Jews and Gentiles

[tomspug]

There has been a lot of bad history, and there is this fallacy now that Judaism and Christianity are completely different religions. But the truth is that Judaism is a religion that believes in Jehovah and that they are His chosen people. Christianity is the revelation that the Jewish race was a vehicle for the salvation of ALL people, including Jews. Both religions believe in Jehovah.

The Old Testament: God's covenant with the Jews
The New Testament: The fulfillment of that covenant/the new covenant for both Jews and Gentiles

Obviously, Jesus's disciples were Jews. Jesus himself was a Jew. So, even though there has been hatred of Jews in the past, Christianity and Judaism are actually brothers who should each accept the other.

 

[Sunstone]

What do you wish to debate?

 

[TrueBlue2]

I agree with these statements Tomspug. Interesting that you would title it "Jews and Gentiles." Who are the Gentiles?

 

[Francine]

Christianity and Judaism are actually brothers who should each accept the other.

The Catholic Church refers to the Jews as our elder brethren, because God first spoke to them, and unto them were trusted the divine oracles. Paul predicts that all of Israel will convert to Christianity. Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

[Ronald]

By that analogy and your Presidents, Muslims are also your brothers.
But in reallity they are three different religions!
MJ and Judaism are the same way of life, but one seeing their Deliverer and those who are not yet seeing.

Shalom

 

[Katzpur]

What do you wish to debate?

Probably the truth of what he just said. Since I agree with him, I won't have much to contribute until someone disagrees and presents an alternative point of view.

 

[ChristineES]

I don't know about other Christians but I consider Jews my "brothers and sisters". Maybe that is because I do have Jews in my family history.

 

[Somkid]

Yes, and Islam is the next in the series...

 

[doppelganger]

Yes, and Islam is the next in the series...

And then Baha'i . . . and then . . .

 

[Somkid]

And then Baha'i . . . and then . . .

Yes, I didn't think about it that way but in the progression of things that would only be logical. That would also be good news for me as the Baha'i faith tends to apply a bit more logic and common sense to life in general.

 

[tomspug]

In answer to your question, Trublue, Gentiles refers to the entirety of non-Jews (aka those not under the Abraham covenant).

And I apologize for not making myself clear at the beginning, but this post was written in response to some comments I have read that do not understand the relationship between Jews and Christians.

And, of course, there is always something to debate.

Actually, I do have something to debate. Muslims fall under the category of 'Gentiles' because they are not descendants of Abraham (I think...). So, they would not be "next in line" but fall under the same new covenant that Jesus referred to at the Last Supper. I'm sure Muslims would not agree with this, but that is what the New Testament authors refer to when they mean 'Gentiles'.

I still have much to learn about Islam, so I do not intend to speak with any authority about it, but from my perspective as a Christian, I consider all men and women my "brothers and sisters" because we all share the same covenant that was sealed in the blood of Christ.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Actually, I do have something to debate. Muslims fall under the category of 'Gentiles' because they are not descendants of Abraham (I think...).

Good grief ...

• Ishmael, deemed by Islam and Judaism to be the ancestor of the Arab world, was the son of Abraham
• a Muslim is simply a follower of Islam.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Muslims fall under the category of 'Gentiles' because they are not descendants of Abraham (I think...).

Then, why is it considered an Abrahamic religion?

 

[tomspug]

Christianity is considered an Abrahamic religion too. And no, I don't think that Jay is correct. The Arab world's descendants were from Shem, Noah's son. Abraham was from this line, but not all Arabs were from Abraham's line.

The Abrahamic covenant referred to a specific nation, which (if you follow Genesis and Exodus) became the nation of Israel. If you believe that Muslim's are also apart of this covenant, then how?

 

[Ronald]

Ishmael was a son of Abraham and God blessed Ismael and said he would be the father of twelve Princes and make him a great nation. Ge.17:20

Remember 'close, only counts in Horseshoes.'

Shalom

 

[TrueBlue2]

Just something to think about. Judah was only one of twelve sons of Israel. The covenant of Abraham was made to the entire house of Israel, not just to the Jews. At one time the land of Canaan was divided into twelve sections, and each was inhabited by one of the twelve tribes. Then the land was overrun and conquered, and ten of those tribes were led away into the lands of the north, and scattered. My point is there are likely tens of thousands of people out there with the blood of Israel in their veins.

 

[kai]

Gentile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[arthra]

The twelve princes referred to as children of Ishmael spread around the area ...and some also belive the twelve princes are a prophetic reference to the twelve Imams as descendents of Prophet Muhammad.

Since it is believed that Ishamel and Abraham set up the Kaaba there's a connection with Islam and Prophet Muhamamd claimed descent from Hagar.

Abraham also had children by Keturah his third wife and their children migrated east so after thousands of years these descendents have intermarried and all of us probably have some degree of relationship or cousinship to one another.

Baha'u'llah claimed descent from Katurah.

"Regarding your question concerning the descent of Bahá'u'lláh from Abraham: The Master has stated that Bahá'u'lláh is a descendant of Abraham through a son of his, other than Isaac and Ishmael, from his wife Katurah..."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer March 24, 1943)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 473)


There's an article on Abrahmic religion at

Abrahamic religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

- Art

 

[tomspug]

So, if they intended to be under the Abrahamic covenant, did they circumcise themselves? I'm pretty sure that was a major factor in the covenant.

 

[kai]

So, if they intended to be under the Abrahamic covenant, did they circumcise themselves? I'm pretty sure that was a major factor in the covenant.

i do believe Muslims practice circumcision