Jesus was Yahweh???

[Jayhawker Soule]

No need to get so personal is there? ...

Nothing personal about it. Your 'theory' is literally worthless. I'll be more than happy to suggest relevant scholarship on Yahwism if and when you're ready to pursue it.

 

[tumbleweed41]

it was redacted after 622 BC to reflect the new monotheistic Yahwist in control of the jewish governement.

for the previous 600 + years going back before Israelites existance Yahweh was never the one god. El was the "Father" and they were factually polytheistic with El ,Baal and Asherah.

The major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god in the early period.[

even after 622 BC not everyone was a loyal Yahwist and that is evident in the scripture. Polytheism hadnt even died completely at that point, allthough it was on a rapid decline.






factual really

they were polytheistic much longer then the brief state of henotheism after the Babylonian exile




maybe I can clear things up here

there was no major tribe, there was north and south and both from 1200 BC to 622 BC that were polytheistic and placed different deity beliefs. By geographic regions, and changing cultures, we had belief in Baal and Asherah who was a consort of both El and Yahweh. During war times Yahweh worship became more prevelant then the others as he was viewed as a war god. In peaceful times we witnessed El and Baal being worshipped.



this never happened

Yahweh never deafeat El or Baal, which El was his father and Baal a brother.

They were all just redacted in under the Yahwist redactors. Its why you see Elohim and Yahweh mentioned as well as many other names like El Elyon and El Shaddai

First off, we need to link your Quote. History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Secondly, although Wikipedia can be a great starting point for information, it is not infallible.



The henotheism and monolotry in the Torah is clearly evident long before the Babylonian Exile;

Deuteronomy 6:14

14 Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you; 15 for YHWH your God , who is among you, is a jealous God

Judges 3:5—6
Thus the Israelites lived among the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; they took their daughters in marriage and gave their own daughters to their sons; and they served their gods.

By the time of the Babylonian Exile in the 6th Century BCE, the trend toward monotheism had already begun.

Isaiah 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is no other;
besides me there is no god…

Much of the OT showed how the Israelites god (Yahweh) overcame and defeated the gods of other tribes.

this never happened

Yahweh never deafeat El or Baal, which El was his father and Baal a brother.

They were all just redacted in under the Yahwist redactors. Its why you see Elohim and Yahweh mentioned as well as many other names like El Elyon and El Shaddai

When Abraham met king Melchizedek of the Canaanite city of Salem, and priest of El Elyon (God Most High), the two of them treat El Elyon and Yahweh the same god,
Genesis 14:18-23
18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of El Anyon, 19 and he blessed Abram, saying,
“Blessed be Abram by EL Anyon,
Creator of heaven and earth.
20 And praise be to El Anyon,
who delivered your enemies into your hand.”


22 But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “With raised hand I have sworn an oath to the YHWH, El Anyon, Creator of heaven and earth, 23 that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the strap of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, ‘I made Abram rich.’


As for overcoming other gods...

Psalm 89:5-8
Yahweh, the assembly of holy ones in heaven applaud the marvel of your faithfulness. Who in the skies can compare with Yahweh? Which of the sons of El rival Him?
El dreaded in the great assembly of holy ones, terrible to all around him, Yahweh, God of armies, who is like you? Mighty Yahweh clothed in your faithfulness.

Psalm 82

Yahweh stands up in the divine assembly, among the gods he dispenses justice:
'No more mockery of justice, no more favoring the wicked!
Let the weak and orphan have justice, be fair to the wretched and the destitute, rescue the week and needy, save the from the clutches of the wicked.'
Ignorant and senseless they carry on blindly.
Undermining the very basis of earthly society.
I once said, "You too are gods, sons of El Anyon, all of you."
But all the same, you shall die like men, as one man, gods, you shall fall.
Rise Yahweh, dispense justice throughout the world, since no nation is excluded from your ownership.


Although Yahweh did not originate as one of the Canaanite gods, Yahweh worship was combined with El Anyon as the god of Israel, while other gods were still recognized.




None of which has to do with volcanoes and Jesus.

 

[The Fog Horn]

A reading of the Torah, with it's frequent warnings from Yahweh against worshiping "other gods", and it's message that Yahweh is "the God of Israel" shows a henotheistic belief.
Granted, henotheism more than likely grew out of polytheism, but tribal identities focused on a particular god for that tribe, while recognizing the existance of the gods of other tribes.
Much of the OT showed how the Israelites god (Yahweh) overcame and defeated the gods of other tribes. Eventually, the "other gods' became "false gods", rendering Yahweh worship monotheistic.

Rendering Yahweh worship a joke considering Yahweh believed in all these other gods. He, at the time, never said they were false. He called them 'gods'....and god is never wrong apparently. So.....who believes in Ba'al?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Rendering Yahweh worship a joke considering Yahweh believed in all these other gods. He, at the time, never said they were false. He called them 'gods'....and god is never wrong apparently. So.....who believes in Ba'al?

No, all it shows is a progression of the beliefs of the Hebrews.
The only real challenge is to those who take every word of the Torah as a literalistic truth. Usually only a problem for biblical fundamentalists and literalistic critics.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

No, all it shows is a progression of the beliefs of the Hebrews.
The only real challenge is to those who take every word of the Torah as a literalistic truth. Usually only a problem for biblical fundamentalists and literalistic critics.

Or those whose sole agenda is the childish and ignorant ridicule of the Tanakh/OT.

 

[outhouse]

First off, we need to link your Quote. History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

did I not post that link already above?

I copied from my post where the link still is placed.

If I need to post it in ever reply let me know so I can stand corrected

Secondly, although Wikipedia can be a great starting point for information, it is not infallible.

if it is wrong, and in this case it is not. It can be changed.


BUT my view is also backed by Israel's head archeologist Israel Finklestein, as well as Dever.

The henotheism and monolotry in the Torah is clearly evident long before the Babylonian Exile;

False


every bit of scripture you posted was edited/redacted to monotheism. all scripture was redacted that way.

this is a fact.

Although Yahweh did not originate as one of the Canaanite gods, Yahweh worship was combined with El Anyon as the god of Israel, while other gods were still recognized.

what your seriously failing to realize is that Yahwist didnt take over unril 622 BC and even then it was not followed by all the pople. Only endorsed so to speak by the yahwist king and jewish religion/governement.


Israelites first formed from polytheistic Canaanites. There is no clear cut exact time this split took place but we know after 1200 BC people did migrate to the highlands, and from archeology there were no cultural markers of Israelites, meaning they were still polytheistic displaced Canaanites.

Art work from from the 800BC era shows drawings of multiple gods including Yahweh's and wife Asherah, and possibly Baal.

http://arthuride.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/yahweh_asherah.jpg?w=500&h=343

recent archeology has uncovered new text that shows ancient Israelites were polytheistic and worshipped a family of gods as shown on wiki's page

again El as the father, and the 72 sons of which Yahweh is one of the sons as well as Baal.



It took a while for strict worship to Yahweh to take hold, and it would be safe to say, henotheism to yahweh didnt even start until after 622 BC which was the switch to monotheism.

all the scripture you posted is evidence after the redaction's that Yahweh was not the only deity still being worshipped, and scripture was changed to direct worshipp to monotheism




so what I posit

is at what date did Israelites become henotheistic in your view????

because when the formed after 1200 BC they were still displaced Canaanites with emerging beliefs with other displaced semetic speaking people in the levant from the many collapsed cultures including those in Mesopotamia

 

[tumbleweed41]

Lets take it to another thread.