Jesus claimed to be in the begining with the father. The scriptures claim He created the universe with the father. The koran declares any such claim to be blasphemy for jesus could only be a prophet like every other prophet. Is there truth to either one for certainly the both cannot be true?
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Jeus: more than a prophet
- Thread starter ronlat
- Start date
Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
Of course Jesus was there in the beginning, we were All there in the beginning. We are All part of this everlasting existence. The energy of what makes us who we are today has always been and always will be. We are all "messengers" and "prophets" of existence in our own right. But that's just my perspective.
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend ronlat,
This is only a question of understanding and interpretations.
What friend Runewolf says is true that from what ever point existence started we too started our journey and so along with Jesus we too were there.
What koran states [personal understanding is] that an individual is not the whole but a part of the whole and so a part is representing the whole which is what a prophet IS -representative of the whole.
Both are correct.
Love & rgds
This is only a question of understanding and interpretations.
What friend Runewolf says is true that from what ever point existence started we too started our journey and so along with Jesus we too were there.
What koran states [personal understanding is] that an individual is not the whole but a part of the whole and so a part is representing the whole which is what a prophet IS -representative of the whole.
Both are correct.
Love & rgds
zenzero and runewolf,
I appreaciate your replies to my thread and I believe that I understand your perspectives on the issue but I beg to differ. In the gospel of John chapt.1vs10 it states,"He [Jesus] was in the world and the world was made through[by] him and the world did not know him." The world here in proper context refer to humankind. This is evident in the common understanding that narrative is about his ultimate rejection and crucifixion by the human athourities.The scriptures therefore is being explicit in declaring that he created us; certainly not implying that we too co-existed with him. My reason for posting the thread is to make it clear to my sincere muslim friends that the disciples had come to this knowledge through their walk with Jesus and this is not blasphemy since this hidden revelation is there in various scriptures prior to the newtestament.
I appreaciate your replies to my thread and I believe that I understand your perspectives on the issue but I beg to differ. In the gospel of John chapt.1vs10 it states,"He [Jesus] was in the world and the world was made through[by] him and the world did not know him." The world here in proper context refer to humankind. This is evident in the common understanding that narrative is about his ultimate rejection and crucifixion by the human athourities.The scriptures therefore is being explicit in declaring that he created us; certainly not implying that we too co-existed with him. My reason for posting the thread is to make it clear to my sincere muslim friends that the disciples had come to this knowledge through their walk with Jesus and this is not blasphemy since this hidden revelation is there in various scriptures prior to the newtestament.
Not Bob
Member
Jesus referred to his disciples as brothers, and referred to God when addressing the disciples as either the Father or our Father (remember the Lord's prayer, when a disciple asked how they should pray, and Jesus said pray like this "Our Father"), so if the disciples were Jesus's brothers, and God was their father, then they all, and vicariously everyone, are on equal standing with Jesus. In effect, as H Emile Cady said, "anyone of us can say "I and the Father are one" and speak only absolute truth." Just my persepctive anyway.
kai
ragamuffin
both are true to those who are believers, why have you have referenced two opposing belief systems?
kai
ragamuffin
Unfortunately you will not make anything clear to our Muslim friends ronlat , it is you who must understand that the Quran is the unalterable word of god and to deny the Quran is blasphemy. you must not try to interweave the two religions ,they are different.
SATYAKI
New Member
Different religions have different perspectives.
I think the only important thing that should be counted is that he was a great enlightened master, and a great humanist who spread the teachings of peace, love and unconditional love and non-violence.
Eze 29:3 Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt (Man), the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.
= A Biblical Dragon.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
= False teachers saying Yeshua made the river.
Rev 2:14-15 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam (Micah 6:5-8 = God doesn't require sacrifice), who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication (worshiping anything other then God). (15) in this fashion hast thou therefore hold the doctrine (gospel) of the Nicolaitans (form of Nicholas = Nicodemus), which thing I hate.
= Gospel of John --> Nicodemus a Pharisee high councilor, who doesn't match the speech of Yeshua in the slightest, as it uses "EGO I-mee" ("I AM") when in Matt, Mark and Luke, Yeshua doesn't, plus warns against those who will attempt to fool many by it.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
= 23 elder + 1 lamb = 24
Rev 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
= Witnessed this in my own NDE, Yeshua sits right as warriors do and Sages sit left of the circle. :angel2:
= A Biblical Dragon.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
= False teachers saying Yeshua made the river.
Rev 2:14-15 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam (Micah 6:5-8 = God doesn't require sacrifice), who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication (worshiping anything other then God). (15) in this fashion hast thou therefore hold the doctrine (gospel) of the Nicolaitans (form of Nicholas = Nicodemus), which thing I hate.
= Gospel of John --> Nicodemus a Pharisee high councilor, who doesn't match the speech of Yeshua in the slightest, as it uses "EGO I-mee" ("I AM") when in Matt, Mark and Luke, Yeshua doesn't, plus warns against those who will attempt to fool many by it.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
= 23 elder + 1 lamb = 24
Rev 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
= Witnessed this in my own NDE, Yeshua sits right as warriors do and Sages sit left of the circle. :angel2:
Wandered Off
Sporadic Driveby Member
Welcome to RF, ronlat. You may get more responses if you post your topic in Religious Debates.