures you would dodge. GNT is not a word-for-word translation but paraphrases to help the "unlearned". It is no surprise that you fall back on the NWT to avoid a coherent respond. NWT was produced by a sister group of INC - the JW's - changing the actual words of the original languages to accommodate their false teaching. You just can't help yourself.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
When he emptied himself he was a man, he was no longer a god - is that what you are driving at?

I really don't think you know what God DID and what He went through to secure your salvation.
 
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