Jesus the Cynic?

[MountainHumanist]

Here is a passage from good ole Wikipedia (it must be true right?):

Many historians have noted the similarities between the life and teachings of Jesus and those of the Cynics. Some scholars have argued that the Q document, the hypothetical common source for the gospels of Matthew and Luke, has strong similarities with the teachings of the Cynics.[60][61] Scholars on the quest for the historical Jesus, such as Burton L. Mack and John Dominic Crossan of the Jesus Seminar, have argued that 1st century Galilee was a world in which Hellenistic ideas collided with Jewish thought and traditions. The city of Gadara, only a day's walk from Nazareth, was particularly notable as a center of Cynic philosophy,[62] and Mack has described Jesus as a "rather normal Cynic-type figure."[63] For Crossan, Jesus was more like a Cynic sage from an Hellenistic Jewish tradition than either a Christ who would die as a substitute for sinners or a Messiah who wanted to establish an independent Jewish state of Israel.[64] Other scholars doubt that Jesus was deeply influenced by the Cynics, and see the Jewish prophetic tradition as of much greater importance.[65]

Let's discuss this idea of Jesus as a Jewish Cynic Wanderer? Was he a Cynic or at least influenced by them? Many of his supposed instructions to his disciples matched those of cynics (simplicity, traveling light, communal meals, self-sufficiency, etc.)

 

[ericoh2]

I get the feeling that Jesus was much closer to a Heraclitus or a Diogenes than he was to the general perception of him. It's just that Christians and even some atheists are told from such an early age that Jesus was a certain way that it's hard to shake away that image of him. If you can read books like the new testament, gospel of Thomas, etc. without any preconceived notions I think you would get a much different feel for Jesus and his teachings.

 

[Quagmire]

... Many of his supposed instructions to his disciples matched those of cynics (simplicity, traveling light, communal meals, self-sufficiency, etc.)

These were also principles practiced by the Essenic Jewish sects of Jesus' time. I think it would be easier to draw a correlation between Essenic thought/practices and Jesus ministry---as well as the beliefs, practices and structure of the early Christian church---than it would be to demonstrate any Hellenistic influences (not saying there weren't any, just saying the Essenic influence is easier to demonstrate).

 

[dogsgod]

Greek cynic sage type teachings were collected and at some point combined with Jewish teachings and eventually all these teachings and sayings, as well as others outside the canonical gospels, were attributed to a Jesus.

 

[ericoh2]

Greek cynic sage type teachings were collected and at some point combined with Jewish teachings and eventually all these teachings and sayings, as well as others outside the canonical gospels, were attributed to a Jesus.

Do you have any sources that you could post? I would like to read up on this. Thanx .

 

[MountainHumanist]

These were also principles practiced by the Essenic Jewish sects of Jesus' time. I think it would be easier to draw a correlation between Essenic thought/practices and Jesus ministry---as well as the beliefs, practices and structure of the early Christian church---than it would be to demonstrate any Hellenistic influences (not saying there weren't any, just saying the Essenic influence is easier to demonstrate).

I agree that there was probably a strong Essenic influence on the Jesus movement (in fact some would say it WAS an Essenic movement). I'm curious how much Cynic Greek thought affected both the Jesus movement and the Essenes.

 

[MountainHumanist]

Greek cynic sage type teachings were collected and at some point combined with Jewish teachings and eventually all these teachings and sayings, as well as others outside the canonical gospels, were attributed to a Jesus.

That seems to be the point of former Jesus Seminar scholar Robert M. Price. He leans towards the idea of there being no historical Jesus. My best guess is there was probably not one specific Jesus but perhaps several Jesus-like figures preaching at about the same time period on about the same subject ("The Kingdom of God is at hand!"). Not quite like that scene in The Life of Brian but close.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I don't think that Jesus taught self-sufficiency, and that being the central tenant of Cynicism, I don't think that we can call Jesus a Cynic.

There were many wandering teachers and philosophers in the ancient world, and most - if not all - were poor. The only way to be a wealthy teacher was to be a part of a wealthy household (ie, not wandering, but travelling in style) - so we do have some wealthy Epicureans criticizing Cynics, and Cynics being proud of their poverty.

The only contact that we have with the Cynics is that which is common with other wandering philosophers and teachers that represent a popular ecclectic moral philosophy - it's not like we're dealing with exclusively Cynic characteristics.

 

[dogsgod]

That seems to be the point of former Jesus Seminar scholar Robert M. Price. He leans towards the idea of there being no historical Jesus. My best guess is there was probably not one specific Jesus but perhaps several Jesus-like figures preaching at about the same time period on about the same subject ("The Kingdom of God is at hand!"). Not quite like that scene in The Life of Brian but close.

Fiction makes use of combining many characters rolled into one as well as connecting otherwise unconnected stories together in order to tell a tale. The Gospel of Thomas is a sayings gospel with similar as well as very strange teachings attributed to a Jesus. It may have been a tradition to assign teachings to Jesus, lending credence to parallel Jesus-es.