Jesus the Messiah?

[Jeremy Mason]

Nore is there an actual biography of Jesus as well. And using the Gospels as evidence, would then allow for the Tenach to be evidence. Plus I never said that anything was biographic. I'm just saying that people have started looking at alot of what the Bible says, and thus taking from his actions, and equating them with the actions of the traditions of the Rabbi's then and finding similarities. I'm not here argueeing if this is Biographical evidence of his existance. The question was only do people believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Now can you in fact give me evidence to support why you believe he is infact the Messiah?

Well, there are some 400 prophecies that Jesus fulfilled. There is a 3 volume set of books called Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus by Michael L. Brown. Actually I heard there is a fourth book out now. Mr. Brown, a former Jew, uses Jewish references to prove that Jesus was in fact the Messiah. I highly recommend buying them.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Well, there are some 400 prophecies that Jesus fulfilled.

That is a statement of faith, not fact.

 

[raibeart]

Michael L. Brown. Wow, you are quoting books about a former Jewish who 'Found the Lord' at 16, while he was shooting up heroin, and using LSD. :thud: Have you ever been to a rehab facility? I mean being on the other side of it actually going through rehab? From first hand, not as a heroin addict but for a different drug, do you know what is sitting in your room? A King James Bible (in some cases NIV). Soooo when all you really have to do is read that book. And attend the weekly services, on Sunday mind you and taught from the new testament (as Christians will very rarely use the Tenach in any of there teaching). How else do you think he would have 'found the Lord'. Not to mention when your on any of these drugs you can tend to believe alot of things.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Here are about 100 commonly used prophecies that Jesus fulfilled. Check it out.

Prophecies that Jesus Christ Fulfilled

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Michael L. Brown. Wow, you are quoting books about a former Jewish who 'Found the Lord' at 16, while he was shooting up heroin, and using LSD. :thud: Have you ever been to a rehab facility? I mean being on the other side of it actually going through rehab? From first hand, not as a heroin addict but for a different drug, do you know what is sitting in your room? A King James Bible (in some cases NIV). Soooo when all you really have to do is read that book. And attend the weekly services, on Sunday mind you and taught from the new testament (as Christians will very rarely use the Tenach in any of there teaching). How else do you think he would have 'found the Lord'. Not to mention when your on any of these drugs you can tend to believe alot of things.

Well, you got to start somewhere. Sometimes some people have to hit rock bottom before they lose their pride and obtain that moment of clarity that changes their life. You should not be so judgmental. I'm sure God has all kinds of dirt in your life to talk about. Maybe you should read his books and judge for yourself the creditability of his work instead of throwing shallow insults at people who have made a change for the better.

 

[raibeart]

Well my biggest concern about this list you sent me is that 'The seed of David' how can you heritcly be the ancestor of David IF YOU WERE BORN OF A VIRGIN who was in fact not of David blood line? That is probably the biggest prophecy that will be fulfilled.

 

[Jayell]

Well my biggest concern about this list you sent me is that 'The seed of David' how can you heritcly be the ancestor of David IF YOU WERE BORN OF A VIRGIN who was in fact not of David blood line? That is probably the biggest prophecy that will be fulfilled.

That is the very reason Jesus was rejected by Israel; they didn't think He was the fullfillment of OT prophecy. You are never going to believe with your mind if He's not recieved FIRST in your heart.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You are never going to believe with your mind if He's not recieved FIRST in your heart.

That's convenient. :yes:

 

[raibeart]

I'm not saying that he didn't make a turn for the better, and I'm not saying that it is bad to study the bible to get through hard times, but the more and more I did, it did not make sence to me why so many people claim Jesus as the Messiah and keep the Trinity Doctrine. When it plainly contradicts the Tenach. I personally have studied the Christian and Catholic Bible. And it's not ment to be shallow insults. It is an unbiased opinion from someone who has personally been in almost the same position just I didn't hit that hard. But I, like him have also changed for the better. Especially after really studing.

It's not so much me needing to recieve him in my heart, because for the longest time I did except Jesus as the Messiah until I started doing what alot of Christians and Catholics really need to do. And that is study the Bible. I have 6 different versions of it which I've used to study. This is why I've felt that Jesus really isn't the Messiah.

One they are all lost in translation. Two the NT was not writen in Hebrew they were actually writen in Greek. Due to Roman Catholic control. Three it seems to me as well as other people, that the verses used by Christians to claim that he fullfilled the prophecies, are missinterpreted, or twisted. Although to each his own.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Well my biggest concern about this list you sent me is that 'The seed of David' how can you heritcly be the ancestor of David IF YOU WERE BORN OF A VIRGIN who was in fact not of David blood line? That is probably the biggest prophecy that will be fulfilled.

Galatians 3

 

[zenzero]

Friend Raibeart,
Welcome to RF.
Responding your OP:
Do not know what are the qualifications of a messiah so cannot say that BUT surely love him like an elder brother and can say that he was an enlightened man like many others who walked on earth and there will be many more in future.
Love & rgds

 

[Jayell]

.

It's not so much me needing to recieve him in my heart, because for the longest time I did except Jesus as the Messiah until I started doing what alot of Christians and Catholics really need to do. And that is study the Bible. I have 6 different versions of it which I've used to study. This is why I've felt that Jesus really isn't the Messiah.

That is the way Satan decieves us. The first thing he brought to Eve was doubt. "Has God indeed said that?" (Gen 3:1) He wants us to question whether God is being truthful with us. And I have heard it said; If you don't believe in God you will believe anything.

 

[raibeart]

Galations 3 doesn't say anything about him being of the seed of David. It talks about Paul the Preacher to the Gentiles. The Gentiles did not have to follow Jewish Law according to the Apostles. I ask you now, Why would God create commandments that he would later change?

When he said Ex. 19:5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites."

He expected the Israelites to keep these commandments till the coming of the true Messiah when the land will be full of peace and there will be no war, and no violence.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

[/quote]

Galations 3 doesn't say anything about him being of the seed of David. It talks about Paul the Preacher to the Gentiles. The Gentiles did not have to follow Jewish Law according to the Apostles. I ask you now, Why would God create commandments that he would later change?

I think you missed the point. The seed is a concept, not a actual seed.

When he said Ex. 19:5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites."

The answer is in the last sentence.

He expected the Israelites to keep these commandments till the coming of the true Messiah when the land will be full of peace and there will be no war, and no violence.

Well the Israelite didn't keep commandments and Jesus' purpose was to save Jews and Gentiles. He said that he didn't come here to bring peace, but division because He knew that many people would not accept him and His new covenant. Time and time again he's right.

 

[raibeart]

That is the way Satan decieves us. The first thing he brought to Eve was doubt. "Has God indeed said that?" (Gen 3:1) He wants us to question whether God is being truthful with us. And I have heard it said; If you don't believe in God you will believe anything.

This is where many christians are misled by the thought of Satan. Christians teach that Satan during Adam and Eve. Ok I understand this, but why would Satan still continue to answer to G-D until he was cast out of Heaven a thousand or so years later. It is actually the "Gen. 3:1...the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord G-D made." Now let me ask, how can the serpent be Satan, if it specifically states "serpent, a wild animal"? Just my 2 cents.

 

[Jayell]

This is where many christians are misled by the thought of Satan. Christians teach that Satan during Adam and Eve. Ok I understand this, but why would Satan still continue to answer to G-D until he was cast out of Heaven a thousand or so years later. It is actually the "Gen. 3:1...the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord G-D made." Now let me ask, how can the serpent be Satan, if it specifically states "serpent, a wild animal"? Just my 2 cents.

Satan is described as a serpent (snake) throughout the bible. Read Rev 12:9;20:2, 2 Cor 11:3. I don't believe Satan is an actual serpent, but that he took bodily control of it in the Gen. account. The comparison could be taken form Ezek 28:11-15, of his dazzling beauty. In the beginning the serpent could of possessed some of those qualities. But God curse it (Gen 3:14).

 

[raibeart]

Yes even though he may be described as a serpent in the NT, he is actually described as an angel, one of of G-Ds servants throught the Tenach till he was banished to the pit. When he was stripped of all his powers and treated as just any other person thrown into the pit.

 

[Jayell]

Yes even though he may be described as a serpent in the NT, he is actually described as an angel, one of of G-Ds servants throught the Tenach till he was banished to the pit. When he was stripped of all his powers and treated as just any other person thrown into the pit.

I'm not sure I follow you, please explain what you're saying, "Banished into a pit, stripped of all his powers"

 

[Poisonshady313]

Well, there are some 400 prophecies that Jesus fulfilled.

Not even one.

There is a 3 volume set of books called Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus by Michael L. Brown. Actually I heard there is a fourth book out now. Mr. Brown, a former Jew, uses Jewish references to prove that Jesus was in fact the Messiah. I highly recommend buying them.

Michael Brown is a joke. I've heard the man speak... his "proofs" are creative and misleading. To use them to apply to Jesus, you have to twist, turn, take out of context, mistranslate... even perhaps fabricate a thing or two.

I guess you can buy his book if you want something to read in the bathroom... but I wouldn't take his book seriously at all.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Well my biggest concern about this list you sent me is that 'The seed of David' how can you heritcly be the ancestor of David IF YOU WERE BORN OF A VIRGIN who was in fact not of David blood line?

You can't.