JK Rowling: Profoundly Misunderstood

[Estro Felino]

Yep. Let the story be the story for what it is instead of all kinds of crazy interpretations placed into it just because an author had expressed their personal opinions on something.

It looks like that if one is a best-selling author has an opinion that is disliked by a certain political group, then she is not entitled to her personal opinion.

Why do people care? I couldn't care less about authors' and writers' opinion. They are not politicians so they aren't gonna do anything about it.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Let the story be the story for what it is instead of all kinds of crazy interpretations placed into it just because an author had expressed their personal opinions on something.

Bet.

The story and the books are a horribly written mess that everyone else - starting with the Warner Brothers movies - is making much better.

They are not politicians so they aren't gonna do anything about it.

Only she is supporting and funding politicians who are doing something with that view.

 

[Estro Felino]

Only she is supporting and funding politicians who are doing something with that view.

Is it allowed in the US?
I mean funding politicians so they follow your agenda?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Is it allowed in the US?
I mean funding politicians so they follow your agenda?

Absolutely not the point or the issue. You're from Italy, yes? This is like asking "Was what Benito Mussolini did allowed?" The issue is that it is actively harming people.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well, that's not quite what I meant by it, and the two issues do not compare. With respect, I'm not even going to try to do so.

Regarding gender dysphoria/euphoria and being trans, with respect to each person's lived experience, it is not only a matter of pain. Being trans is not reliant on dysphoria, though that may be a present factor. It's not a constant, it's not uniform or monolith, and may very well be greater for some than others. What I'm saying is that you don't have to say "I do this because I was in pain," one can absolutely have the mindset of "I do this because it makes me happy and whole." Will not existing a given way make you unhappy, incurring dysphoria? Perhaps. But that's not the only thing that it's about.

While that's true, it's also true we do have a shared, collective misery before transitioning. Reckless, self destructive behaviors are pretty common. How you perceive isn't doesn't address the reality this is something that frequently leads to bloody internal warfare that has claimed a lot of lives.
No, that's not all it is and isn't bearing a cross as a Christian might, but ultimately even if medical transition extends your life by preventing suicide it's still likely to shave a few years off our life just so we can stand to look at ourselves in the mirror.
So, when I'm in a support group for all that (and those themselves are not really about the bad but celebrating doing what can be done to accept or overcome the bad) and things like finding ways to better express ones gender depending on one's mood for the day or how to be as androgynous as possible are usually where the more common discussions are, I don't feel like it's where I belong. I'm going through something entirely different, and frequently involves people who never had a spark of life in their eyes until they transition.

 

[Estro Felino]

I do generally do ignore JK Rowling except when discussions about why I disagree with her come up, such as this thread. But when people are being jerks I call them out on it when appropriate. And JK Rowling is a jerk.

The situation in the US is very different than in my country.
If a YouTuber like Arielle Scarcella identified this tendency, it means there is an overwhelming number of trans women who are into ciswomen.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

How is it the wrong problem when I can't get support for what I'm going through at a support group that's supposed to be for those like me but hardly anyone is like me and able to offer any support or insights?

That pain ultimately is a part if it. That's why averting unwanted puberty is important. That's why gender appropriate socialization is important. It's why the medical field must be better trained (my personal anecdote, especially those in the mental health field) to alleviate and even avert suffering.
Another way of looking at it, people can see as female all day but when I see my shadow I see a silhouette that induces dysphoria.
And what I am attacking is that we're all in the same boat together. We're not. To me it feels hardly any different than when someone tries to lump in autism and those who just have poor social skills in the same category. Both categories have individuals who are at risk of loneliness but the reasons are very different and the solutions as well will be different because the two groups are different and have this issue for different reasons.

On the subject of autism, there are a *lot* of autistic people that don't experience the same things I do, as presentation of autism is a huge spectrum, with different presentations within that spectrum effected by hormones and comorbidity or other severities.

A lot, but not all autistic people have speech or processing problems or neurological problems like seizures. But those of us who don't are no less autistic. And the standard of criterion for accessing care isn't based off having autism but your specific needs in accordance to your specific presentation of autism.

Transgender is different from autism in that transgender isn't a diagnosis at all. So no benefits are given on the basis of being transgender. Only based on the diagnosis of gender dysphoria and its severity.

 

[Debater Slayer]

While that's true, it's also true we do have a shared, collective misery before transitioning. Reckless, self destructive behaviors are pretty common. How you perceive isn't doesn't address the reality this is something that frequently leads to bloody internal warfare that has claimed a lot of lives.
No, that's not all it is and isn't bearing a cross as a Christian might, but ultimately even if medical transition extends your life by preventing suicide it's still likely to shave a few years off our life just so we can stand to look at ourselves in the mirror.
So, when I'm in a support group for all that (and those themselves are not really about the bad but celebrating doing what can be done to accept or overcome the bad) and things like finding ways to better express ones gender depending on one's mood for the day or how to be as androgynous as possible are usually where the more common discussions are, I don't feel like it's where I belong. I'm going through something entirely different, and frequently involves people who never had a spark of life in their eyes until they transition.

What would you suggest as a solution to this? For many people, we see that the current medical consensus doesn't list gender dysphoria as a requirement to be transgender and don't think it would be sound to simply dismiss that. At the same time, I can't dismiss experiences like yours either, so I'd be interested to know what potential solutions could be.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What would you suggest as a solution to this? For many people, we see that the current medical consensus doesn't list gender dysphoria as a requirement to be transgender and don't think it would be sound to simply dismiss that. At the same time, I can't dismiss experiences like yours either, so I'd be interested to know what potential solutions could be.

I'd just separate us again like we used to be.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I'd just separate us again like we used to be.

In terms of the labeling (i.e., transgender vs. something else) or in terms of the criteria for joining different support groups?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The situation in the US is very different than in my country.
If a YouTuber like Arielle Scarcella identified this tendency, it means there is an overwhelming number of trans women who are desperate to be in a relationship with a woman.
And that is preoccupying. And that strengthens Rowling's point.
And also interesting...considering the number of people who are into ciswomen in Italy is smaller and smaller.
This video is very interesting...also because I didn't expect it.

Stop trying to present youtube content creators as a majority, they're not. Especially don't do that if you don't listen to anyone on the other side.

If you agree with JK then you agree that transwomen aren't really women, just men in women's costumes. Is that really what you think?

Also not surprising that it's smaller because Italy is in general more homophobic and keeps with strict and outdated gender roles.

 

[Estro Felino]

If you agree with JK then you agree that transwomen aren't really women, just men in women's costumes. Is that really what you think?

Also not surprising that it's smaller because Italy is in general more homophobic and keeps with strict and outdated gender roles.

I have already said I disagree with Rowling.
I think she is wrong and maybe she over-generalizes.

 

[Left Coast]

She's trying to hide behind semantics, while her actions speak louder than vague-ish statements on biology. She is actively anti-trans, funding and backing legislature and language that continues to dehumanize transpeople in the UK and abroad. The outrage and criticism that she gets is absolutely warranted, and she doesn't get to cry crocodile tears and weep misunderstanding with the damage that she's caused.

She either needs to shut up and go away, or reverse course in more than self-victimization if she wants to rectify anything.

What legislation has she funded or backed? I knew she had made public statements that were problematic, I didn't know about legislation.

 

[SomeRandom]

What legislation has she funded or backed? I knew she had made public statements that were problematic, I didn't know about legislation.

I know she publicly condemned a Scottish bill recently (I think it was called Gender Reaffirming or something to that effect.)
The bill would have made it much easier for people to legally change their sex on their birth certificate, basically withdrawing the requirement for medical diagnosis to do so. As is my understanding
I could see her donating to the campaign/s against said proposed bill. But I can’t find enough information to draw a conclusion either way.
The bill was ultimately not passed and I suspect people are eager to attribute that largely to Rowling’s vocal (and possible monetary) condemnation.

I don’t know if I would agree with that assessment. But in saying that, it’s also a bit hard to see what exactly she has donated to specifically. I can find her vocal criticism or support for various legislation much easier.

Maybe there are laws against political donations being public knowledge in the UK? Or maybe such information is just buried under all the years worth of controversies. Or maybe she donated to the campaigns under false names for easy plausible deniability in the long run. Idk.

But I have seen her vocal and monetary support for various anti trans bills come up quite a bit. So I’m a little eager to know the specifics myself.
Just a bit hard to find right now with the game controversy blowing up everywhere

 

[ADigitalArtist]

What legislation has she funded or backed? I knew she had made public statements that were problematic, I didn't know about legislation.

She publicly backed a UK block of Scottish gender reform bill which would allow Scottish transgender people to change their gender status without needing to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria (which not all trans have) or going through a long wait period.

She also funds women's crisis centers which actively exclude transwomen.

She also gave donations to Alison Bailey, the founder of the LBG Alliance, which specifically opposes trans recognization as antithetical to lesbian interests and opposes banning conversion therapy for trans people in the UK.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A lot, but not all autistic people have speech or processing problems or neurological problems like seizures. But those of us who don't are no less autistic. And the standard of criterion for accessing care isn't based off having autism but your specific needs in accordance to your specific presentation of autism.

Of course, but I've seen a lot where people just don't get there's a profound difference despite the similarities.
I meant nothing more than mentioning this observation where you have two things that seem similar but they are very different under the surface.

Transgender is different from autism in that transgender isn't a diagnosis at all. So no benefits are given on the basis of being transgender. Only based on the diagnosis of gender dysphoria and its severity.

With insurance coverage that diagnosis is a tremendous benefit, and it also helps open up legal protections. That was my point, as insurance will take wherever it can for any half excuse it can find.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In terms of the labeling (i.e., transgender vs. something else) or in terms of the criteria for joining different support groups?

Used to be there was us (those medically transitioning) and everybody else doing their own thing, and there was no grouping us with cross dressers and especially not drag queens.

 

[Augustus]

I know she publicly condemned a Scottish bill recently (I think it was called Gender Reaffirming or something to that effect.)
The bill would have made it much easier for people to legally change their sex on their birth certificate, basically withdrawing the requirement for medical diagnosis to do so. As is my understanding
I could see her donating to the campaign/s against said proposed bill. But I can’t find enough information to draw a conclusion either way.
The bill was ultimately not passed and I suspect people are eager to attribute that largely to Rowling’s vocal (and possible monetary) condemnation.

I don’t know if I would agree with that assessment. But in saying that, it’s also a bit hard to see what exactly she has donated to specifically. I can find her vocal criticism or support for various legislation much easier.

Maybe there are laws against political donations being public knowledge in the UK? Or maybe such information is just buried under all the years worth of controversies. Or maybe she donated to the campaigns under false names for easy plausible deniability in the long run. Idk.

But I have seen her vocal and monetary support for various anti trans bills come up quite a bit. So I’m a little eager to know the specifics myself.
Just a bit hard to find right now with the game controversy blowing up everywhere

It is worth pointing out that there was a major scandal in Scotland recently when a rapist suddenly 'transitioned' prior to trial and would have ended up in a women's prison (albeit in a segregated unit). The government initially confirmed this, but later was forced to back down amid public outcry.

This is exactly the kind of thing that people were worried about, but were instead just dismissed as irrational transphobic bigots.

Knowing that rapists are not exactly welcomed in male prisons, it's hard to imagine that such an option wouldn't be more attractive to many rapists rather than spending 10 years trying to avoid being maimed by psychopaths.

A lot of opposition is not about trans people at all, but about the laws being poorly thought out and the potential for bad-faith actors to exploit the system which endangers others.

Some people will exploit any opportunity or loophole, so there is no doubt at all that such incidents will occur. The question is what is an acceptable level of harm that results from them.

 

[SomeRandom]

It is worth pointing out that there was a major scandal in Scotland recently when a rapist suddenly 'transitioned' prior to trial and would have ended up in a women's prison (albeit in a segregated unit). The government initially confirmed this, but later was forced to back down amid public outcry.

This is exactly the kind of thing that people were worried about, but were instead just dismissed as irrational transphobic bigots.

Knowing that rapists are not exactly welcomed in male prisons, it's hard to imagine that such an option wouldn't be more attractive to many rapists rather than spending 10 years trying to avoid being maimed by psychopaths.

A lot of opposition is not about trans people at all, but about the laws being poorly thought out and the potential for bad-faith actors to exploit the system which endangers others.

Some people will exploit any opportunity or loophole, so there is no doubt at all that such incidents will occur. The question is what is an acceptable level of harm that results from them.

That’s a fair point.
People are very quick to label concerns over various legislation over trans identities as simply transphobic. Whilst I think that is often the case (sorry) I do also think legitimate discussions should be happening as well. So as to hear out and address any legitimate good faith concerns as well

I think that loopholes should be addressed as we go along with our (presumably) changing laws, social or otherwise.
And I understand that change needs to occur slowly for pragmatic reasons.
For example if prisons do recognise the gender of prisoners, the place that puts them in should be more of a case by case basis. (Forgive my sloppy phrasing if you please.)
Though I suppose that may need to include even more “sectioning.”

Though with what I’ve seen (and I’m admitting upfront that I’m just going by only what I’ve been able to dig up) Rowling’s brand of “gender critical theory” is based entirely upon hysteria, fear and hyperbole. I mean she got upset over the phrase “people who menstruate” for crying out loud. So I probably would have been in the camp of calling Rowling’s opposition to this Scottish bill based on sheer hyperbole if not bigotry. Simply because of what I’ve seen about her other reactions. Maybe that is unfair of me to do so.
But I don’t see how a rapist could use said bill to get into women’s prison. But I’m not from Scotland so I won’t pretend to know the specific ins and outs of said bill nor the surrounding nuances

 

[We Never Know]

Stop trying to present youtube content creators as a majority, they're not. Especially don't do that if you don't listen to anyone on the other side.

If you agree with JK then you agree that transwomen aren't really women, just men in women's costumes. Is that really what you think?

Also not surprising that it's smaller because Italy is in general more homophobic and keeps with strict and outdated gender roles.

"If you agree with JK then you agree that transwomen aren't really women, just men in women's costumes. Is that really what you think?"

What defines someone as being a woman?