jesus's death..

[truthseeker6]

Whether jesus actually died on the cross is just a small detail. Let us focus on the spiritual truths he revealed to mankind (self sacrifice, acceptance, love etc)

 

[Merlin]

It wasn't his crucifixion that payed for our sins. IT was when he was in the garden of gesthemane, bleeding from every pore because the pain was so great that he payed for our sins.

I think it was actually the death. There is a recurring theme throughout the old Testament of blood sacrifices to atoned for sins and to establish a covenant with God. Of course, apart from one famous occasion when somebody nearly sacrificed his son, it was normally a sheep that was ritually slaughtered.

It is generally considered that the crucifixion (fact or myth) was meant to be an actual or metaphorical blood sacrifice to create a new world order and establish a new covenant with God. Because it was such a momentous new covenant, it had to be a momentous sacrifice.

 

[Aqualung]

I think it was actually the death. There is a recurring theme throughout the old Testament of blood sacrifices to atoned for sins and to establish a covenant with God. Of course, apart from one famous occasion when somebody nearly sacrificed his son, it was normally a sheep that was ritually slaughtered.

It wasn't his death. He died so he could be resurrected, and therefore allow us to be resurected. He suffered for our sins.

 

[SoyLeche]

It wasn't his death. He died so he could be resurrected, and therefore allow us to be resurected. He suffered for our sins.

It's all so interrelated such that it is imposible to say what part of the atonement actually 'did' what. The important part is that it happened. We can have a remisison of our sins and we will be reserected because of what Christ did in the Garden and on the Cross.

 

[Merlin]

It wasn't his death. He died so he could be resurrected, and therefore allow us to be resurected. He suffered for our sins.

Mt 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[Aqualung]

Mt 26:28for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Well, I say the blood he shed was in the Garden of Gesthemane when he bled from every pore. You say the blood he shed was when he got crucified. SoyLeche says it's impossible to tell which part did what. I say, let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Linus]

i've been askin myself this question...and asked many of my friends this question but no one seemed to be able to answer me...i guess its a pretty dumb question but..

i was thinkin..
wouldnt anyone have died on that cross to get rid of sin?...why is it so special when jesus did it...if gods idea was to flood the earth or cause a disaster to earth (which he proved he would) because it was overflowed with sin..wouldnt any human being go on that cross and be tortured like that just to prevent the disasters?..i am not trying to make god sound evil...i was just curious..

Why has this thread gone on so long? I thought the answer was simple...

Christ died on the cross because He lived a perfect life, completely 100% free of sin. Only a lamb without blemish could be offered up as a sin offering to God.

Anyone else want to say they are without blemish?

 

[Merlin]

Well, I say the blood he shed was in the Garden of Gesthemane when he bled from every pore. You say the blood he shed was when he got crucified. SoyLeche says it's impossible to tell which part did what. I say, let's just agree to disagree.

I did not think we were agreeing or disagreeing, just discussing.

The idea that somebody could die (or just suffer) to remove the sins of past and future people is such a weird concept. It only makes any sense (if at all) when linked back to the history of Judaism. They had a tradition of sacrificing animals as a gift to God to say sorry. (e.g. Numbers 15:24-28)

They also have a tradition of making covenants with God, ever since he promised that they were His chosen people.

So, unless you accept that the 'Jesus crucifixion story' is continuation of this tradition and is the ultimate blood sacrifice to atone for the sins of the world, then it doesn't make any sense at all.

Similarly, unless you understand and link the story to the historic tradition in Judaism of renewing covenants with God, then you will not understand how this was meant to create a new covenant and a new World order i.e. Christianity.

Otherwise it's just more meaningless jargon.

 

[Aqualung]

I did not think we were agreeing or disagreeing, just discussing.

Well, we were having a discussion in which we disagreed... there's nothing wrong with disagreeing; you don't have to deny we were.

The idea that somebody could die (or just suffer) to remove the sins of past and future people is such a weird concept. It only makes any sense (if at all) when linked back to the history of Judaism. They had a tradition of sacrificing animals as a gift to God to say sorry. (e.g. Numbers 15:24-28)

That's true. And ultimately Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, sacrificed for everbody's sins once and for all.

So, unless you accept that the 'Jesus crucifixion story' is continuation of this tradition and is the ultimate blood sacrifice to atone for the sins of the world, then it doesn't make any sense at all.

True. But I don't know of any christian who doesn't see it as the ultimate blood sacrifice.

 

[Merlin]

Well, we were having a discussion in which we disagreed... there's nothing wrong with disagreeing; you don't have to deny we were.

That's true. And ultimately Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, sacrificed for everbody's sins once and for all.

True. But I don't know of any christian who doesn't see it as the ultimate blood sacrifice.

Okay, then we agree. It was the death not just the suffering which fulfilled the new covenant conditions as set down in Jewish tradition.

 

[danhin]

i've been askin myself this question...and asked many of my friends this question but no one seemed to be able to answer me...i guess its a pretty dumb question but..

i was thinkin..
wouldnt anyone have died on that cross to get rid of sin?...why is it so special when jesus did it...if gods idea was to flood the earth or cause a disaster to earth (which he proved he would) because it was overflowed with sin..wouldnt any human being go on that cross and be tortured like that just to prevent the disasters?..i am not trying to make god sound evil...i was just curious..

i dont think everyone would have gone on that cross....
and it was special, because god offered his only son he had as a sacrifice for others....
but anyway, my religion teaches that jesus did not come to die...why did he pray for the cup to pass him.
how could he the messiah show human weakness when so many prohpets died
without hesitation? why did god prepare his people for 2000 years if jesus only came to die? jesus was the only person on the earth from gods blood-lineage.
our religion teaches he was to create a family and continue gods blood-lineage.
so he prayed not out of weakness but because he knew he wouldnt be able to fulfill his mission.
I mean, if the messiah came to earth now wouldnt we welcome him?
or would we crusify him?
the special thing about the crusifiction was that god lost the only person from his blood-lineage and how was to continue his blood-lineage, while everyone else was from satans blood-lineage.

 

[Darkdale]

it was special, because god offered his only son he had as a sacrifice for others....

Big deal. If Jesus was indeed God, then it wasn't a sacrifice at all, because Jesus would have known he was above death. It is nothing to sacrifice life if you know you are the Eternal God that created all life. If Jesus was a mortal and not a god and died for the sins of others, that would be more impressive, especially if there was no reward.

 

[michel]

i dont think everyone would have gone on that cross....
and it was special, because god offered his only son he had as a sacrifice for others....
but anyway, my religion teaches that jesus did not come to die...why did he pray for the cup to pass him.
how could he the messiah show human weakness when so many prohpets died
without hesitation? why did god prepare his people for 2000 years if jesus only came to die? jesus was the only person on the earth from gods blood-lineage.
our religion teaches he was to create a family and continue gods blood-lineage.
so he prayed not out of weakness but because he knew he wouldnt be able to fulfill his mission.
I mean, if the messiah came to earth now wouldnt we welcome him?
or would we crusify him?
the special thing about the crusifiction was that god lost the only person from his blood-lineage and how was to continue his blood-lineage, while everyone else was from satans blood-lineage.

Hi danhin, do you mind my asking which faith you belong to ?

 

[NoName]

Big deal. If Jesus was indeed God, then it wasn't a sacrifice at all, because Jesus would have known he was above death. It is nothing to sacrifice life if you know you are the Eternal God that created all life. If Jesus was a mortal and not a god and died for the sins of others, that would be more impressive, especially if there was no reward.

If you purposely cut yourself, doesn't it still hurt? Knowing he would suffer and die doesn't change that he went through all that pain for you. It is everything to sacrafice it. If you sacraficed your life for your brother, that's something. That's what Jesus did. He sacraficed his life for all his brothers. Is that not impressive, simply because of relation?

 

[danhin]

Hi danhin, do you mind my asking which faith you belong to ?

i dont mind. im a moonie:162:

 

[danhin]

Big deal. If Jesus was indeed God, then it wasn't a sacrifice at all, because Jesus would have known he was above death. It is nothing to sacrifice life if you know you are the Eternal God that created all life. If Jesus was a mortal and not a god and died for the sins of others, that would be more impressive, especially if there was no reward.

well, he was mortal i never said he wasnt

 

[Melody]

wouldnt anyone have died on that cross to get rid of sin?...why is it so special when jesus did it...if gods idea was to flood the earth or cause a disaster to earth (which he proved he would) because it was overflowed with sin..wouldnt any human being go on that cross and be tortured like that just to prevent the disasters?..i am not trying to make god sound evil...i was just curious..

Why Jesus and not just anyone else? There isn't a human alive that could offer their life for anyone else because their lives are already forfeit because of their sinful nature. Only Christ was sinless.

 

[Melody]

Big deal. If Jesus was indeed God, then it wasn't a sacrifice at all, because Jesus would have known he was above death. It is nothing to sacrifice life if you know you are the Eternal God that created all life. If Jesus was a mortal and not a god and died for the sins of others, that would be more impressive, especially if there was no reward.

Jesus did have a human body which suffered just as our human body would. Worse, He suffered for crimes He did not commit.

This wasn't about "did he suffer enough". It was about offering the perfect sacrifice and all man has to do is repent and accept it.

 

[gtrsgrls]

i was thinkin..
wouldnt anyone have died on that cross to get rid of sin?...why is it so special when jesus did it
..

The reason it had to be jesus who died is because nobody else in the history of the world(or now)has ever been perfect.Jesus didn't deserve to die because he was without sin.He took our place so that we wouldn't have to die.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Why has this thread gone on so long? I thought the answer was simple...

Christ died on the cross because He lived a perfect life, completely 100% free of sin. Only a lamb without blemish could be offered up as a sin offering to God.

Anyone else want to say they are without blemish?

Good Golly Linus I had to read until the 5th page before anyone accurately answered the original question. how frustrating is that?