John 1:12 But as many as received him...

[e.r.m.]

This question is directed to all our Catholic friends. But of course, all are welcomed to reply. Although my evangelical friends may disagree, my understanding of how they take this verse is that they are first taught that we are saved by "receiving Jesus as Savior" (typically in the form of a prayer, but not always) from a preacher or friend, and then with that teaching they look at John 1:12 only as a confirmation to the paradigm that has already been instilled. I speak only for my own experience, & I do not intend this as a universal statement. I personally have never met an evangelical who looked at John 1:12 and did not automatically conclude that this meant "receiving Jesus as savior", based on prior learning. I do not mean this derogatorally. Just what I've seen. I am open to being corrected if this is not the case.

My understanding from looking at the greek is that this scripture is much more basic, referring only to those who decided to take Jesus seriously, believe that God sent Him, and that he was worth paying attention to, with no immediate reference to salvation.
John 10:19 The Jews who heard these words were again divided. [20] Many of them said, “He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?” [21] But others said, “These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”

John 9:31-33 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will. [32] Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. [33] If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.”


Mark 1:21-22 They went to Capernaum, and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach. [22] The people were amazed at his teaching, because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law.

To my understanding, for Catholics salvation is not an event but a process.

What is your take on the phrase "But as many as received him..."?

Thank you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What is your take on the phrase "But as many as received him.."?

Thank you.

For some reason, I don't understand the question. You are right, though, salvation is a process. It isn't a "I say I believe and I say I will follow 'boom' I'm saved." From how I understood Catholicism when I practiced three years ago is that gradually we are building our relationship with Christ through the Church. So every time we take communion, we are confirming our relationship with Him and His Father. To believe in Christ is an action rather than a belief.

Can you rephrase your question if I haven't answered it already?

 

[Faybull]

to those that receive him, he gives authority; they are as children of God that believe in this authority.


i think it may be to those that receive the good news, and i think the good news is:
like you don;t need to kill anyone or anything to atone for your transgressions, sacrifice isn;t what is acceptable, it is mercy. carry your own cross. stop shooting the messenger and be responsible, that is reverence...and if you don't know now you know.
in the words of someone rather.

 

[e.r.m.]

For some reason, I don't understand the question. You are right, though, salvation is a process. It isn't a "I say I believe and I say I will follow 'boom' I'm saved." From how I understood Catholicism when I practiced three years ago is that gradually we are building our relationship with Christ through the Church. So every time we take communion, we are confirming our relationship with Him and His Father. To believe in Christ is an action rather than a belief.

Can you rephrase your question if I haven't answered it already?

Thank you for trying. My question in other words is, what does the phrase as many as received him mean to Catholics? What does it mean to receive Jesus in this verse?

 

[e.r.m.]

to those that receive him, he gives authority; they are as children of God that believe in this authority.

i think it may be to those that receive the good news, and i think the good news is:
like you don;t need to kill anyone or anything to atone for your transgressions, sacrifice isn;t what is acceptable, it is mercy. carry your own cross. stop shooting the messenger and be responsible, that is reverence...and if you don't know now you know.
in the words of someone rather.

Thank you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thank you for trying. My question in other words is, what does the phrase as many as received him mean to Catholics? What does it mean to receive Jesus in this verse?

Let me read it in context. From that phrase alone, though, receiving Christ is taking Him into your heart...to a Catholic that not only means by spirit, it means by the Eucharist too. Without receiving His flesh and blood, how does one really receive Christ.

I will get back with you with that.

 

[e.r.m.]

Let me read it in context. From that phrase alone, though, receiving Christ is taking Him into your heart...to a Catholic that not only means by spirit, it means by the Eucharist too. Without receiving His flesh and blood, how does one really receive Christ.

I will get back with you with that.

Thank you.

 

[e.r.m.]

Let me read it in context. From that phrase alone, though, receiving Christ is taking Him into your heart...to a Catholic that not only means by spirit, it means by the Eucharist too. Without receiving His flesh and blood, how does one really receive Christ.

I will get back with you with that.

I'm thinking about your reply further. Do you believe the verse includes that those in the first century received Jesus through the Lord Supper, resulting in having the right to become children of God? I'm not speaking of receiving Jesus in general, I'm speaking specifically about this verse. I'm not sure if it fits because the Lord's Supper really didn't take effect until after Jesus's crucifixion. I think John 1:12 refers to Jesus's audience from the time he started preaching. What do you think?

 

[e.r.m.]

to those that receive him, he gives authority; they are as children of God that believe in this authority.


i think it may be to those that receive the good news, and i think the good news is:
like you don;t need to kill anyone or anything to atone for your transgressions, sacrifice isn;t what is acceptable, it is mercy. carry your own cross. stop shooting the messenger and be responsible, that is reverence...and if you don't know now you know.
in the words of someone rather.

So you don't think receiving Jesus in John 1:12 is talking about a salvation prayer then?

 

[Faybull]

I believe that by believing the messenger we are on our way.

 

[Faybull]

I believe that by believing the messenger we are on our way.

like, accepting the gospel of...

 

[Faybull]

if I were to bring good news, or the gospel, it is for some reactionary experience...for the benefit of mankind.

 

[Faybull]

so what was his message? I am pretty sure he was sent to make a path in the wilderness.

 

[e.r.m.]

like, accepting the gospel of...

I agree with both your posts, since it says they were given the right to become children of God.

 

[e.r.m.]

so what was his message? I am pretty sure he was sent to make a path in the wilderness.

Agreed. from what I understand, Jesus's initial message was repent and believe the good news of the kingdom of God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm reading the New American Bible now and this is how it phrases John 1:12

"But to those who did accept Him He gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. (13) who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man's decision but of God."

I think John was talking to I assume possible followers of Christ. He was telling them that in order for them to be "saved" they must 'accept the power' so they can 'become children of God."

The way a Catholic might interpret that would be...when they "Accept the power" they are taking the responsibility, duties, and belief in what it takes to follow Christ so that they are (rather than will be) children of God; they do this by taking the sacraments, and embedded in them is the process of being saved.

Protestant, on the other hand, seem to say that once someone "believes" they are automatically saved, as though our belief makes our salvation reality. Scripture doesn't teach that and the Church doesn't either. Rather, in the Gospels John teaches that we are to follow Christ. We baptise people in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It's an action faith.

So, Catholics interpret "receiving" as an action because of God's grace compared to protestants who view it as a belief by God's grace.

Hopefully, that helped a bit. I'm not too scriptural intelligent these days.

I'm thinking about your reply further. Do you believe the verse includes that those in the first century received Jesus through the Lord Supper, resulting in having the right to become children of God? I'm not speaking of receiving Jesus in general, I'm speaking specifically about this verse. I'm not sure if it fits because the Lord's Supper really didn't take effect until after Jesus's crucifixion. I think John 1:12 refers to Jesus's audience from the time he started preaching. What do you think?

 

[e.r.m.]

I'm reading the New American Bible now and this is how it phrases John 1:12

"But to those who did accept Him He gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. (13) who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man's decision but of God."

I think John was talking to I assume possible followers of Christ. He was telling them that in order for them to be "saved" they must 'accept the power' so they can 'become children of God."

The way a Catholic might interpret that would be...when they "Accept the power" they are taking the responsibility, duties, and belief in what it takes to follow Christ so that they are (rather than will be) children of God; they do this by taking the sacraments, and embedded in them is the process of being saved.

Protestant, on the other hand, seem to say that once someone "believes" they are automatically saved, as though our belief makes our salvation reality. Scripture doesn't teach that and the Church doesn't either. Rather, in the Gospels John teaches that we are to follow Christ. We baptise people in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It's an action faith.

So, Catholics interpret "receiving" as an action because of God's grace compared to protestants who view it as a belief by God's grace.

Hopefully, that helped a bit. I'm not too scriptural intelligent these days.

Thank you, so I'm seeing a developing catholic pattern of receiving's Association with sacraments. Also if I understand, salvation comes instantly with receiving, it's just that receiving is defined by responsibilities and sacraments in stead of a salvation prayer. Let me know if I understand correctly. Thank you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thank you, so I'm seeing a developing catholic pattern of receiving's Association with sacraments.

Also if I understand, salvation comes instantly with receiving, it's just that receiving is defined by responsibilities and sacraments in stead of a salvation prayer. Let me know if I understand correctly. Thank you.

Yes, in Catholicism, receiving Christ (accepting the power) is specifically in all the sacraments that a Catholic takes and continues to take (as in Confession and Communion). I remember you saying salvation is a process. Catholics believe that too. Don't get me wrong, they are not saying they aren't saved until they go to Mass; it's more, they are continuing in the salvation process daily rather than saying "okay, God can handle it...." and only remembering they are saved (worshiping) when they go to church or spiritually enlightened.

Prayer is deeply embedded in the Catholic faith. You can't get by in Catholicism without saying at least one Our Father. Prayer is a devotional tool rather than a salvation method.

 

[e.r.m.]

Yes, in Catholicism, receiving Christ (accepting the power) is specifically in all the sacraments that a Catholic takes and continues to take (as in Confession and Communion). I remember you saying salvation is a process. Catholics believe that too. Don't get me wrong, they are not saying they aren't saved until they go to Mass; it's more, they are continuing in the salvation process daily rather than saying "okay, God can handle it...." and only remembering they are saved (worshiping) when they go to church or spiritually enlightened.

Prayer is deeply embedded in the Catholic faith. You can't get by in Catholicism without saying at least one Our Father. Prayer is a devotional tool rather than a salvation method.

Thank you. In evangelicalism it's both. The verse doesn't say received the power, it says received Him. They are not the same.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thank you. In evangelicalism it's both. The verse doesn't say received the power, it says received Him. They are not the same.

Really? Wouldn't receiving the power be receiving Him (the Holy Spirit, I guess you can say)?