Lightkeeper
Well-Known Member
What do you think the true meaning of this story is? Do other religions have similar stories?
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Jonah and The Whale
- Thread starter Lightkeeper
- Start date
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
I have read that the story of Jonah was a piece of protest literature of it's time, (Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, pg. 72, Spong). The author was questioning the prevailing prejudices against anyone who was not Jewish. The Jewish thought of the day was that God did not like anyone outside the Jewish people. The main character of the story, Jonah, believed this as well, and if I'm remembering the story correctly, he refused to deliever a message to the people of Ninevah, because they were not Jewish. After his adventures inside the belly of a great fish (I have also read that the great fish is only called a whale in folklore, not in the Scriptures), Jonah finally realized that it God's love was for all, not just the Jewish people.
Lightkeeper
Well-Known Member
Jesus referred to Jonah and the Great Fish as a foretelling of his resurrection. Jonah was in the Fish 3 days and 3 nights.
Another level I can see here is the separation from and return to the inner Divine. The fish is a religious symbol. In evolutionary theory we came from the sea. Jonah returned to the sea to be reborn.
Another level I can see here is the separation from and return to the inner Divine. The fish is a religious symbol. In evolutionary theory we came from the sea. Jonah returned to the sea to be reborn.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
how about don't **** god off or you'll get swallowed by a big fish?
god punnishes those that cheeze him off
Beg for mercy and you may be forgiven?
wa:do
god punnishes those that cheeze him off
Beg for mercy and you may be forgiven?
wa:do
The story of Jonah and the Whale is a 'metaphorical spiritual lesson' portraying "the process of becoming and fulfilling' our own individual reasons and purposes for "being".
Jonah had a 'call' on his life to go to Ninevah and preach, which he didn't want to do. He chose instead...to run from that call. Like Jonah, each and everyone of us have a 'divine' call or purpose for our 'being' and also like Jonah...we can either choose to follow that call or we can run from it. We run when we pursue our own desired self interests ...instead of our spiritual purpose for being.
The water...is the place in life where we end up..."in over our heads" when we do run. The 'belly of the whale', (dark and hopeless as it seems) is that place/situation God 'prepares' ...that preserves us in the midst of it all. It was the whale that kept Jonah alive and also the place where God did the work in Jonah's heart. A work where Jonah's fleshly desires died out to the spiritual reason for which he was created.
Jesus references the 'belly of the whale' as a sign for the Jews demanding such from him, symbolizing the metamorphosis that takes place when the flesh dies out to the spirit. Spirits as humans choosing to live for the reason they came and not just in the temporal moment of the carnal man. This is what Jesus was all about.
His whole life was a life given over to following the 'spirit' and not the 'flesh'. And while he gave the ultimate example of this by dying physically...the greatest thing he ever did was living his life so 'in-tuned' with his spiritual purpose for being... by crucifying his flesh daily, (choosing God's will over his own will).
Rhennyah
Jonah had a 'call' on his life to go to Ninevah and preach, which he didn't want to do. He chose instead...to run from that call. Like Jonah, each and everyone of us have a 'divine' call or purpose for our 'being' and also like Jonah...we can either choose to follow that call or we can run from it. We run when we pursue our own desired self interests ...instead of our spiritual purpose for being.
The water...is the place in life where we end up..."in over our heads" when we do run. The 'belly of the whale', (dark and hopeless as it seems) is that place/situation God 'prepares' ...that preserves us in the midst of it all. It was the whale that kept Jonah alive and also the place where God did the work in Jonah's heart. A work where Jonah's fleshly desires died out to the spiritual reason for which he was created.
Jesus references the 'belly of the whale' as a sign for the Jews demanding such from him, symbolizing the metamorphosis that takes place when the flesh dies out to the spirit. Spirits as humans choosing to live for the reason they came and not just in the temporal moment of the carnal man. This is what Jesus was all about.
His whole life was a life given over to following the 'spirit' and not the 'flesh'. And while he gave the ultimate example of this by dying physically...the greatest thing he ever did was living his life so 'in-tuned' with his spiritual purpose for being... by crucifying his flesh daily, (choosing God's will over his own will).
Rhennyah
.lava
Veteran Member
hi, there are verses about him in Qur'an. not to discuss, i am sending them just to share. btw we call him Yunus (PBUH)
37:139 And Yunus was most surely of the messengers.
37:140 When he ran away to a ship completely laden,
37:141 So he shared (with them), but was of those who are cast off.
37:142 So the fish swallowed him while he did that for which he blamed himself
37:143 But had it not been that he was of those who glorify (Us),
37:144 He would certainly have tarried in its belly to the day when they are raised.
37:145 Then We cast him on to the vacant surface of the earth while he was sick.
37:146 And We caused to grow up for him a gourdplant.
37:147 And We sent him to a hundred thousand, rather they exceeded.
37:148 And they believed, so We gave them provision till a time.
21:87 And Yunus, when he went away in wrath, so he thought that We would not straiten him, so he called out among afflictions: There is no god but Thou, glory be to Thee; surely I am of those who make themselves to suffer loss.
37:139 And Yunus was most surely of the messengers.
37:140 When he ran away to a ship completely laden,
37:141 So he shared (with them), but was of those who are cast off.
37:142 So the fish swallowed him while he did that for which he blamed himself
37:143 But had it not been that he was of those who glorify (Us),
37:144 He would certainly have tarried in its belly to the day when they are raised.
37:145 Then We cast him on to the vacant surface of the earth while he was sick.
37:146 And We caused to grow up for him a gourdplant.
37:147 And We sent him to a hundred thousand, rather they exceeded.
37:148 And they believed, so We gave them provision till a time.
21:87 And Yunus, when he went away in wrath, so he thought that We would not straiten him, so he called out among afflictions: There is no god but Thou, glory be to Thee; surely I am of those who make themselves to suffer loss.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
I'd be leery of basing an opinion on so little information.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
It's too bad he was vomited out of the fish/sea just as nasty as he was before and smelling like fish as well.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Sometime God will just have an *** talk to you straighten you out. (Balam's donkey).
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Are you sure he wasn't the "most surley of the messengers?"
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Either that or it was a story about a misdirectioned man who got swallowed by a big fish in order to get him to do God's bidding.
morningstar7
New Member
Darkwater
Well-Known Member
What expression did they have for the DT's in these (Jonah's) times?His time being prior to the distillation process(spirits),although beer & wine would be in plentiful supply....What is the biblical explanation for alcohol poisening/withdrawal symptoms?No doubt the *weed plant* was around too?Opium?
The 3 days & night's is similar to Shamanic practice & mirrors the span of a Setian self realisation process.
The only other explanation of the large fish story is in Tsang tsu philosophy,which I am more comfortable with.
The 3 days & night's is similar to Shamanic practice & mirrors the span of a Setian self realisation process.
The only other explanation of the large fish story is in Tsang tsu philosophy,which I am more comfortable with.
From the Jewish Encyclopedia ...
Purpose and Teachings.
It becomes necessary to inquire into the purpose and teaching of the book, because of the fact that it is not a historical narrative, but a midrash, and also because of its conclusion. The whole story ends with the lesson received by Jonah, the purpose of the book having thus been accomplished; and as one can not follow the effects of this lesson on Jonah's further career (unlike the story of Elijah in I Kings xix.), the lesson itself is in reality addressed to the reader, i.e., to the Jewish congregation. It is not probable that the story was carried on further in its original place in the Midrash of the Book of the Kings.
This short story, as Wellhausen has best expressed it, is directed "against the impatience of the Jewish believers, who are fretting because, notwithstanding all predictions, the antitheocratic world-empire has not yet been destroyed;because Yhwh is still postponing His judgment of the heathen, giving them further time for repentance. Yhwh, it is hinted, is hoping that they will turn from their sins in the eleventh hour; and He has compassion for the innocent ones, who would perish with the guilty." In agreement with this synopsis of the purpose, the book is closely akin to and emphasizes the basic passage, II Kings xiv. 26 et seq., which also shows, and as it were explains, how it is possible that Yhwh can grant a prophecy of good things to come to the disloyal Northern Kingdom and to a king who, according to verse 24, persists in all the sins of all his predecessors, and can then fulfil what He has promised. This purpose harmonizes perfectly with the idealized description of the piety of the heathenmariners (ch. i.) and of the king and the inhabitants of Nineveh (ch. iii.). The book is therefore in a way the negative pole to the positive pole in the Book of Ruth. The first shows why Yhwh does not destroy the heathen; the second, why and how He can even accept them among His people and bring them to high honor. Both these tendencies became apparent in Israel after the puristic reforms of Ezra and Nehemiah, which rigorously drew a sharp line between Israel and the pagan world. The opposition to this dominating doctrine was clothed in the unassuming but all the more effective garb of poetry and of story, as has happened time and again in similar cases. ...
Details of the Story.
All the details of the book are subordinated and made subservient to this one purpose; and there is every probability that it was invented only for that purpose, whereby of course appeal to other, well-known motives also is not excluded. The story of Elijah on Horeb (I Kings xix.) furnished the model for the general outline, and for the lesson taught the prophet, who was filled with doubts and was weary of his office. No search was necessary for the name of the hero, which was given in I Kings xiv. 25. The fact that "Jonah" means "dove" is a coincidence which must not be interpreted allegorically, as Cheyne has done. Nor must the fact that Israel is spoken of as a prophet in Deutero-Isaiah and is called "Servant of Yhwh" be used in order to attenuate the personality of Jonah to an allegory of the people of Israel; nor that he was swallowed by the sea, to an allegory of the Exile. All these are comparisons, it is true, which may easily be made and which are fully justified as secondary considerations, but they must not be allowed to confuse the simplicity of the original story.
Nor must mythological motives, although they may easily be deduced from the story, be regarded as constitutive elements that were introduced consciously. This applies to the Andromeda myth as well as to that of Oannes, of Nineveh as the "Fish City" ("nun"), etc., and to the chaotic dragon Tiamat, which has recently become a favorite myth with scholars (comp. Cheyne, l.c., s.v. "Jonah," for details). The author of the story was of course familiar with all the current conceptions regarding the sea; and he probably had in mind, whether consciously or not, the myths and sagas clinging to it (comp. the rich collection of material relating to these myths in Hermann Usener, "Die Sintfluthsagen," 1899). It was probably the intention of the author, however, to confine himself to the narration of a story which, dealing with the prophet Jonah known to tradition, should be a vehicle for the lesson he meant to teach.
So, it is suggested that Jonah is midrash on the Book of Kings whose author "puts into Yhwh's mouth warm words of mercy toward the sinful Northern Kingdom (II Kings xiv. 26 et seq.). It is easy to see how a midrash could be added showing that this mercy was extended even to an alien, heathen empire."It becomes necessary to inquire into the purpose and teaching of the book, because of the fact that it is not a historical narrative, but a midrash, and also because of its conclusion. The whole story ends with the lesson received by Jonah, the purpose of the book having thus been accomplished; and as one can not follow the effects of this lesson on Jonah's further career (unlike the story of Elijah in I Kings xix.), the lesson itself is in reality addressed to the reader, i.e., to the Jewish congregation. It is not probable that the story was carried on further in its original place in the Midrash of the Book of the Kings.
This short story, as Wellhausen has best expressed it, is directed "against the impatience of the Jewish believers, who are fretting because, notwithstanding all predictions, the antitheocratic world-empire has not yet been destroyed;because Yhwh is still postponing His judgment of the heathen, giving them further time for repentance. Yhwh, it is hinted, is hoping that they will turn from their sins in the eleventh hour; and He has compassion for the innocent ones, who would perish with the guilty." In agreement with this synopsis of the purpose, the book is closely akin to and emphasizes the basic passage, II Kings xiv. 26 et seq., which also shows, and as it were explains, how it is possible that Yhwh can grant a prophecy of good things to come to the disloyal Northern Kingdom and to a king who, according to verse 24, persists in all the sins of all his predecessors, and can then fulfil what He has promised. This purpose harmonizes perfectly with the idealized description of the piety of the heathenmariners (ch. i.) and of the king and the inhabitants of Nineveh (ch. iii.). The book is therefore in a way the negative pole to the positive pole in the Book of Ruth. The first shows why Yhwh does not destroy the heathen; the second, why and how He can even accept them among His people and bring them to high honor. Both these tendencies became apparent in Israel after the puristic reforms of Ezra and Nehemiah, which rigorously drew a sharp line between Israel and the pagan world. The opposition to this dominating doctrine was clothed in the unassuming but all the more effective garb of poetry and of story, as has happened time and again in similar cases. ...
Details of the Story.
All the details of the book are subordinated and made subservient to this one purpose; and there is every probability that it was invented only for that purpose, whereby of course appeal to other, well-known motives also is not excluded. The story of Elijah on Horeb (I Kings xix.) furnished the model for the general outline, and for the lesson taught the prophet, who was filled with doubts and was weary of his office. No search was necessary for the name of the hero, which was given in I Kings xiv. 25. The fact that "Jonah" means "dove" is a coincidence which must not be interpreted allegorically, as Cheyne has done. Nor must the fact that Israel is spoken of as a prophet in Deutero-Isaiah and is called "Servant of Yhwh" be used in order to attenuate the personality of Jonah to an allegory of the people of Israel; nor that he was swallowed by the sea, to an allegory of the Exile. All these are comparisons, it is true, which may easily be made and which are fully justified as secondary considerations, but they must not be allowed to confuse the simplicity of the original story.
Nor must mythological motives, although they may easily be deduced from the story, be regarded as constitutive elements that were introduced consciously. This applies to the Andromeda myth as well as to that of Oannes, of Nineveh as the "Fish City" ("nun"), etc., and to the chaotic dragon Tiamat, which has recently become a favorite myth with scholars (comp. Cheyne, l.c., s.v. "Jonah," for details). The author of the story was of course familiar with all the current conceptions regarding the sea; and he probably had in mind, whether consciously or not, the myths and sagas clinging to it (comp. the rich collection of material relating to these myths in Hermann Usener, "Die Sintfluthsagen," 1899). It was probably the intention of the author, however, to confine himself to the narration of a story which, dealing with the prophet Jonah known to tradition, should be a vehicle for the lesson he meant to teach.
The entry ends with the following interesting observation:
As far as can be seen, the canonicity of the book has never been seriously doubted. One might rather find in the Midrash ba-Midbar and perhaps also in Ta'an. ii. a vague reference to a time when the book was classed, not with the "Nebi'im," but with the "Ketubim." In that place it would at least find a sufficient counterpart in Ruth.
Again, midrash.It's a very, very short book and readily available online. There is little reason to rely on memory. Could you show where " he refused to deliever a message ... because they were not Jewish?"
Yes.