Jews & Guns

[Levite]

We are talking about history possibly repeating itself.

We never know what a government can turn into. Germany wan't nazi Germany until Hitler took over. It was a democratic country. Hitler got elected.

And yes we are discussing WW2 and how it relates to jews being able to defend themselves.

I think it is absurdly paranoid to suppose the US-- for all its innumerable governmental and social flaws-- is liable to turn into Nazi Germany.

The only more absurd idea is the notion that if that did happen, somehow your gun would make a difference.

 

[Flankerl]

The dogs were used to find jews.

The soldiers are the ones who mass murdered jews.

So what kind of magic completely leveled the Ghetto?

No iam not going to drop it.

It's called history.

No its not. Actually the gun laws were loosened.

We are talking about history possibly repeating itself.

Oh wow you are one of those arent you?

Hitler got elected.

No he wasnt.

"German federal election, November 1932

NSDAP: 33.09% (-4.18%)
SPD: 20.43% (-1.15%)
KPD: 16.86% (+2.54%)
Centre: ................. and so forth." (well would you look at that, the left parties had more votes than the NSDAP....)

Learn your history.

Are we still actually discussing Nazis rounding up Jews for the slaughter as if it has a bearing on a debate about American gun culture and American crime?
How many of our American members expect the American government and country to build a Fourth Reich and knock on the doors of every Jewish family in order to round them up?

If you want to discuss reasons to own guns in the US in the year 2013, then talk about the US, or your region in the US in the year 2013. Don't lecture us about the 1930's and the 1940's, especially since probably most of us heard the events of these years from our family members in their own words, and from their own personal experience.

No! Them liberuls! Them is tryin to take our guns Cletus!

 

[CMike]

I think it is absurdly paranoid to suppose the US-- for all its innumerable governmental and social flaws-- is liable to turn into Nazi Germany.

The only more absurd idea is the notion that if that did happen, somehow your gun would make a difference.

That's what the jews of Germany thought too.

Jews have been also persecuted almost every other place in the world, i.e. pogroms that have taken a place even some time after nazi Germany.

That is one reason to have guns and be able to defend yourself.

Another reason is basic self and home defense.

Against a home invasion if people want to harm you your choices are usually either submit or wait until the police come after the incident to write the report.

 

[Dena]

Last night I listened to someone get shot across the street from me (I'm completely serious). It was quite unpleasant. I did find a report that says he should be okay but the suspects ran away. We do have guns in our home but I don't know how to use them.While I'm not particularly considered about the US turning into Nazi Germany I do understand wanting to own guns for safety. I should probably really learn to use one...as well as move the hell out of this neighborhood.

 

[CMike]

Last night I listened to someone get shot across the street from me (I'm completely serious). It was quite unpleasant. I did find a report that says he should be okay but the suspects ran away. We do have guns in our home but I don't know how to use them.While I'm not particularly considered about the US turning into Nazi Germany I do understand wanting to own guns for safety. I should probably really learn to use one...as well as move the hell out of this neighborhood.

You should definetly learn how to use them.

 

[CMike]

So what kind of magic completely leveled the Ghetto?

Please read slowly.

In Belorussia the Bielski jewish partisan group saved 1,200 jews from death.

Over 90% of the jews were mass murdered in Belorussia.

In the Warsaw ghetto uprising, the nazis did finally crush the rebellion. However, instead of taking 3 days as they expected it took over a month, and a lot of jews escaped. The uprising also sparked over uprisings.

The warsaw ghetto fighters had very few arms. Imagine what they could have done if they were well armed.

No iam not going to drop it.

Did I or anyone else ask you to drop it?

I think it's nuts that you are advocating that the jews in Germany and other places where the nazis were rounding up jews to be exterminated were better off not having arms than having arms.

No its not. Actually the gun laws were loosened.

You are very confused.

» Yes, Hitler Really Did Take the Guns Before Throwing Jews into Concentration Camps (or Gas Chambers) Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

If you read the 1938 Nazi gun laws closely and compare them to earlier 1928 Weimar gun legislation – as a straightforward exercise of statutory interpretation – several conclusions become clear. First, with regard to possession and carrying of firearms, the Nazi regime relaxed the gun laws that were in place in Germany at the time the Nazis seized power.

Second, the Nazi gun laws of 1938 specifically banned Jewish persons from obtaining a license to manufacture firearms or ammunition. Third, approximately eight months after enacting the 1938 Nazi gun laws, Hitler imposed regulations prohibiting Jewish persons from possessing any dangerous weapons, including firearms.

The point was, Hitler had it in for the Jews, so he first disarmed them before carrying out his murderous campaign against them. And, unable to resist, millions died.

“In Germany, firearm registration helped lead to the holocaust,” National Rifle Association executive vice president Wayne LaPierre wrote in his book, “Gun, Crimes and Freedom.”

Nothing new under the sun

Here are some key aspects of the 1938 law:
– Police permission was required to own a handgun;
– All firearms had to be registered;
– Any Germans who enjoyed shooting bolt-action rifles were told to join the army “if they wished to shoot ‘military’ rifles,” writes LaPierre, in his book;
– The Nazi regime “also enacted the “Regulations against Jews’ possession of weapons” within the days of Kristallnacht – the ‘night of broken glass’ – when stormtroopers attacked synagogues and Jews throughout Germany,” he wrote;




Oh wow you are one of those arent you?




No he wasnt.

"German federal election, November 1932

NSDAP: 33.09% (-4.18%)
SPD: 20.43% (-1.15%)
KPD: 16.86% (+2.54%)
Centre: ................. and so forth." (well would you look at that, the left parties had more votes than the NSDAP....)

Learn your history.

[/quote]

Take your own advice.

Adolf Hitler is named chancellor of Germany — History.com This Day in History — 1/30/1933

Adolf Hitler is named chancellor of Germany



On this day in 1933, President Paul von Hindenburg names Adolf Hitler, leader or fÜhrer of the National Socialist German Workers Party (or Nazi Party), as chancellor of Germany.
The year 1932 had seen Hitler's meteoric rise to prominence in Germany, spurred largely by the German people's frustration with dismal economic conditions and the still-festering wounds inflicted by defeat in the Great War and the harsh peace terms of the Versailles treaty.

A charismatic speaker, Hitler channeled popular discontent with the post-war Weimar government into support for his fledgling Nazi party. In an election held in July 1932, the Nazis won 230 governmental seats; together with the Communists, the next largest party, they made up over half of the Reichstag

 

[Tarheeler]

Would have stopped it completely? Probably not.

Would it saved many more jews from mass murder? Absolutely.

The Polish uprising made it much more difficult for the nazis to round up and mass murder jews. They had few arms to fight and yet they did.

Imagine if they were all armed.

Instead of them taking three days to kill or the jews it took over a month and a chunk of jews were able to escape as a result.

In BeloRussia over 1,200 jews were saves because they were part of the Bielski jewish partisian organizations.

No, we can't say anything "absolutely". We can't rewrite history, and we have no way of knowing with any certainty how a change would have affected the outcome. All we can do is postulate, and that quite often leads to making faulty assumptions.

 

[CMike]

*edit*

Excellent posts.

 

[Curious George]

Surley you can address the issue of gun ownership with relevant examples from contemporary America instead of invoking images of Europe 70 years ago? It would give more credibility to your agenda and members could address it with more solid understanding.

If I gave you a year to document all the hate crimes, throughout the world, where Jews are the victims and you could know with omniscience of every one reported and not reported, do you think you would have more than a handful? You could even pick the year.

 

[Quagmire]

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[xkatz]

I do believe that many Jewish people have good reason to want to arm themselves. With attacks on Jews in recent history (ie Buenos Aires, Turkey, and even bomb threats against synagogues in America), it only makes sense that Jewish people should practice self-defense. I think it is reasonable to have Jews with guns (or even just non-lethal civilian arms in general). Jews in Anglo-America and Western Europe maybe relatively well off, but even in these parts of the world there is always crime and minor anti-semitism. I can understand the hesitation of many, but I think that unfortunately Jew-hatred is on the rise and to say that Jewish people shouldn't want to arm themselves when people want to see you blown to bits or beheaded is unreasonable.

However, that said, it is unreasonable to say that guns will solve the problem of negative attitudes towards Jewish people. It is also unreasonable to say that as Levite stated that the USA or even EU Europe is "liable" to become a 4th Reich.

 

[Caladan]

If I gave you a year to document all the hate crimes, throughout the world, where Jews are the victims and you could know with omniscience of every one reported and not reported, do you think you would have more than a handful? You could even pick the year.

The Internet is your friend. During my last stay in France 3 Jewish school children and a rabbi were shot in Toulouse. Several months afterwards 5 Israeli tourists were killed in Bulgaria. These are the ones I know of without researching for more information. There are also numerouse attacks that were foiled by local authorities that I know of. Notice that I discussed fatalities and murders. Hate crimes against Jews are a routine. We hear it often from our relatives in France for example. In this regard, the Internet is again your friend. For example in Malmo in Sweden alone 60 reports of attacks against Jews were recorded so far this year. According to Jews the overwhelming majority of incidents are not reported.

 

[Flankerl]

Please read slowly.

In Belorussia the Bielski jewish partisan group saved 1,200 jews from death.

Over 90% of the jews were mass murdered in Belorussia.

In the Warsaw ghetto uprising, the nazis did finally crush the rebellion. However, instead of taking 3 days as they expected it took over a month, and a lot of jews escaped. The uprising also sparked over uprisings.

The warsaw ghetto fighters had very few arms. Imagine what they could have done if they were well armed.

How do you shoot down artillery grenades and bombs dropped from planes?

You cling to some fantasy that well armed people could have survived it all. Poland was well armed. France was well armed. Did it help? No it didnt.

They stood a few kilometers away from moscow, they could see the churches and Kreml. All this even though the USSR was really well armed in 1941.

Did I or anyone else ask you to drop it?

I think it's nuts that you are advocating that the jews in Germany and other places where the nazis were rounding up jews to be exterminated were better off not having arms than having arms.

So how do you destroy the armored cars in front of your home? You going to shoot at it?
Fun fact: You are dead and seem like an armchair general. You werent there. You dont have their fears. Their fears for their family.
And hey all the nazis are going to do is relocate you. Doesnt sound that bad. Because you dont know whats going to happen.
You dont even know that there is a town called Auschwitz in occupied poland.

There never has been a massmurder on such a grand and organised scale, so why fear something that has never existed.

But hey if you are going to be Captain Hindsight that obviously would have killed the police and SS officers you are living in a dream.

You are very confused.

» Yes, Hitler Really Did Take the Guns Before Throwing Jews into Concentration Camps (or Gas Chambers) Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

If you read the 1938 Nazi gun laws closely and compare them to earlier 1928 Weimar gun legislation – as a straightforward exercise of statutory interpretation – several conclusions become clear. First, with regard to possession and carrying of firearms, the Nazi regime relaxed the gun laws that were in place in Germany at the time the Nazis seized power.

Second, the Nazi gun laws of 1938 specifically banned Jewish persons from obtaining a license to manufacture firearms or ammunition. Third, approximately eight months after enacting the 1938 Nazi gun laws, Hitler imposed regulations prohibiting Jewish persons from possessing any dangerous weapons, including firearms.

The point was, Hitler had it in for the Jews, so he first disarmed them before carrying out his murderous campaign against them. And, unable to resist, millions died.

“In Germany, firearm registration helped lead to the holocaust,” National Rifle Association executive vice president Wayne LaPierre wrote in his book, “Gun, Crimes and Freedom.”

Nothing new under the sun

Here are some key aspects of the 1938 law:
– Police permission was required to own a handgun;
– All firearms had to be registered;
– Any Germans who enjoyed shooting bolt-action rifles were told to join the army “if they wished to shoot ‘military’ rifles,” writes LaPierre, in his book;
– The Nazi regime “also enacted the “Regulations against Jews’ possession of weapons” within the days of Kristallnacht – the ‘night of broken glass’ – when stormtroopers attacked synagogues and Jews throughout Germany,” he wrote;

Aha yeah no.
"The 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the current weapons law, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law, citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. Furthermore, the law restricted ownership of firearms to "...persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit." But under the new law:

• Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or ammunition. The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as was the possession of ammunition."[4]
• The legal age at which guns could be purchased was lowered from 20 to 18.[5]
• Permits were valid for three years, rather than one year.[5]
• The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit requirement expanded. Holders of annual hunting permits, government workers, and NSDAP members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions. Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn Railways were exempted.[4]
• Jews were forbidden from the manufacturing or dealing of firearms and ammunition.[4]

Under both the 1928 and 1938 acts, gun manufacturers and dealers were required to maintain records with information about who purchased guns and the guns' serial numbers. These records were to be delivered to a police authority for inspection at the end of each year."

So under the original law jews were still allowed to own guns, even rifles. Only after the Reichskristallnacht this changed. But by that time most jews who were wealthy enough to even own a gun or rifle had fled the country.
The poor families often had only enough money to send one family member with as much of the family memories as possible out of the country.

You make it sound so easy, owning a gun during that time. lol
After the civil war times most people who had guns and rifles had to give them up. This was before the Nazis rose to power mind you.

Take your own advice.

Adolf Hitler is named chancellor of Germany — History.com This Day in History — 1/30/1933

Adolf Hitler is named chancellor of Germany



On this day in 1933, President Paul von Hindenburg names Adolf Hitler, leader or fÜhrer of the National Socialist German Workers Party (or Nazi Party), as chancellor of Germany.
The year 1932 had seen Hitler's meteoric rise to prominence in Germany, spurred largely by the German people's frustration with dismal economic conditions and the still-festering wounds inflicted by defeat in the Great War and the harsh peace terms of the Versailles treaty.

A charismatic speaker, Hitler channeled popular discontent with the post-war Weimar government into support for his fledgling Nazi party.

You wrote Hitler was elected into office. No he wasnt. He was named Chancellor by President Hindenburg.
In the November 1932 election they didnt get a majority.
And not even after most enemies of the NSDAP "vanished", fled the country or went underground did they not get a majority. Its important to know that SA members were present in the march 1933 election and made sure that you voted right.
You should really educate yourself about the politics of foreign countries.

In an election held in July 1932, the Nazis won 230 governmental seats; together with the Communists, the next largest party, they made up over half of the Reichstag

So what? The KPD and NSDAP were enemies. Its members killed eachother on the streets.

It doesnt matter if the NSDAP and KPD had a majority together. This is written like they were BFFs.




Oh and by the way, the History channel? Really? Is this supposed to be a joke?

 

[CMike]

Originally Posted by CMike
Please read slowly.

In Belorussia the Bielski jewish partisan group saved 1,200 jews from death.

Over 90% of the jews were mass murdered in Belorussia.

In the Warsaw ghetto uprising, the nazis did finally crush the rebellion. However, instead of taking 3 days as they expected it took over a month, and a lot of jews escaped. The uprising also sparked over uprisings.

The warsaw ghetto fighters had very few arms. Imagine what they could have done if they were well armed.

How do you shoot down artillery grenades and bombs dropped from planes?

Oy vey. Nazis didn't use bombs dropped out of planes and artillerly grenades to round up jews for slaughter. They sent in the SS to bust into their apartments and take them.

You cling to some fantasy that well armed people could have survived it all. Poland was well armed. France was well armed. Did it help? No it didnt.

They stood a few kilometers away from moscow, they could see the churches and Kreml. All this even though the USSR was really well armed in 1941.

Not surprisingly, you are still missing the point.

People with arms at least have the choice and ability to resist.

It was done successfully. In BeloRussia the Bielski partisan group saved 1,200 jews. The hardest part for them was getting enough arms.

In Warsaw the jews gave the nazis a run for their money. Because of the resistence many jews escaped, instead of it taking three days to liquidate the ghetto it took over a month. They had very few arms there.

How much more could have they accomplished if they had sufficient arms rather than a few pistols and little explosives.

So how do you destroy the armored cars in front of your home? You going to shoot at it?

You wait until the nazis get out of the armored cars.

These really aren't very tough questions.

Fun fact: You are dead and seem like an armchair general. You werent there. You dont have their fears. Their fears for their family.
And hey all the nazis are going to do is relocate you. Doesnt sound that bad. Because you dont know whats going to happen.
You dont even know that there is a town called Auschwitz in occupied poland.

It's think it's extremely condescending to state that the jews were better off without access to gun than with access to guns.

And at that point they knew what was happening to the jews.

In Belorussia they knew that the nazis were killing all the jews in the ghettos.

But hey if you are going to be Captain Hindsight that obviously would have killed the police and SS officers you are living in a dream.

Armed jewish resistors did kill SS officers Queen Pacificist.

So under the original law jews were still allowed to own guns, even rifles. Only after the Reichskristallnacht this changed. .

The law under Hitler specifically outlawed jews from having guns.

But by that time most jews who were wealthy enough to even own a gun or rifle had fled the country.
The poor families often had only enough money to send one family member with as much of the family memories as possible out of the country.

Unfortunately, many of the jews in Germany thought it could never happen in their country.

They were naive as many in this thread are.

You make it sound so easy, owning a gun during that time. lol
After the civil war times most people who had guns and rifles had to give them up. This was before the Nazis rose to power mind you.

The laws of 1938 inacted by the nazi regime specifically targeted jews from owning guns.

You wrote Hitler was elected into office. No he wasnt. He was named Chancellor by President Hindenburg.
In the November 1932 election they didnt get a majority.
And not even after most enemies of the NSDAP "vanished", fled the country or went underground did they not get a majority. Its important to know that SA members were present in the march 1933 election and made sure that you voted right.
You should really educate yourself about the politics of foreign countries.

That was a formality. In Israel the president appoints the prime minister. However, the prime minister is picked by the party, which has power based on the elections.

Okay, you want to be picky, Hitler's party won the election, and controlled the government. They chose Hitler to head it. He then became Chancellor. The President then appointed him.

Oh and by the way, the History channel? Really? Is this supposed to be a joke?

No, it's called history.

 

[Flankerl]

Oy vey. Nazis didn't use bombs dropped out of planes and artillerly grenades to round up jews for slaughter. They sent in the SS to bust into their apartments and take them.

Last time i checked they flattened the whole ghetto in warsaw to the ground. But hey the more you know.

Not surprisingly, you are still missing the point.

People with arms at least have the choice and ability to resist.

It was done successfully. In BeloRussia the Bielski partisan group saved 1,200 jews. The hardest part for them was getting enough arms.

In Warsaw the jews gave the nazis a run for their money. Because of the resistence many jews escaped, instead of it taking three days to liquidate the ghetto it took over a month. They had very few arms there.

How much more could have they accomplished if they had sufficient arms rather than a few pistols and little explosives.

A run for their money? Are out of your mind? The ghetto was razed to the ground.
After they were done there simply was nothing left. Not even the wall of the Ghetto was still standing.
Just a nice flat area.

So lets say they manage to fortify the ghetto. Now what?
You hear that? That screaming sound from the sky? Oh boy.

Two bombs just destroyed a house. And another. And another. And another.

Now you have your... machine gun. You cant do anything. You also cant get out of the ghetto because there the germans have build up road blocks with tanks etc.

Well yeah a few Shermans might be nice to help you. Perhaps some anti air cannons, but well you dont have those. And even theorising that you might have had them is beyond crazy.

You wait until the nazis get out of the armored cars.

These really aren't very tough questions.

Well they arent. They raise the barrel of their armored car and open fire.

Your family just died. Game over. Welcome to WW2.

Please enter coin for a new game.

It's think it's extremely condescending to state that the jews were better off without access to gun than with access to guns.

And at that point they knew what was happening to the jews.

In Belorussia they knew that the nazis were killing all the jews in the ghettos.

Yeah in Belorussia. But you are in warsaw. The people outside the walls are poles.
Fun fact: They hate you. If you die in some camp then all the better for them.
You simply dont know that you are about to be sent to your death.

But hey if you are a timetraveller you obviously know that and would do something.
Turns out that most jews werent timetravellers.

Armed jewish resistors did kill SS officers Queen Pacificist.

Iam talking about you.

The law under Hitler specifically outlawed jews from having guns.

Only after the Reichskristallnacht. The original law under Hitler(mid 1938) did not ban it for jews. Only after November 1938.

Unfortunately, many of the jews in Germany thought it could never happen in their country.

They were naive as many in this thread are.

And let me guess: You would have known!

The laws of 1938 inacted by the nazi regime specifically targeted jews from owning guns.

See above.

That was a formality. In Israel the president appoints the prime minister. However, the prime minister is picked by the party, which has power based on the elections.

Okay, you want to be picky, Hitler's party won the election, and controlled the government. They chose Hitler to head it. He then became Chancellor. The President then appointed him.

No not at all.
They got most votes in Nov 1932. Yet Hitler was only appointed Chancellor in Jan 1933. In those two months Schleicher was Chancellor, directly appointed after the Nov 1932 elections btw.
Because as it turns out you dont win the election and get to run the government just by having most votes. Germany never ever had first past the post.


So what do we learn from this.
In Novermber 1932 the NSDAP was again the strongest party in the Reichstag.
Again it didnt control the government.
Again it was in the opposition.
It by the way even lost votes and had less votes than the two left parties combined.

Isnt it fun to learn something about foreign countries?

 

[metis]

There's a relatively small section of the wall left in Warsaw.

 

[CMike]

Last time i checked they flattened the whole ghetto in warsaw to the ground. But hey the more you know.

Oy vey.

And it took a month for them to do so instead of the three days that they expected it to happen.

Also jews escaped. They killed some nazis.

The uprising led to other uprisings as well.

The jews in the ghetto had very few arms. .What if they were well armed with rifles? It may have taken them five months. Perhaps they would have given up. More jews would have escaped.

A run for their money? Are out of your mind? The ghetto was razed to the ground.
After they were done there simply was nothing left. Not even the wall of the Ghetto was still standing.
Just a nice flat area.

So lets say they manage to fortify the ghetto. Now what?
You hear that? That screaming sound from the sky? Oh boy.

Two bombs just destroyed a house. And another. And another. And another.

Now you have your... machine gun. You cant do anything. You also cant get out of the ghetto because there the germans have build up road blocks with tanks etc.

Well yeah a few Shermans might be nice to help you. Perhaps some anti air cannons, but well you dont have those. And even theorising that you might have had them is beyond crazy.

I think it's rather idiotic to argue that the jews were better off with no arms an no means to resist in any form.

At least those that died, died with dignitity and took some SS officers with them.

This is from the jewish commander.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/holocaust/peopleevents/pandeAMEX103.html

Their commander Anielewicz articulated what this was in a letter to a friend shortly before his death. "My life's dream has been realized," he said. "I have lived to see Jewish defense in the ghetto rally its greatness and glory." By the end of the year, with very little left of Jewish life in Poland, the task for the Jewish resistance had become, in the words of one member of the underground, to "keep alive the remnants who have survived...so there will be some reserve for the future and witnesses to this crime."

:applause:

Well they arent. They raise the barrel of their armored car and open fire.

Your family just died. Game over. Welcome to WW2.

Please enter coin for a new game.

2,000 German soldiers assaulted the Warsaw ghetto as well.

To get the jews out they had to deploy German soldiers, and they did.

Queen Pacifist they were dead anyway. At least some jews escaped and some died with dignity. They didn't die by being rounded up like sheep and going to a concentration camp to be gassed.

Yeah in Belorussia. But you are in warsaw. The people outside the walls are poles.
Fun fact: They hate you. If you die in some camp then all the better for them.
You simply dont know that you are about to be sent to your death.

But hey if you are a timetraveller you obviously know that and would do something.
Turns out that most jews werent timetravellers.

Many jews escaped to the forest in Poland. Unforunately, not enough. And a very big problem. They didn't arms.

Only after the Reichskristallnacht. The original law under Hitler(mid 1938) did not ban it for jews. Only after November 1938.



No not at all.
They got most votes in Nov 1932. Yet Hitler was only appointed Chancellor in Jan 1933. In those two months Schleicher was Chancellor, directly appointed after the Nov 1932 elections btw.
Because as it turns out you dont win the election and get to run the government just by having most votes. Germany never ever had first past the post.


So what do we learn from this.
In Novermber 1932 the NSDAP was again the strongest party in the Reichstag.
Again it didnt control the government.
Again it was in the opposition.
It by the way even lost votes and had less votes than the two left parties combined.

Isnt it fun to learn something about foreign countries?

Adolf Hitler is named chancellor of Germany — History.com This Day in History — 1/30/1933


On this day in 1933, President Paul von Hindenburg names Adolf Hitler, leader or fÜhrer of the National Socialist German Workers Party (or Nazi Party), as chancellor of Germany.
The year 1932 had seen Hitler's meteoric rise to prominence in Germany, spurred largely by the German people's frustration with dismal economic conditions and the still-festering wounds inflicted by defeat in the Great War and the harsh peace terms of the Versailles treaty.

A charismatic speaker, Hitler channeled popular discontent with the post-war Weimar government into support for his fledgling Nazi party. In an election held in July 1932, the Nazis won 230 governmental seats; together with the Communists, the next largest party, they made up over half of the Reichstag.

Hindenburg, intimidated by Hitler's growing popularity and the thuggish nature of his cadre of supporters, the SA (or Brownshirts), initially refused to make him chancellor. Instead, he appointed General Kurt von Schleicher, who attempted to steal Hitler's thunder by negotiating with a dissident Nazi faction led by Gregor Strasser.

At the next round of elections in November, the Nazis lost ground—but the Communists gained it, a paradoxical effect of Schleicher's efforts that made right-wing forces in Germany even more determined to get Hitler into power. In a series of complicated negotiations, ex-Chancellor Franz von Papen, backed by prominent German businessmen and the conservative German National People's Party (DNVP), convinced Hindenburg to appoint Hitler as chancellor, with the understanding that von Papen as vice-chancellor and other non-Nazis in key government positions would contain and temper Hitler's more brutal tendencies.

Hitler's emergence as chancellor on January 30, 1933, marked a crucial turning point for Germany and, ultimately, for the world. His plan, embraced by much of the German population, was to do away with politics and make Germany a powerful, unified one-party state. He began immediately, ordering a rapid expansion of the state police, the Gestapo, and putting Hermann Goering in charge of a new security force, composed entirely of Nazis and dedicated to stamping out whatever opposition to his party might arise. From that moment on, Nazi Germany was off and running, and there was little Hindenburg or von Papen—or anyone—could do to stop it.

The Germans elected Hitler.

I am currently reading Mila 18 by Leon Uris. It's about the Warsaw ghetto uprising. Great book.

 

[dantech]

Is the question really about whether or not Jews should have concealed weapons to protect themselves in the case of a racist uprising, especially in this very racist era?

I think the best answer is: If the whole family agrees for one to keep a weapon in their household.

 

[metis]

One of my cousin's is a retired Detroit police officer who lived in Detroit, and when he got home from work, he unloaded his gun, put the bullets going into his safe and the gun into a lock-box chained to a heavy cabinet. Why did he do this? Because he saw all too often what can happen when one keeps a loaded gun in the house.

 

[CMike]

One of my cousin's is a retired Detroit police officer who lived in Detroit, and when he got home from work, he unloaded his gun, put the bullets going into his safe and the gun into a lock-box chained to a heavy cabinet. Why did he do this? Because he saw all too often what can happen when one keeps a loaded gun in the house.

He certainly made sure he can't use it if he needs it.