• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jesus was not God, but the word of God

ayani

ayani

member
well, He's called a lot of things in the Gospels.

Son of God, Messiah, Lamb of God, Lord, Rabboni, Teacher, Son of David, prophet, True Vine, Good Shepherd, and the Resurrection and the Life.

and i know there's more, though i can't remember them off the top of my head.

i agree with a lot of what San is saying, and he's saying things which are thoughtful and scripturally based. for Christians depending on how we came to know Him, we'll have different perspectives on Him, or emphasize different aspects of His being.

what's telling is what Jesus does say about Himself in relation to God in the Gospels. i wouldn't disagree with those Christians who emphasize His divinity and call Him God. in faith, i would argue that one can not glorify Him or emphasize Him enough. He is the one unique Man who has brought God's glory, compassion, forgiveness, person-hood, love, and law down to us, not merely via revelation, but through Himself.

for a Christian, He is the rock. to look to Him is to look with certainty and gladness to the God who made us, and whom so many humans long to know personally.

can Christians agree that to know Him is to know God? for He says this about Himself. (John 14:6-7) and can we agree that without Him, apart from Him, one can not truly know, love, and serve the Almighty who sent Him and loves Him? (Matthew 11:27)
 
R

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
san miguel said:
For a while i have been trying to figure out who Jesus was. People constantly say he was the lord, but after reading the bible recently i finally discovered who he was: the word of God. Jesus said he has been around since before the God made earth. I think that what he meant was that he was God's word, which was around before this universe was made. Finally, if Jesus is the word of God in human flesh, then the breaking of bread and wine finally makes sense. Jesus always used symbols to explain a meaning and the breaking of bread seems to be a symbol for eating his flesh. However, eating the Eucharist does not mean eat Jesus' body and an individual will be saved, but that eating the bread means that a person is eating the word of God and now the word of God is becoming one with the individual, who ate the Eucharist. the apostles ate the bread in order for the transformation of the word of God to blend with their bodies. This allows them to spread the word of God fully because the word of God is apart of them now. Does this seems right in your eyes or make any sense? please respond
Click to expand...

It is the spirit that gives life the flesh profits nothing!!!

Eating the bread in actuality does impart life, sort of speak, according to Jesus, but that life is only brought about through the work of the Holy Spirit which then causes the believer to partake.
So one can truly only understand this practice if he is spiritually born again, for many were doing it in the wrong manner and were rebuked by Paul.
Rom 8:9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The act of communion is symbolic profession and identifies the believer with Christ, so it's an act of obedience to remember the body and blood of Christ.

Jhn 6:51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Jhn 6:54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

When one eats the bread and drinks his blood (juice or wine) he is doing so symbolically and spiritually for it is a profession of the individuals identity with Christ, brought about through the working of the Holy Spirit
Jhn 6:56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
In this we are one with God by the spirit



..so I guess the most important question here would be, how do you take this emblem in an unworthy manner, which Paul says, you can bring judgement upon yourself.
1Cr 11:29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
 
ayani

ayani

member
logician said:
There have been many fables of man-gods, why is your story true, and the rest false?
Click to expand...

you are right, and that even many men and women in recent centuries have claimed to be God incarnate, or prophets. true, this.

so what makes Jesus unique?

many people have done wondrous things, too. and taught ethics centering on compassion, and mercy.

yet a number of things make Jesus unique. He claims to be the Son of God, a claim made more meaningfully the implications of the virgin birth. a number of Jewish sources have referenced this, and while they dismiss the claims of Jesus' virgin birth, or attribute His parentage to a Roman soldier, none of the Jewish accounts of Him list Joseph as His father, which is interesting. can this event be verified now? not with DNA testing, no. but it's recorded as significant in the Gospel narratives, and is taken to mean that the Spirit of God, and not any earthly man, fathered the Christ.

He claims to have a unique, personal relationship with God, and this shows in how He talks to and about God. many others have claimed to have such a relationship to God, yet their approaches to prayer have been focused on ritual religious devotion of some kind, either to themselves or to God, or on approaching God via contemplation. yet Jesus prays in a way that is startlingly simple, straightforward, personal, and conversational. He calls God "Abba", and shares this name with His disciples.

He speaks of God in ways which encourage the common person to look to God as Someone, and relate to Him with trust, love, and sincerity. He emphasizes personal prayer as a way into contact with God, and makes it clear that His miraculous power is given to Him by the God who sent Him. He's not doing these things on His own, to show off, or gain power. He simply claims that what he does, He does by the power of God's Spirit. His miracles are public, numerous, and diverse in what they accomplish. everything from healing fevers, to raising the dead, calming the sea, walking on water, driving away evil spirits, turning water into wine, and giving sight to the blind.

the claims that Jesus is risen from the dead are noteworthy, as well. keep in mind that Jesus is historical, not mythical or one god in a cosmology. He is an historical person, whose existence is verified outside of the Gospels, and existence detailed by wondrous works, claims to be the Messiah, and crucifixion. the belief that He is risen is Christian- other faiths deny that he was crucified and resurrected, or phrase the resurrection it metaphorical terms. yet it's a belief with substantial logical plausibility to it. granted, it's miraculous. one would have to grant that God exists and that He can break into our world in a supernatural way to being assuming that Jesus is who He says He is. yet considering the other options available as to why the tomb is empty, they crumble and fall in light of reason.

if you want a really, really comprehensive read on these topics i'd recommend "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. excellent book, reasonable, and clear. fun to read, too, and a good book for a skeptic with questions.
 
logician

logician

Well-Known Member
ayani said:
you are right, and that even many men and women in recent centuries have claimed to be God incarnate, or prophets. true, this.

so what makes Jesus unique?

many people have done wondrous things, too. and taught ethics centering on compassion, and mercy.

yet a number of things make Jesus unique. He claims to be the Son of God, a claim made more meaningfully the implications of the virgin birth. a number of Jewish sources have referenced this, and while they dismiss the claims of Jesus' virgin birth, or attribute His parentage to a Roman soldier, none of the Jewish accounts of Him list Joseph as His father, which is interesting. can this event be verified now? not with DNA testing, no. but it's recorded as significant in the Gospel narratives, and is taken to mean that the Spirit of God, and not any earthly man, fathered the Christ.

He claims to have a unique, personal relationship with God, and this shows in how He talks to and about God. many others have claimed to have such a relationship to God, yet their approaches to prayer have been focused on ritual religious devotion of some kind, either to themselves or to God, or on approaching God via contemplation. yet Jesus prays in a way that is startlingly simple, straightforward, personal, and conversational. He calls God "Abba", and shares this name with His disciples.

He speaks of God in ways which encourage the common person to look to God as Someone, and relate to Him with trust, love, and sincerity. He emphasizes personal prayer as a way into contact with God, and makes it clear that His miraculous power is given to Him by the God who sent Him. He's not doing these things on His own, to show off, or gain power. He simply claims that what he does, He does by the power of God's Spirit. His miracles are public, numerous, and diverse in what they accomplish. everything from healing fevers, to raising the dead, calming the sea, walking on water, driving away evil spirits, turning water into wine, and giving sight to the blind.

the claims that Jesus is risen from the dead are noteworthy, as well. keep in mind that Jesus is historical, not mythical or one god in a cosmology. He is an historical person, whose existence is verified outside of the Gospels, and existence detailed by wondrous works, claims to be the Messiah, and crucifixion. the belief that He is risen is Christian- other faiths deny that he was crucified and resurrected, or phrase the resurrection it metaphorical terms. yet it's a belief with substantial logical plausibility to it. granted, it's miraculous. one would have to grant that God exists and that He can break into our world in a supernatural way to being assuming that Jesus is who He says He is. yet considering the other options available as to why the tomb is empty, they crumble and fall in light of reason.

if you want a really, really comprehensive read on these topics i'd recommend "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. excellent book, reasonable, and clear. fun to read, too, and a good book for a skeptic with questions.
Click to expand...

Read Freke and Gandy's "The Jesus Mysteries" and "The Laughing Jesus" for an insight into the history of religion prior to and following the advent of Christianity.
 
Quagmire

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
logician said:
There have been many fables of man-gods, why is your story true, and the rest false?
Click to expand...

You're missing the point Logician; for the purposes of this thread it isn't necessary to take a stance on the legitimacy of the story itself, we're just debating possible interpretations of the meaning of the story.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top