Jewish afterlife and the world to come.?

[Terrywoodenpic]

I have been looking through the web to find what Jews believe about the afterlife and the world to come.
This is at least partly because I have rather heretical beliefs on this from a Christian point of view.
( I believe all souls come from and return to God,(and are therefor indestructible) The process of repentance and forgiveness Purifies the soul, so as to be able to face God.) ( I would suppose reincarnation is possible to further God's purpose, but is not the norm). Salvation is not one of my beliefs.

When I read what is said, on Jewish sites, I find that thoughts of rebirth or the afterlife are not priorities, but "How we live our lives " is.

Questions about rebirth, resurrection and reincarnation, seem to have varied over time and by the Jewish group involved.

I get the impression that, like myself, the after life is not seen as as a reward, but as the normal progression for virtually everyone into eternity.

However I see that some groups concentrate on a rebirth following the arrival of the Messiah, which I find somewhat confusing.

What I have written is very abbreviated, little more than a snapshot, of my confusion.

I would be interested to hear a snapshot Of what Jews really believe.
Thanks

 

[dantech]

Opinions vary about the afterlife and world to come. Most Orthodox Jews agree that after death, the soul of the person spends some time burning off the sins it has committed in its lifetime to then be sent off to the world to come, being completely pure. Just like in Christianity, Repentance purifies the soul. Not only that, but a fully dedicated repentance for a Love of God turns the sins into good deeds.

About reincarnation, it becomes more complicated. The way Orthodox Sages see it is that when a human dies, he may get a second chance in coming back and rectifying some of the things he wasn't able to do during his life-time. There have been examples given of souls who came back because the person was so into studying Torah, that he didn't dedicate time to raising a family, which is one of the most important laws we have. Another example I read is of a baby who died a few months after birth because his soul is actually the one of a very righteous man who grew in time of war and was fed breast milk of a non Jewish mother, whose milk wasn't kosher. The only thing this soul needed to get cleansed of is not eating kosher (even if involuntary). It might seem far fetched and exaggerated, but I am only giving you a few examples of what I have read.

Afterlife, while maybe not being a reward since virtually everyone ends up progressing there as you said, has different "levels of access" that can be dependable on the way a person led his life on this world. In a way, you may end up getting a huge palace in the world to come, or you may end up getting a little tent. This is how it is seen as a reward. What you need to know is that when a sin is punishable by Karet, Orthodox sages agree that the soul loses its portion in the world to come.

Belief in the eventual resurrection of the dead is a fundamental belief of traditional Judaism. It was a belief that distinguished the Pharisees (intellectual ancestors of Rabbinical Judaism) from the Sadducees. The Sadducees rejected the concept, because it is not explicitly mentioned in the Torah. The Pharisees found the concept implied in certain verses. Belief in resurrection of the dead is one of Rambam's 13 Principles of Faith. The second blessing of the Shemoneh Esrei prayer, which is recited three times daily, contains several references to resurrection. Reform Judaism, which rejects this belief, has rewritten the second blessing accordingly.

In the messianic age, the messiah will come to initiate the perfect world of peace and prosperity. The righteous dead will come back to life and be given the opportunity to experience the perfected world that their righteousness helped create.

I would go more into detail but am out of time. Please let me know if there are more questions, or anything in specific you would like to go deeper into.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Thanks for the reply...
From what you say I infer that you believe a soul retains his human identity.
Is that believed by all Jews or just Orthodox?

From what you say you believe that you will live an after life in a world like situation. ?
What do those Jews who do not believe in Reincarnation/ resurrection think happens to souls in the afterlife.?

As the afterlife is eternal, why would you expect to to be a reflection/ duplicate of life on earth?

 

[Levite]

I have been looking through the web to find what Jews believe about the afterlife and the world to come.
This is at least partly because I have rather heretical beliefs on this from a Christian point of view.
( I believe all souls come from and return to God,(and are therefor indestructible) The process of repentance and forgiveness Purifies the soul, so as to be able to face God.) ( I would suppose reincarnation is possible to further God's purpose, but is not the norm). Salvation is not one of my beliefs.

When I read what is said, on Jewish sites, I find that thoughts of rebirth or the afterlife are not priorities, but "How we live our lives " is.

Questions about rebirth, resurrection and reincarnation, seem to have varied over time and by the Jewish group involved.

I get the impression that, like myself, the after life is not seen as as a reward, but as the normal progression for virtually everyone into eternity.

However I see that some groups concentrate on a rebirth following the arrival of the Messiah, which I find somewhat confusing.

What I have written is very abbreviated, little more than a snapshot, of my confusion.

I would be interested to hear a snapshot Of what Jews really believe.
Thanks

I've talked a lot about aspects of afterlife in these various other posts right here, and I would be happy to expand on any of the points therein, or any further questions....

 

[Tarheeler]

I'll be glad to give you my take on it, but keep in mind that isn't necessarily representative of anything. I've read something similar in Jewish sources and I know people who do share similar ideas, but I can't give you any indication of how popular it is.

I get the impression that, like myself, the after life is not seen as as a reward, but as the normal progression for virtually everyone into eternity.

I agree with this, for the most part.

I don't think the souls is a representation of us. It comes from God, and returns to God when we die while our bodies return to dust. Souls are eternal but not individual, and are reused as new people are born in an endless cycle (think more along the lines of recycling that reincarnation here).

I have no clue what will happen in The World to Come. I think it's quite possible that all the talk of resurrection is metaphor, and only those alive at that time will experience it. That it is our goal to prepare the world for the messiah, and that it will be our descendants will be the ones to enjoy the fruits of our labor. Considering that Judaism is a communal religion and places great emphasis on the group as a whole, I think that's fully in line with Jewish beliefs.

Either way, if I live my life following the mitzvot, then I've done what I need to do and whatever happens, happens.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

See here ...

 

[dantech]

See here ...

Forgot about this one.

 

[dantech]

Thanks for the reply...

No problem...

From what you say I infer that you believe a soul retains his human identity.

The answer to this question could be very confusing and perhaps won't satisfy you. It seems like the soul and the human are one. But this is also true with all the other bodies the soul has been in, yet all these bodies are not one. They have each led different lives. The only thing is that during their lives, their only job, spiritually, is Tikkun Olam. This job is shared between all the human bodies the soul has been in.

Is that believed by all Jews or just Orthodox?

I don't know, you would have to ask people of the other movements.

From what you say you believe that you will live an after life in a world like situation. ?

I hope I will be granted the right to have my portion in the World to Come, hoping I didn't commit any sins punishable by Kareit or that I have repented on them. There are many different opinions on the World to Come, but I don't think it really will be like this world situation we are in. Laws of nature will be second to the laws of spirituality. There will be world peace. Everyone will agree and acknowledge that God is one and is the creator of the universe, etc..

What do those Jews who do not believe in Reincarnation/ resurrection think happens to souls in the afterlife.?

Some believe in a different version of afterlife, while others believe we just rot underground and nothing comes next. I can't answer for the others as I don't know their opinions.

[/quote]As the afterlife is eternal, why would you expect to to be a reflection/ duplicate of life on earth?[/QUOTE]

I don't expect it to be a reflection, and not everybody agrees that it is eternal. Levite posted many links with a lot of information, and Jay posted another link where we both spoke about the World to Come briefly. By reading those, you should get a better understanding

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Thanks to every one for their help,especially Levite who gave long and detailed links to past posts on the subject.

It seems that my own beliefs sit somewhat imperfectly but clearly within the Gamut of Jewish thought on the matter. Certainly more so than in the expected Christian context.

I am coming to believe that "Gods plan" is more a collective target for the betterment of this particular world and the universe at large, than a predestined personal journey.
However I am many miles from accepting the need to follow "Jewish Law" for these targets to be achieved. Though I accept that the Jews are "Contracted" to follow that path.

An Individual life is too brief to disturb the line of eternity.

 

[Flankerl]

However I am many miles from accepting the need to follow "Jewish Law" for these targets to be achieved.

Well for a non-jew there is no such need. Some jews think that everything is alright if a non-jew just follows the 7 laws of Noah.

 

[dantech]

Well for a non-jew there is no such need. Some jews think that everything is alright if a non-jew just follows the 7 laws of Noah.

Some Jews? Are there movements or sects that don't believe in the Noahide Laws?

 

[Levite]

Some Jews? Are there movements or sects that don't believe in the Noahide Laws?

Many if not most Liberal (non-Orthodox) Jews do not literally believe in the Noahide commandments. They understand them to be a creation of the Rabbanim-- optimistic, maybe, or idealistic; but not literally descriptive of what God expects of non-Jews.

 

[dantech]

Many if not most Liberal (non-Orthodox) Jews do not literally believe in the Noahide commandments. They understand them to be a creation of the Rabbanim-- optimistic, maybe, or idealistic; but not literally descriptive of what God expects of non-Jews.

I did not know that. Thank you.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I suspect all religious non-Jews have fairly established beliefs as to what God expects of them.

"Religions" tend not to ask each other, what their duties toward God and how to live their lives, might be.

 

[1137]

From my perspective on religious Judaism, it is much more mystical. All is a part of God, God himself says this. If everything from light / good to darkness / evil are of God, I doubt humans are exempt. So, we do not really have a personal soul, we are simply and aspect of God. Our soul becomes One with the All without this perception of duality that 'material' beings have. If this is the case, there really is no afterlife.

Just my perspective though. I have always viewed my birth religion as more mystical than monotheistic. If it counts for more, my family is religiously conservative and tend to agree with the perspective I have presented.

 

[1137]

I suspect all religious non-Jews have fairly established beliefs as to what God expects of them.

"Religions" tend not to ask each other, what their duties toward God and how to live their lives, might be.

God expects us to be good people and help other. My Bubbe is orthodox (though much less so now, plus practiced conservatively since she thinks the orthodox are too old school) and she believes that God has no issues with me even though I outright reject His existence. As I said, all is God. God made me in such a way so my mind is strictly based around reason and evidence. So, it is not even my fault for not believing in God because God makes me in a way where I do not believe. As said, everything is God but simply with the illusion of duality. To my knowledge, we believe in very hard determinism. During the high holidays we even recognize that God has written who will die in the next year in the Book of Life. Whether by water, fire, etc, it has been written.

The funny thing about typing this is I am a strong atheist haha.

 

[Levite]

From my perspective on religious Judaism, it is much more mystical. All is a part of God, God himself says this. If everything from light / good to darkness / evil are of God, I doubt humans are exempt. So, we do not really have a personal soul, we are simply and aspect of God. Our soul becomes One with the All without this perception of duality that 'material' beings have. If this is the case, there really is no afterlife.

So, in other words, you're a Lurianic Kabbalist of the old Lubavitch school. Because what you're describing could come right out of the Alter Rebbe's Tanyah. :yes:

To my knowledge, we believe in very hard determinism. During the high holidays we even recognize that God has written who will die in the next year in the Book of Life. Whether by water, fire, etc, it has been written.

Actually, we tend not to be quite that deterministic in practice. Remember, the High Holiday liturgy-- like all our liturgies-- are poetry, and filled with imagery that is metaphorical, or allegorical, or hyperbolic, or fluid and mutable in some other ways.

Even in the liturgy itself, the list at the end of the u'netaneh tokef prayer that you're citing, after it describes all of the aspects of life that God has "already decreed" notes that the way in which these things affect us and our lives is alterable by our own actions: teshuvah, u'tefillah, u'tzedakah ma'avirin et ro'ah ha-gezerah "repentance, prayer, and acts of justice can negate the evilness of what is decreed." Which is a far less "hard" determinism even taken upon its face, and most of us do not take prayers like u'netaneh tokef literally.

Granted, there are some authorities who understand the theology of life to be more deterministic, and some who understand it to be less so. But the general historical trend in the evolution of Rabbinic Judaism has been to move away from strict determinism.

The thinkers I have always related to the best tend to imply that we exist in a complex confluence of free will and the divine plan-- to which some more recently have added, and the natural chaos and entropy inherent in the physical universe, which I very much agree with.

We are definitely not a religion free of determinism-- we have overwhelmingly believed that God's will has a place and an effect in the universe and in our lives-- but we have increasingly become very "softly" deterministic, as we understand the unfettered nature of human free will, and the ways in which the universe that God created uses randomness and chaos as elements in its natural structure.

 

[Marco19]

Shalom,

In Daniel 12:2

2. And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awaken-these for eternal life, and those for disgrace, for eternal abhorrence.

Rashi's Commentary says:

And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awaken: The dead will come to life.

Daniel - Chapter 12 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

i always have this question: why he says many and not all?
many includes both righteous and wicked, and Daniel mentions the fate of each group, so i wonder why not all being resurrected since reward/punishment will be provided?

 

[dantech]

Shalom,

In Daniel 12:2


Rashi's Commentary says:

Daniel - Chapter 12 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

i always have this question: why he says many and not all?
many includes both righteous and wicked, and Daniel mentions the fate of each group, so i wonder why not all being resurrected since reward/punishment will be provided?

Shalom,

I think the most common explanation is that when you commit certain sins, you are Chayav Kareit (Cut off from His nation). When you are Chayav Kareit, you are cut off from the World To Come, which is where/when the resurrection will take place. Of course, there are tikkunim (Reperations) available for all the sins you have committed, assuming you are sincere in your repentance. But unfortunately, for those who haven't been able to repent these particular sins before they died, they might not have access to The World To Come, and therefore will not resurect.

 

[Marco19]

Shalom,

I think the most common explanation is that when you commit certain sins, you are Chayav Kareit (Cut off from His nation). When you are Chayav Kareit, you are cut off from the World To Come, which is where/when the resurrection will take place. Of course, there are tikkunim (Reperations) available for all the sins you have committed, assuming you are sincere in your repentance. But unfortunately, for those who haven't been able to repent these particular sins before they died, they might not have access to The World To Come, and therefore will not resurect.

Thank you dear dantech, that was really helpful

may i ask one more question about those particular sins? is it sort of a known list? something from the Mitzvah?

Thanks in advance