Jewish Rabbi admits Islam is the oldest Religion.

[faroukfarouk]

 

[Tumah]

If you understood what the Rabbi was saying, you will realize that what he was doing is calling all monotheistic beliefs besides for Judaism "Islam". Using the Rabbi's logic, you could call them Sikhs or Baha'i as well. But since he seems to be on a Muslim program, I guess he chose a name that would be more relevant to its viewers...

As to the rest of the video, I don't see anything Islamic there. There's a Yemenite synagogue from about 2 minutes in. As well as some Yemenites who follow Maimonides' rulings regarding certain Jewish practices.
Then about 7 1/2 minutes in, there's a video of this crazy convert on youtube who - not being very well verses in Jewish Law - thinks he's teaching Jews the correct way to perform certain prayers.
Lastly the video ends with a bunch of different groups bowing in the way that was probably quite common many years ago. Although its not quite clear why that would have any relevance to Islam.

 

[Neo Deist]

He too, is wrong. The oldest religion would be some type of pagan animism most likely.

 

[Godobeyer]

He too, is wrong. The oldest religion would be some type of pagan animism most likely.

Except if Adam (pbuh) and Eve (pbuh) were not believer.

 

[Neo Deist]

Except if Adam (pbuh) and Eve (pbuh) were not believer.

What does that have to do with earlier people worshiping animals?

 

[faroukfarouk]

Peace to all
Please before posting listen to what Rabbi is saying very attentively.
If you did not understand the gist of his speech then listen again so that you will get a very clear understanding of what he is saying.
Frankly he is saying Islam existed before any other man made Religion was born.
Read what Benyamin Abramson has to say.

" I am Benyamin Abramson. I am an orthodox Chasidic Jew from Israel and I work as a historian or a kind of consultant to the court in Jerusalem that Rabbi Hollander is talking about. Most of the people here know me from my endless discussions about the similarities between Islam and Jewish customs. I enjoy talking about the hadith, tabari, ibn hisham, wakidi, talking about the kings of chimyar as much as I enjoy talking about the Midrash Rabbah, the Midrash Geulah, Rambam, Tosafot, the Shulchan Aruch. I like very much to talk about common prayer customs between Islam and Judaism, about the similarities in architecture between the ma****h and the synagogue, between the similarities in the calendar, the Jewish holidays and customs. But it’s clear to me that there are more than just similarities, that they obviously go back to a common root, a common faith.

So, when talking about a common heritage, in our jewish literature we are taught that there is such a thing as a common faith. A fundamental religion which all men are born into…and this is a basic faith which is obligated on all mankind. In the past we’ve called it by different names: yireh shamayim (which means the people who fear heaven), or ger toshav or bnei noach (children of noach). During greek/Hellenistic times it was called theosabayah…and according to the school of thought of rabbi benamozegh this fundamental faith is also called by the name Islam.

Some have suggested that this refers to the great numbers of non-Jewish believers who came to sacrifice the korban shlamim in Jerusalem together with the Jews. Salamai, muslemai (muslemi)-this could be a clear indication in our literature that Islam is an ancient religion dating back to the time of the second Temple or even earlier. And if Islams’ roots, if the roots of Islam are the same as what we call Bnei Noach then for us it is much older. This is the religion of Noach, this is the religion of Adam himself.

The closeness of Islam and Judaism has always been understood by biblical scholars until recent years. The close relationship with the Jews, the 10 lost Tribes, the Arabs, the Rachabites (?) all this was assumed to be true. It was only with the advent of German revisionist like Wellhausen and Buchner (SP?) and others that this began to change. They introduced the idea that Islam had something to do with worshipping the moon, rocks or some asteroid that fell. But devout Jews know that this is not true. It is a fact of Jewish Law that we believe that Muslims are perfect monotheists; they worship the same G-d that we do."

The question is are there any other Jews that is prepared to accept what has been written.

 

[Tumah]

Peace to all
Please before posting listen to what Rabbi is saying very attentively.
If you did not understand the gist of his speech then listen again so that you will get a very clear understanding of what he is saying.
Frankly he is saying Islam existed before any other man made Religion was born.
Read what Benyamin Abramson has to say.

" I am Benyamin Abramson. I am an orthodox Chasidic Jew from Israel and I work as a historian or a kind of consultant to the court in Jerusalem that Rabbi Hollander is talking about. Most of the people here know me from my endless discussions about the similarities between Islam and Jewish customs. I enjoy talking about the hadith, tabari, ibn hisham, wakidi, talking about the kings of chimyar as much as I enjoy talking about the Midrash Rabbah, the Midrash Geulah, Rambam, Tosafot, the Shulchan Aruch. I like very much to talk about common prayer customs between Islam and Judaism, about the similarities in architecture between the ma****h and the synagogue, between the similarities in the calendar, the Jewish holidays and customs. But it’s clear to me that there are more than just similarities, that they obviously go back to a common root, a common faith.

So, when talking about a common heritage, in our jewish literature we are taught that there is such a thing as a common faith. A fundamental religion which all men are born into…and this is a basic faith which is obligated on all mankind. In the past we’ve called it by different names: yireh shamayim (which means the people who fear heaven), or ger toshav or bnei noach (children of noach). During greek/Hellenistic times it was called theosabayah…and according to the school of thought of rabbi benamozegh this fundamental faith is also called by the name Islam.

Some have suggested that this refers to the great numbers of non-Jewish believers who came to sacrifice the korban shlamim in Jerusalem together with the Jews. Salamai, muslemai (muslemi)-this could be a clear indication in our literature that Islam is an ancient religion dating back to the time of the second Temple or even earlier. And if Islams’ roots, if the roots of Islam are the same as what we call Bnei Noach then for us it is much older. This is the religion of Noach, this is the religion of Adam himself.

The closeness of Islam and Judaism has always been understood by biblical scholars until recent years. The close relationship with the Jews, the 10 lost Tribes, the Arabs, the Rachabites (?) all this was assumed to be true. It was only with the advent of German revisionist like Wellhausen and Buchner (SP?) and others that this began to change. They introduced the idea that Islam had something to do with worshipping the moon, rocks or some asteroid that fell. But devout Jews know that this is not true. It is a fact of Jewish Law that we believe that Muslims are perfect monotheists; they worship the same G-d that we do."

The question is are there any other Jews that is prepared to accept what has been written.

I can't debate with you in this DIR, but this transcript proves what I'm saying. The school of thought of Rabbi Benamozegh whom this guy quotes here (who is not the universally accepted opinion), is that all monotheistic religions are acceptable expressions of Noahidism.

That's what this guy is saying here. He is saying that Islam is an expression of Noahidism and therefore Noahidism can also be called Islam. According to Benamozegh, all monotheistic religions share this feature, so they can all be called Noahidism or conversely call Noahidism by all their names. Benamozegh happened to have been more attached to Christianity, while this guy seems to favor Islam. But that's the gist of what he's saying. I assume he also has some stake in inter-religion relations, so he's framing it in a way that sounds positive for Islam. But essentially what he's saying is that Islam is a form of Noahidism.

From what I was able to gather online, he seems to be connected to the site "WikiNoah". On that site, they go through various religions and explain how they could conform or what they would need to change in order to conform with Noahide principles.

According to some additional information that I was able to find, this rabbi also believes that the name "Islam" was derived from the Aramaic name of the Kenites who were the children of Jethro. The Aramaic Targums call them "SHaLaMai". And this rabbi believes that they were called this because they used to bring the SHeLaMim sacrifice at the Jewish Temple (he doesn't offer any proof of this). Both these words share the root "SH-L-M". In Arabic as in Hebrew, the letters S and SH are the same letter bearing different diacritics. Its common for the Hebrew and Aramaic letter "SH" to be turned to an "S" in Arabic, such as "SHaLoM" = "SaLaM". So this guy believes that Muslims took their name from the SHaLaMai and made it ISLaM.

I would also point out, that posting the radical views of one person as the "true" Jewish view would be equivalent to me posting the views of Sheikh Ahmed Aladoan of Amman as the "true" Islamic view.

 

[Godobeyer]

What does that have to do with earlier people worshiping animals?

I meant the first religion ever was worshiping God, In Islam view, my Christianity and Judaism agree on this too.

then people started/decline to worship stones and animals ...etc.

 

[Neo Deist]

I meant the first religion ever was worshiping God...

Not debating, just pointing out that that is incorrect. Religions predate the Abrahamics by thousands of years.

 

[Godobeyer]

Not debating, just pointing out that that is incorrect. Religions predate the Abrahamics by thousands of years.

Since Adman(pbuh) and Even (pbuh) were Muslims, first believers to God, so there is not predate religions.

Ibrahim (pbuh) come after.

 

[YmirGF]

Not debating, just pointing out that that is incorrect. Religions predate the Abrahamics by thousands of years.

You have to keep in mind that many Muslims believe the first humans were Adam and Eve.

 

[Neo Deist]

You have to keep in mind that many Muslims believe the first humans were Adam and Eve.

Yeah, I gathered after reading his last statement. Genetics has proven otherwise, but it's all good. People are entitled to their beliefs...even the archaic disproven ones.

 

[Akivah]

The question is are there any other Jews that is prepared to accept what has been written.

My question is, why did you ask a question directly to Jews in the Islam DIR?

 

[columbus]

Since Adman(pbuh) and Even (pbuh) were Muslims, first believers to God, so there is not predate religions.

Ibrahim (pbuh) come after.

This is proof enough for me that Islam was invented in the 7th century.

There are cultures who had religion centuries before Abraham conjured up his god. And even then Abraham believed in other gods, he just didn't worship them.
Tom

 

[Godobeyer]

This is proof enough for me that Islam was invented in the 7th century.

There are cultures who had religion centuries before Abraham conjured up his god. And even then Abraham believed in other gods, he just didn't worship them.
Tom

Excuse me !
How is that?

 

[Godobeyer]

I can't debate with you in this DIR,

This is just explainations

change in order to conform with Noahide principles.

According to some additional information that I was able to find, this rabbi also believes that the name "Islam" was derived from the Aramaic name of the Kenites who were the children of Jethro. The Aramaic Targums call them "SHaLaMai". And this rabbi believes that they were called this because they used to bring the SHeLaMim sacrifice at the Jewish Temple (he doesn't offer any proof of this). Both these words share the root "SH-L-M". In Arabic as in Hebrew, the letters S and SH are the same letter bearing different diacritics. Its common for the Hebrew and Aramaic letter "SH" to be turned to an "S" in Arabic, such as "SHaLoM" = "SaLaM". So this guy believes that Muslims took their name from the SHaLaMai and made it ISLaM.

I would also point out, that posting the radical views of one person as the "true" Jewish view would be equivalent to me posting the views of Sheikh Ahmed Aladoan of Amman as the "true" Islamic view.

If you understood what the Rabbi was saying, you will realize that what he was doing is calling all monotheistic beliefs besides for Judaism "Islam". Using the Rabbi's logic, you could call them Sikhs or Baha'i as well. But since he seems to be on a Muslim program, I guess he chose a name that would be more relevant to its viewers...

As to the rest of the video, I don't see anything Islamic there. There's a Yemenite synagogue from about 2 minutes in. As well as some Yemenites who follow Maimonides' rulings regarding certain Jewish practices.
Then about 7 1/2 minutes in, there's a video of this crazy convert on youtube who - not being very well verses in Jewish Law - thinks he's teaching Jews the correct way to perform certain prayers.
Lastly the video ends with a bunch of different groups bowing in the way that was probably quite common many years ago. Although its not quite clear why that would have any relevance to Islam.

 

[Godobeyer]

You have to keep in mind that many Muslims believe the first humans were Adam and Eve.

You right ,many

I do believe it's very probably there were creatures similiare to humans before Adam (pbuh) and Eve(pbuh) were first sane humans, had ability to learn

Is Bible tells there were humans before Adam(pbuh) and Even(pbuh)

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

The similarities exist because they BOTH come form a much MUCH earlier tradition found in ancient SUMER....Check out this thread for full details :

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/the-origin-of-all-earths-religions.190544/

The OLDEST RELIGION in the ENTIRE world - as in a structured institutionalized religion - is actually the worship of "off world travelers" who we worshipped perhaps AS gods but who themselves fully admit they are NOT gods at all... They even state quite openly that THIS form of religion was instigated on purpose as a means to ensure our domination and to keep us respectfully subserviant TO them always.....Religion then starts off ACTUALLY as a POLITICAL TOOL and at first has NO spiritual element at all - purely PHYSICAL flesh and blood beings exactly like You and I - they walk talk live among us - even marry and breed WITH us - and as I explain in that thread quite literally ALL the world religions come from THIS origin...

we should NOT confuse RELIGION - with LEGITIMATE SPIRITUALITY - for they are two entirely different issues....Religion IS polotics and is a purely mortal wordly business with mortal worldly power agendas - spirituality though IS seeking the DIVINE and mankind has ALWAYS done that even before these religions arose...Indeed -there is an ELEMENT o f spiritual truth inthat ORIGINAL Sumer narrative -again see the other thread for details - but whenthe Divine truly shows up here it will BAFFLE and confuse these so called "gods" and they openly admit all this in their ORIGINAL account....Go read it - google Enki and Enlil - and you will at the same time discover the legitimate origins of the one we call Allah / Yhvh....

In context then - how it actually played out here in the real world - FIRST there was SUMER and these LIVING PEOPLE that PRETEND to be gods !!! They spread to the ENTIRE EARTH - all fully recorded for us to see - NEXT came a whole pantheon of different "godly identities" as these INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE set themselves up ruling patron nations AS a "god"... And I do mean ALL THE GODS WE HAVE EVER KNOWN - they ALL come form Sumer and THIS same group of LIVING PEOPLE !! Their exploits and histories are very easy to see and trace in this modern internet age..

Eventually there is infighting and a vying for superior position among these so called "gods" - and so in that region we call Middle East - Holy Land - place where it all starts - the exploits of TWO of this group of wannabe gods - two brothers who are Royal princes actually - their deeds will become fused together as one narrative that will give rise TO the Hebrew god we call Yhvh...THEIR narrative recorded FIRST and THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE any Hebrew nation ever existed, tells and shows us clearly the ENTIRE foundational Hebrew religion...Literally EVERY MAJOR CHARACTER AND STORY - is recorded FIRST in ancient Sumer - and as I say, they are NOT GODS but FLESH AND BLOOD PEOPLE !!

There is no sign hint or trace of ANYTHING Divine or spiritual in THEIR narrative -and it is FROM their narrative the Hebrew tradition will fully develop....NOTHING DIVINE - and as said - WHEN the Divine do finally reveal their Presence it BAFFLES these other "wannabe " gods completely - they have NO CLUE about spirit and openly admit it...

The Hebrew religion and THAT particular form of "god" arose fully out of a GROUP of gods that were ACTUAL PEOPLE and not "gods" at all.. They fought among themselves continously - and had US also fight on their behalf of course - none more so than this one of the Hebrews who set about having the Jews invade and conquer the entire region wiping out all opposing tribes and their "patron gods" until "yhvh" was left supreme in that region........Then finally - my mate CHRIST shows up - tells the Hebrews the TRUTH of their "god" - in that it is NOT a god He said - but a trickster imposter - claiming superiority but it IS NOT DIVINE - proved that truth of course with MIRACLES that no "priest fo yhvh2 could possible attain themselves thus showing them to be fraud and Christ to be legitmate Divine truth...

Then as we know they MURDER Christ to stop this truth from spreading and to cleave to their own power and status - but it was already too late the damage done and Christ truth fractured and destroyed foundational acceptance of that bogus god Yhvh and its religious stranglehold...The Jewish faith broke apart became many many new religions -all fully confused now trying to make sense of political and SPIRITUAL upheavel like they had never seen before - His truth was RADICAL - of the DIVINE that NONE had ever known before

And so the wannabe "gods" take a different tact now - foundation destroyed with the Hebrews - truth out in the open now thanks to Christ - cover well and truly blown there - so the god lets the dust settle so to speak -then simlpy ABANDONS the Hebrews altogether - and goes off for a "new chosen patron nation" - and so Islam is finally revealed to the world - yet another "religion" to force the world to bow and submit to a bogus wannabe imposter "god" that is not truly Divine at all......

In the actual real world history of all this - it was PEOPLE who came first - PRETENDED to be gods - then the true Divine showed up and ruined their scheme showed mankind legitimate truth - so the wannabe god tried again with a new nation and seems to have most once again fully decieved...Hebrew Judaic came BEFORE Islam in our history of the real world events - and these in turn come from fully PHYSICAL origins easily traced back to ancient Sumer - NOT GODS AT ALL - but just flesh and blood PEOPLE - CREATURES exactly like You and I....

NOT DIVINE - for that truth we must forget this religious malarky altogether - shun and avoid it just as Christ advised - as always - for those with ears to hear

 

[Jedster]

If you understood what the Rabbi was saying, you will realize that what he was doing is calling all monotheistic beliefs besides for Judaism "Islam". Using the Rabbi's logic, you could call them Sikhs or Baha'i as well. But since he seems to be on a Muslim program, I guess he chose a name that would be more relevant to its viewers...

As to the rest of the video, I don't see anything Islamic there. There's a Yemenite synagogue from about 2 minutes in. As well as some Yemenites who follow Maimonides' rulings regarding certain Jewish practices.
Then about 7 1/2 minutes in, there's a video of this crazy convert on youtube who - not being very well verses in Jewish Law - thinks he's teaching Jews the correct way to perform certain prayers.
Lastly the video ends with a bunch of different groups bowing in the way that was probably quite common many years ago. Although its not quite clear why that would have any relevance to Islam.

Hi Tumah,
The ways this been presented to me over years is like this,

Muslims are monotheists.
Adam, Eve, Abraham etc were montheists.
Therefore all monotheists are Muslims.

It just needs all the monotheists who don't admit this to come out of denial.
Yes? Please?

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

lol - that above is ENTIRELY back to front then lol

See the JUDAIC aspect came first - THEY worshipped the monotheistic god FIRST before Islam was ever conceived - therefore ACTUALLY all so called "muslims" are ACTUALLY JEWS and this IS undeniable given the logic presented above...

Still - it matter not - as NONE of them know my Father or worship the true Divine as revealed by Christ alone - the label they choose to call themselves can not alter this fact