siti
Well-Known Member
C'mon...nobody would dream up something as bizarre as an RF discussion...that proves that its all real!
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Jesus was a mystic
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
How is that word salad? Two perfectly understandable statements is not a word salad.
What, pray tell, are you having a problem understanding?
I'm saying Christian mysticism is not what I and most psychologists or neurologists consider real mysticism.
And again, what is a direct experience of God. The very existence of God has not even been established.
Well there is good reason to doubt Jesus had a real experience in my view, whereas there is only weak reason to go into solipsism etc since everything i experience is consistently explained by life being real, whereas there seems to be contrary evidence to Jesus God experience being real as I see it.
Huh?
Are you claiming that God has been empirically demonstrated? Why, then, is this not common knowledge, like relativity or the germ theory?
Are you equating nature to God? I don't think they're equivalent. God is a conscious, willful, opinionated personage. Nature has none of these features.
No but there is a model
No idea. Maybe few are not willing to show what IS REAL.
Makes the best sense
our everything. Debate?
Sure it does, 'we are' conscious and what is defining. no other are doing it.
There's a model for hobbits, too, but that doesn't constitute evidence.
Showing what is real involves producing measurable, falsifiable, objective evidence, no?
No, unlike God, nature is not a personage. Nature has no will, no intention or plans, no consciousness or awareness.. Nature doesn't judge.
We're not talking about us. We were discussing God vs nature.
Is it not the original meaning of the word?
I think the parables also reveal things. If he would not have said them, I think it could be said that he didn't reveal things.
Not as you stated it.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
We don’t. We have to decide for ourselves who and what to trust, and who and what to place our faith in. If you are genuinely interested in who Jesus was and what he had to say, you could always start by reading the Gospels.
I have already read them cover to cover.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
His parables concealed things from the "tares".
The original, colloquial meanings are too ambiguous and varied for serious discussion. An agreed upon, technical understanding is needed.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
"In that breaking-through, when I come to be free of my own will and of God's will and of all His works and of God Himself, then I am above all created things, and I am neither God nor creature, but I am what I was and what I shall remain, now and eternally.
... When I stood in my first cause, I 'then had no 'God,' and then I was my own cause. I wanted nothing, I longed for nothing, for I was empty Being and the only truth in which I rejoiced was in the knowledge of my Self. Then it was my Self I wanted and nothing else. What I wanted I was, and what I was I wanted and so I stood empty of God and every thing."
(Meister Eckhart)
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PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
"The history of mysticism in Christianity begins with Jesus Christ, who for Christians is the Son of God. But independently of the aforementioned statement about his essence, we can start from the conclusion that Jesus was a mystical man. He experienced God within himself. He speaks about his unity with the Father especially in the Gospel of John, but also in other Gospels we hear again and again that Jesus retreats to pray to feel the Father's closeness. In prayer he realizes his essence, he feels one with God. In his preaching he wants to tell us about Him in such a way that we would also experience Him. Precisely in the parables he wants to push away our overly ossified images of God and open us to the mystery of a completely different God. His parables are, so to speak, art, with which he introduces us to the experience of God." (Anselm Grün, Mystik. The above quote was translated with Google translator)
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
"The word mystic comes from the Greek adjective mystikos, which belongs to the verbs myo (= to close the eyes and mouth in order to perceive a secret) and myeo (= to initiate into mysteries). For the Greeks, mysticism initially meant initiation into the mysteries, during which you became one with the destiny of the deity and gained a share in his divine power. But Plato also knows philosophical mysticism, in which he describes the ascent of the soul to a spiritual view of God. For Neoplatonic philosophy, mysticism is the knowledge of the truth wrapped in mystery. This realization can only be attained by one who separates himself from the world. Then he can look deeper into the ground of God's being." (Anselm Grün, Mystik. Translated to English)
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Thanks, I have no way to check is that true, but I think it fits to original Christianity, because:
And answering, He said to them, Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, but it has not been given to those.
Matt. 13:11
For disciples of Jesus, secrets are revealed.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. (1 Corinthians 4:1)
See also:
Sacred mysteries - Wikipedia
The Mystagogical Tradition - Homiletic & Pastoral Review
“Mystagogy” is a word that some parishes hear during Easter Time, and is often associated with the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (RCIA). Yet, a
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Jesus was a mystic
Did (Jesus) Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah every claim to be as such, please, right?
One must remember that (Jesus) Yeshua neither was a Christian, nor from the stock of Judah aka a Jew; he also was neither (Jesus)god nor holy-ghost-god nor a son of god nor a god-in-flesh; he was son of Mary so, like her he had bones and flesh and had a Message from One/G-d for the Israelite whether they resided in Judea or as diaspora lived in the Eastern countries , please, right?
Regards
Did (Jesus) Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah every claim to be as such, please, right?
One must remember that (Jesus) Yeshua neither was a Christian, nor from the stock of Judah aka a Jew; he also was neither (Jesus)god nor holy-ghost-god nor a son of god nor a god-in-flesh; he was son of Mary so, like her he had bones and flesh and had a Message from One/G-d for the Israelite whether they resided in Judea or as diaspora lived in the Eastern countries , please, right?
Regards