oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Ok....... but there are many guidances, rules and laws written large in the New Testament, the Divine Words of God, and surely you do have to keep every one of these new laws, true?
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Jesus was a Jew. When did his followers stop being Jews?
- Thread starter GeelongFams4WldPeace
- Start date
Ok....... but there are many guidances, rules and laws written large in the New Testament, the Divine Words of God, and surely you do have to keep every one of these new laws, true?
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Yes..... I've read what Jesus said.
But where is it written in the Mosiac Law, please?
Not exactly. The 10 Commandments are God's law, same as all laws of nature such as gravity. So they remain constant. However, human nature being corrupt, mankind was unable to keep the Commandments. God provided the only way by which humanity could be free of their futile efforts to do the impossible ( keep the Commandments). Mankind was in a state of 'mentally whipping ' themselves when their efforts to keep them met with failure time and time again. God gave His Son Jesus that we may escape such a tormented mental state. And through belief in Jesus as being the Son of God, that He came in the flesh was crucified dead and buried and rose again on the third day. And ascended into Heaven and sits at the right Hand of God the Father. Belief in this and accepting Him gives us the righteousness we are unable to attain ourselves. Our corrupt nature is such that even if one leads an exemplary life, it would still reek with the essence of corruption. Only through belief and acceptance of Jesus and the Gospel of Truth can any human being find favour with God. No other way but His way.
Faith in Jesus does for us what we can never do. By His Grace are we saved from a life of torment.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Ok...... the Ten Commandments are still current laws for Christians.
In addition, are Christians required to keep every law written in the New Testament?
T
What new laws. The NT embodies Jesus and the Gospel. Belief and acceptance of Jesus is to be a Christian. All is In Him. We should of course try and do what is right, but as a Christian are no longer bound by laws. Even though the laws still exist, in Jesus we will not be tormented by guilt when we fail.( which we will over and over). No longer do we have to be racked with guilt, we can feel genuine remorse and ask forgiveness in Jesus name and it will no longer exist. True repentance though means genuine effort to not repeat wrongs. What freedom from the chains which had us bound tight.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
I ckecked into this myself, and 'No', no such Mosiac Law as 'eye for eye' etc existed.
In fact, the OT laws forbade such an action .....
Leviticus 19:18 Nobody was allowed to take personal revenge upon or bear a grudge towards any other person.
Ex. 21:18-19 If somebody took a person's tooth or eye then they were made to pay compensation by the authorities.
I never did understand why Jesus said that.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
If you accept that the words written in the New Testament are the Divine words of God then I expect that you need to comply with them. There are scores and scores of laws and rules which believers are required to keep to. You cannot ignore them because you believe in them, surely?
I
Maybe to get across His message of love one another. Don't seek revenge when wronged in some way. Turn the other cheek.
Name one in the NT so I can understand what you are saying.
@oldbadger @Evie I hope you are having an interesting conversation. How's it going? My thoughts on your conversation are that the eye for eye is a limitation of damage not a requirement, so Jesus can say to his disciples that they should go even further and not seek redress at all. This is keeping the law plus a bit of 1-upmanship. I think a lot of Jews would complain it to be too impractical and a lot of Christians might think the same way, however it is a command of Christ.
My take on the larger topic is sin is not only about offenses but extends to doctrinal errors. Doctrinal errors are sins that should be overlooked, and this is really central to the conversation about when Christians cease being Jews. We have a completely different discipleship program directly from the beginning.
My take on the larger topic is sin is not only about offenses but extends to doctrinal errors. Doctrinal errors are sins that should be overlooked, and this is really central to the conversation about when Christians cease being Jews. We have a completely different discipleship program directly from the beginning.
RESOLUTION
Active Member
You are wrong because in each case GOD made the line about the MOTHER also. With Abraham, his eldest son of Ishmael but Hagar was not chosen to be the mother of the chosen son.
Sarah was made the promise by God that she would be the mother of many nations and of Kings.
So the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is clearly through the line of Sarah as Mother too. Like Abram his name changed to Abraham so Sara became Sarah.
So the line had to be through both Father and Mother.
In the case of Aaron and Elisheba the high priesthood is descended from both the royal tribe of Judah and the Priestly tribes. She is the mother of the priesthood.
As God chose Mary and ensured both Mother and Father of Jesus Christ were the descendant of the tribe of Judah. Then her line does count has God has always made the matrilineal line of major importance. Isaac had to be born of Elizabeth to be the child of the covenant.
In fact you had to be born of a Jewess to be a Jew. But what is important is any woman born of a line of Jewesses are classed as a Jew. Even today they cannot go into the synagogues
inner most chambers for men only if visiting with schools etc.
The law at that time said : Any child born of the wife is the child of the Husband. Isaac and Jesus were both born because of Gods promise. Not the will of the flesh but the power of God to the chosen Mothers and Fathers. You cannot deny that the priestly line of Aaron is from both the tribe of Judah and Priestly tribes.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
The Ten Commandments were only the first 10 of the 613 Commandments that Moses said came from God, and they can be found here: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)
Akivah
Well-Known Member
How did jesus fulfill prophecy? I seem to recall that when I talk about prophecy that hasn't happened yet, Christians tell me that their god will fulfill them next time. If he didn't fulfill them back then, why should we have believed him?
roger1440
I do stuff
How can anyone possible have faith in Jesus? He is not here to speak for himself. All we have are written books about him by people who never met him. We have no idea who wrote them. We have no idea where there were written. We have no idea when they were written. There has never been an agreement on what the books mean. The thousands upon thousands of flavors of Christianity worldwide will testify to that.
So this is how God works. In order to be saved from eternal damnation a person must believe in a specific set of books taught in a specific manner. Since the dawn of man, there has been written hundreds of millions of books written throughout the world. A person must select the correct set of books among the hundreds of millions available. I would have a better chance at winning the lottery with odds of a five million to one. Judging from Christian orthodoxy God appears to be some sort of cruel practical joker.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Fair enough, so either some things that Jesus said were just metaphor, or later on some Christians snuck this bit in, a complete fabrication.
Personally, I would plump for the latter, because Jesus didn't make stuff up ...... ever. But that would mean that some verses in the NT are simply not true.
OK
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
You are joking!
Goodness gracious! Look, I fibbed to you, there are not scores of rules and laws in the NT, there are HUNDREDS! How could you possibly require me to show you, a Christian, some of these? You either know the lot or you just have not read the NT.
Ok, alright, I'll just snatch a few at random as a sample for you, but you need to learn the whole lot by heart. If you need me to tell you where to look, then I'll be pleased to show you, but honestly, you should know this stuff. Remember, there are hundreds of these.....
You are:
Banned from eatruing blood or meat with blood in it.
Banned from any sexual activity outside of marriage.
Banned from any impatience.
Banned from committing any violent act, assault, or murder.
Banned from killing, so armed forces service is OUT.
Wives are banned from leaving their huisbands
You must:-
Pay all civil and/or National taxes.
Pay all dues, bills, debts on time.
Obey all the laws of the lands which you reside in.
Sell unecessary property to help the poor and weak.
Wives must submit to their huisbands.
Wives must satisfy their husbands sexually (and vice versa)
OK, so I snatched 6 DO NOTS and 6 MUST DOES as a sample. If you need twenty of each then I'll just have to snatch another 14 on each side. But you should do this homework, not me!
You not only must know these ...... all who believe in the writings must keep them, surely?
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
You very naughty member! (Oopps!....... he's staff!!! )
Well, Sir, if you believe absolutely that all the writings in the NT are the Divine Words of God as passed down in writing through his Ordained Apostles and Prophets, you're not allowed to guesstimate about what the writings might mean. One of the biggest problems (imo) is folks telling the World what the scriptures mean!
1Cor 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and [to] Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think above that which is written, .........................
or...................Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
What d'ya think? Any good?..... or rubbish?
Ah ha! I've been listening to Christians arguing amongst each other...... there seems to be a number of differing basic tenets, each one telling all the others that they are doomed!
Salvation through Faith and good actions.
Salvation through good actions
A personal surrender to God, and a life inspired by such surrender (I really like this one!)
Salvation is a Free Gift from God, attained simply by His Grace and Favour. Nothing else required.
Salvation is a Free Gift of God, inspiring the Christian to dedicated service for life.
Salvation is attained by Good Deeds and belief in Christ.
Oh...... they go on...... and on...
Which is, I suppose, why there are supposed to be over 3000 differing Creeds, Churches and Denominations.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Sadly Jesus did not Fulfill anything.
IMO he wanted to restore the 613 (less 96 of them about Sacrifice) for the good of Israel, Judaism and the working people.
His 11-12 month mission failed..
But what an amazing person.
Today we might refer to that as 'poetic license'. One of the greater difficulties for scholars is discerning which are the words of Jesus and which are of the church placed on his lips. Some are unique to Jesus (addressing God as Abba), and some possibly of the church (baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit). Some of the debates between the Pharisees, Sadducees and Jesus are artificial to promote Jesus' teachings and differences. Because they may be a construction by the evangelists does not make them 'untrue' to Jesus teachings.
Akivah
Well-Known Member
Well, you believe more about it than me. I believe that jesus is a fictional character. I don't draw any meaning from the stories written about this character. They just portray a criminal.