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Jews are really Iraqees ?

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Aamer

Aamer

Truth Seeker
Abraham is going a long, long ways back. There is no historical record of Moses, Jesus or Muhammad either. It comes down to faith and using logic to accept or reject scriptures. As for Jews being Iraqi.. It doesn't matter. We all come from somewhere other than where we are now if you go back far enough in your lineage. And if two men who make it to heaven are having a conversion, are they going to say "I'm from Iraq" or "I'm from Mongolia." These labels are insignificant in the big picture.
 
danieldemol

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
outhouse said:
So what? :slap:


Does that have anything at all with the Ethnogenesis of Israel?
No it does not, not anything even remotely.


You do know that Abraham has no historicity at all! according to modern scholarships.

Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to archeologist William Dever, by the last quarter of the 20th century, "respectable archaeologists [had] given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'".[9]


The patriarchal stories most likely had a substantial oral prehistory: the Oxford History of the Biblical World notes that the purpose of oral tradition is not to record history but to pass on cultural values from one generation to the next: historical facts quickly become garbled, events and characters are invented to serve aims, and variant versions develop beside each other.[10] At some stage in Israel's history these oral traditions became part of the written tradition of the Pentateuch, the series of five books which tells of the origins of the world and the people of Israel: a majority of scholars believes this stage goes back to the Persian period, roughly 520–320 BCE.[11]
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None of the above necessitates Abraham being a non-historical figure, even if the stories attached to him are either not historical or mixed up.

There could well have been a historical person named Abraham (not Abraham per se, but whatever name that "Abraham" originated from) whose stories became mixed in with other stories true or mythological.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
danieldemol said:
None of the above necessitates Abraham being a non-historical figure, even if the stories attached to him are either not historical or mixed up.
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We are not dealing with 'necessities' but, rather, reasonable expectations. Sustaining a accurate historical narrative or remembrance over three and a half millennia of oral and textual transmission strikes me as a Herculean if not impossible task.
 
A

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
We are not dealing with 'necessities' but, rather, reasonable expectations. Sustaining a accurate historical narrative or remembrance over three and a half millennia of oral and textual transmission strikes me as a Herculean if not impossible task.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Abraham is no more historical than Jesus, I'm pretty sure.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
danieldemol said:
None of the above necessitates Abraham being a non-historical figure, even if the stories attached to him are either not historical or mixed up.

There could well have been a historical person named Abraham (not Abraham per se, but whatever name that "Abraham" originated from) whose stories became mixed in with other stories true or mythological.
Click to expand...


But the point is, as written, the man never existed. Not only that, his legends have gone through hundreds of years of compilation and redaction to create what was important for the authors time periods.

My guess is the pre history and his origins are due to those returning from the Babylonian exile. It would reflect little to nothing prior to this time period.
 
Flankerl

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
I dont get it what so many people have with ancient characters which cant be proven through historical records.

So there was a guy and his family. They moved out of Ur to the west.


Wow seriously thats like the biggest event in antiquity ever, iam really confused why there are no huge Monuments dedicated to him and his huge achievement.

Just imagine how historybooks would look like if every single most boring and unimportant event was written down in them.
There probably wouldnt be a single tree left in the world.



Meanwhile around Sumer a shepherd lost two sheep to the wolves. Also very important.
 
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