John Doe believes in god and you don't. Why do you think he is wrong and you are right?

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

So there are over 7 billion people in the world. out of them how many are theists, and what was your sample size to do this study in order to decide that the all have "failure of critical thinking"?

I am a theist and yet I can concede that theists and everyone else have flaws. Being criticized is not bad.

 

[firedragon]

I am a theist and yet I can concede that theists and everyone else have flaws. Being criticized is not bad.

Criticism is perfect fine. Its not bigotry. But when a prejudice like mental problems, critical thinking problems and scientific philosophical incapability is generalised to billions of people due to their path of choice, that itself is bigotry.

Anyone who thinks bigotry is good is not good.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

But it was you who claimed that there are evidence to the contrary.

Something like Yahweh is claimed to have existed for all time but can only be traced to, at best, the late Bronze Age?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

A good example of this is the Hurricane Katrina situation from years ago - when the hurricane hit New Orleans. I specifically remember many theists making statements about how God wasn't happy about the conditions and activities surrounding Mardi Gras, and that New Orleans was a den of iniquity due to the types of things it was known for during those parties and therefore at other times as well.

The best part was that Bourbon Street was pretty much untouched. Seems like God spares the gay hood.

 

[firedragon]

Something like Yahweh is claimed to have existed for all time but can only be traced to, at best, the late Bronze Age?

I honestly dont like to use that word unless really necessary because the Jews revere is and dont like it to be mentioned. But you maybe right. literally, one could trace the mention of a particular name for a God to a particular time period, always.

But that is not what I was talking about in that sentence you replied to. The person I replied to was making a statement that all theists are mentally handicapped, intellectually incapable, and delusional, just because they are theists. So I ask for evidence, research data, and studies that proves all theists are basically dumb and stupid as he said. Then he defined only the word "delusional" which he claimed all theists are since they are believing what they do contrary to the evidence to the contrary. Do you understand? So I asked for what is this "evidence to the contrary". Then since he changed his position three times I had to remind him that he claimed to have evidence "to the contrary".

I hope you understand.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Do you know many people who credit Star Wars with saving their lives, when seemingly no human power could?

If you do, then good for George Lucas. Unlikely, though tbh.

Muppets got me through a bad childhood. Unlike Jesus, I can go over to Disney and see the Muppets for myself.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Objective truth?
With whose vision?

To my mind, you go with the best that you can muster. And in our case I feel that "best" to be what can be verified-by or evidence-to any one of us... not just some select few or, worse, one. In lieu of having "the real deal" (that is, objective truth in this case), wouldn't you agree that we should run with the best that we've got toward achieving that ultimate goal?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

So I ask for evidence, research data, and studies that proves all theists are basically dumb and stupid as he said.

Well, there are the studies that show certain denominations/religions are associated with lower IQs and less compassion.

 

[oldbadger]

To my mind, you go with the best that you can muster. And in our case I feel that "best" to be what can be verified-by or evidence-to any one of us... not just some select few or, worse, one. In lieu of having "the real deal" (that is, objective truth in this case), wouldn't you agree that we should run with the best that we've got toward achieving that ultimate goal?

Since I can not know what the truth is, it's been changed and backtracked so many times in my life, I like to acknowledge everybody's truth because this helps communication and friendship as far as possible.
I only feel like challenging those 'truths' which want to mess about with other people's lives, freedoms, choices etc.
It's just how I feel. You know?

 

[oldbadger]

Muppets got me through a bad childhood. Unlike Jesus, I can go over to Disney and see the Muppets for myself.

They're not real, you know.
Now Grommit the little dog..... he's a real hero.

 

[firedragon]

Well, there are the studies that show certain denominations/religions are associated with lower IQs and less compassion.

a. Is it because they are theists?
b. Is it correlation data or causality?
c. How could that be generalised? Any testing done?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Over the centuries many 'reasonable' regimes have attempted to build atheistic societies and have failed.

I was honestly confused what you meant by this. Can you give me a couple of examples, as way of clarifying?

 

[passerby]

Who mentioned Utopia?- all human societies are flawed. I was just saying if you take religion away from people what follows doesn't work either.

 

[passerby]

I’ve never heard about a theocratic utopia either.

I was honestly confused what you meant by this. Can you give me a couple of examples, as way of clarifying?

The first French republic
The Third Reich
Communism states adhering to the tenets of Marxism of which there are many examples in the 20th century.
North Korea
The present regime in China

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The first French republic
The Third Reich
Communism states adhering to the tenets of Marxism of which there are many examples in the 20th century.
North Korea
The present regime in China

I see an interesting sort of prejudice and chauvinism in your post.

I mean, set aside the fact that several of those regimes were actually theist; all of them opposed the principles of freethought and secular humanism that are popular among atheists today.

Why would you lump a wide spectrum of views all together just because they disagree with you on a single point?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I only feel like challenging those 'truths' which want to mess about with other people's lives, freedoms, choices etc.
It's just how I feel. You know?

And I feel like challenging religion because, in my experience, it has quite often lead to people wanting to mess about with other people's lives, freedoms, choices, etc.

It's just how I feel. You know?

 

[Valjean]

Who mentioned Utopia?- all human societies are flawed. I was just saying if you take religion away from people what follows doesn't work either.

Western Europe doesn't work?
...and what constitutes 'working,' anyway? What does religion accomplish that good social institutions can't do better?

 

[passerby]

I see an interesting sort of prejudice and chauvinism in your post.

I mean, set aside the fact that several of those regimes were actually theist; all of them opposed the principles of freethought and secular humanism that are popular among atheists today.

Why would you lump a wide spectrum of views all together just because they disagree with you on a single point?

Prejudice? You asked me for some examples of atheistic states. Some you may regard as Theist but they certainly persecuted if not directly banning religious practises that contradicted their political principles.

I was just trying to make the case that the promotion of atheism does not necessarily allow for social freedoms or individual liberties.

 

[passerby]

Religion separate from state control provides a degree of social cohesion, a sense of communal belonging through shared rituals,common aims. On an individual level it motivates people to make moral decisions, obey laws, contribute to the communal good and gives people a sense of direction and purpose.
Western Europe is a good case- it is overwhelmingly Christian in culture- many political parties in Europe are Christian democrats and religion is a major feature of European societies.
If we stick with Eastern bloc countries they have mostly overthrown their Communist/atheistic governments and now allow religious freedom for people of all faiths.
They overthrew their Communist dictatorships because they were not working on economic or political levels. I hope I've answered your point.

 

[oldbadger]

And I feel like challenging religion because, in my experience, it has quite often lead to people wanting to mess about with other people's lives, freedoms, choices, etc.

It's just how I feel. You know?

Yeah, but some religions/faiths/ways are not like that.
Examples?
Ummmm. ....... Quakers?...... Buddhism?....... Universalism?

I mean, you could be so busy bashing some of the really intrusive, aggressive ones that you'd never have time to give the nice ones a kicking!

But I do like having a go at some of the Abrahamic sects, cults etc.