Jews need to get the hell out of Europe

[metis]

This may come as a shock but the Israeli prime minister doesn't work for Obama.

Obama is going to be hostile toward Israel regardless of what Netanyahu does.

No, he's hostile to Bibi, and Bibi is hostile to Obama. A similar relationship was also found between George H.W. Bush and Bibi to the point whereas James Baker wouldn't even forward any calls from Bibi to Bush. Also, I have heard Shimon Peres in three separate interviews say that Israel has received more military help from this administration than any other.

 

[CMike]

No, he's hostile to Bibi, and Bibi is hostile to Obama. A similar relationship was also found between George H.W. Bush and Bibi to the point whereas James Baker wouldn't even forward any calls from Bibi to Bush. Also, I have heard Shimon Peres in three separate interviews say that Israel has received more military help from this administration than any other.

Bibi is speaking for Israel.

It's not Bibi that is speaking out against Iran getting nukes, it's Israel speaking out against Israel getting nukes.

Israel is getting in the way of Obama's fantasy of a Kumbaya in the middle wast. That's the issue.

I think Obama's actions and words against Israel speak for themselves.

We are all witnessing Obama's sordid attitude against Israel.

 

[Rhiamom]

Bibi is speaking for Israel.

It's not Bibi that is speaking out against Iran getting nukes, it's Israel speaking out against Israel getting nukes.

Israel is getting in the way of Obama's fantasy of a Kumbaya in the middle wast. That's the issue.

I think Obama's actions and words against Israel speak for themselves.

We are all witnessing Obama's sordid attitude against Israel.

What we are witnessing is the entire world's reaction to over 40 years of Israel protesting their desire for peace while occupying ever more land reserved for the Palestinian state. At least the Palestinians have been honest and consistent in their message of wanting to eliminate Israel. I do not see a 2 state solution happening, because neither Israel or Palestine desires that. They both want the entire land, and want it to have no people living there other than their own. As these are wholly incompatible goals no compromise will work. We will have a one-state solution, like it or not. The Israelis have done everything possible to make a jointly Israeli and Palestinian one-state solution unacceptable to both the Palestinians and the Israelis. So have the Palestinians. The only issue not yet decided is whether the coming nation will be a religious theocracy or a democracy. Israel and Palestine are both working for their own theocracy, while the only solution that might possibly work is a secular democracy.

 

[metis]

Bibi is speaking for Israel.

It's not Bibi that is speaking out against Iran getting nukes, it's Israel speaking out against Israel getting nukes.

Israel is getting in the way of Obama's fantasy of a Kumbaya in the middle wast. That's the issue.

I think Obama's actions and words against Israel speak for themselves.

We are all witnessing Obama's sordid attitude against Israel.

First of all, Bibi is speaking for himself as we're seeing with an election coming up in about a week. Yes, he also speaks for Israel because of his position, much like Obama speaks for us here in the States because of his position.

Secondly, it's pretty much common knowledge that Israel already has nukes.

Thirdly, all recent presidents have walked a fine line dealing with countries in the Middle East, including "W". I would rather try for "Kumbaya" than play "cowboy" and see another conflict if it could be avoided. If we don't at least try for peace, then we can't complain when our soldiers and civilians are put in body bags. Iran fully knows that it this process don't work then an attack well could be in the making.

Finally, you are confusing "Obama's actions and words against Israel" with Obama's reluctance to create another war in that region that could have devastating consequences for Israel, the U.S., and much of the region.

Are you that anxious to go to war that you don't want to even see if the peace process bears any fruit?

 

[Akivah]

What we are witnessing is the entire world's reaction to over 40 years of Israel protesting their desire for peace while occupying ever more land reserved for the Palestinian state. At least the Palestinians have been honest and consistent in their message of wanting to eliminate Israel. I do not see a 2 state solution happening, because neither Israel or Palestine desires that. They both want the entire land, and want it to have no people living there other than their own. As these are wholly incompatible goals no compromise will work. We will have a one-state solution, like it or not. The Israelis have done everything possible to make a jointly Israeli and Palestinian one-state solution unacceptable to both the Palestinians and the Israelis. So have the Palestinians. The only issue not yet decided is whether the coming nation will be a religious theocracy or a democracy. Israel and Palestine are both working for their own theocracy, while the only solution that might possibly work is a secular democracy.

Israel has done more for peace than any other nation on Earth, yet they are still blamed more than any other nation on Earth. Jordan was meant to be the palestinian homeland. As someone previously noted, the refugees are kept in refugee status for generations by the Arabs. Why do the Israelis get the blame and responsibility for that? The Israelis have given up Sinai, have given up Gaza, so how do you figure that Israel is occupying more land now than in the past? Please show me a single time that an arabic leader has ever desired to be neighbors with Israel (i.e. so-called two state solution). Israel has only ever desired their historic land. It is the arabs (who when they had the Israeli land neglected it) who scream for every inch. This is such a one-sided issue, that your equalizing of the issue nauseates me.

 

[Flankerl]

Bibi is speaking for Israel.

I'll remind you about that next time the evil Democrats do something you disagree with.

 

[CMike]

I'll remind you about that next time the evil Democrats do something you disagree with.

Unfortunately the evil Obama is speaking for America.

It's a shame that we have such a disaster doing it, but he does represent this country.

 

[Flankerl]

Unfortunately the evil Obama is speaking for America.

It's a shame that we have such a disaster doing it, but he does represent this country.

Don't worry your Republicans will save it.



pfff *must not laugh*

 

[Rhiamom]

Israel has done more for peace than any other nation on Earth, yet they are still blamed more than any other nation on Earth. Jordan was meant to be the palestinian homeland. As someone previously noted, the refugees are kept in refugee status for generations by the Arabs. Why do the Israelis get the blame and responsibility for that? The Israelis have given up Sinai, have given up Gaza, so how do you figure that Israel is occupying more land now than in the past? Please show me a single time that an arabic leader has ever desired to be neighbors with Israel (i.e. so-called two state solution). Israel has only ever desired their historic land. It is the arabs (who when they had the Israeli land neglected it) who scream for every inch. This is such a one-sided issue, that your equalizing of the issue nauseates me.

Israel does not want peace. They want slow genocide of the Palestinians.

I am the one who pointed out that the refugees have been kept in that status for 3 generations now, by the governments of Arabic nations. The Palestinian land being occupied is East Jerusalem, and is Zionist settlements in the West Bank. Gaza and Sinai being returned is only what international law requires. You say I am one-sided, but you are giving Israel a free pass for violating international law repeatedly. I won't go into war crimes, because actual facts about that are not yet determined. I leave that to the international courts.

Israel is being blamed because, frankly, they have earned it. A few decades ago they behaved ethically, like giving back Gaza and Sinai, albeit many years later than they ought to have. When they behaved ethically the world supported them. Now the Netanyahu government seizes every excuse to attack Gaza and to take control of more land. The world does not support this. Neither side wants a two-state solution, and neither side will accept anything but their own one-state solution. Israel has become as extremist as the Arabs, and that is also what the world objects to.

 

[CMike]

Yeah...Israel defending Itself after the Gaza government shoots thousands of rockets into Israel's populated cities is really nit picking.

I used to believe in a two state solution, now it's clear it will never work. The arab side just wants to destroy Israel... period.

There is no one rationale on the arab side.

Israel completely withdrawing from Gaza and it's aftermath has shown what giving away it's land for vague promises of peace leada to.

 

[Rhiamom]

Yeah...Israel defending Itself after the Gaza government shoots thousands of rockets into Israel's populated cities is really nit picking.

I used to believe in a two state solution, now it's clear it will never work. The arab side just wants to destroy Israel... period.

There is no one rationale on the arab side.

Israel completely withdrawing from Gaza and it's aftermath has shown what giving away it's land for vague promises of peace leada to.

I would like a clarification, CMike. You support a one-state solution, and I assume that, like me, you don't want it to be a purely Palestinian state. So which do you prefer of these options?

1. Genocide of the Palestinians, reducing the Arab population to one substantially less than the Jewish population in the entire territory Israel wants, and a continued Jewish theocracy?

2. A secular Democracy wIth a Muslim majority population?

3. An Arabic majority suppressed as an underclass in a Jewish theocratic apartheid system?

Please specify exactly what you would prefer if none of these potential outcomes appeals to you.

 

[CMike]

I would like a clarification, CMike. You support a one-state solution, and I assume that, like me, you don't want it to be a purely Palestinian state. So which do you prefer of these options?

1. Genocide of the Palestinians, reducing the Arab population to one substantially less than the Jewish population in the entire territory Israel wants, and a continued Jewish theocracy?

2. A secular Democracy wIth a Muslim majority population?

3. An Arabic majority suppressed as an underclass in a Jewish theocratic apartheid system?

Please specify exactly what you would prefer if none of these potential outcomes appeals to you.

The Jordanians and Egyptians living in Judea and Samaria should be given a choice to become legal residents and even citizens by following a path to get there.

To become a citizen they need to serve in the IDF as all other Israel citizens must do (with some exceptions).

If they don't wish to become legal residents or citizens they need to return to their home countries.

 

[Rhiamom]

The Jordanians and Egyptians living in Judea and Samaria should be given a choice to become legal residents and even citizens by following a path to get there.

To become a citizen they need to serve in the IDF as all other Israel citizens must do (with some exceptions).

If they don't wish to become legal residents or citizens they need to return to their home countries.

So you are going with option 2 or 3 then, depending on the conditions attached to gaining citizenship. Which one, CMike?