Judaism: Prophets of other nations

[jewscout]

first off...i wanna say i think this is the first ever Judaism same faith debate thread! So right on!!:jam:

i have a question for the jews of RF:
The Sages teach that G-d would reveal His will to all nations through other, non-jewish, prophets (example from Torah is Balaam). So in this way the non-jewish world would be able to be guided just as Moshe taught Torah to Israel.
What do you think of this?
Do you consider people like Budda, Jesus, or Muhammed to fall into this category?

 

[Deut 13:1]

Do you consider people like Budda, Jesus, or Muhammed to fall into this category?

No, although I have heard some Rabbi's discuss how followers of Mr. J think of themselves as coming to fullfill the Noahide laws through Christianity.

I happen to reject this notion.

Anyways, I'm off for a blind date, I'll be back around 10.

 

[jewscout]

No, although I have heard some Rabbi's discuss how followers of Mr. J think of themselves as coming to fullfill the Noahide laws through Christianity.

I happen to reject this notion.

Anyways, I'm off for a blind date, I'll be back around 10.

but what about christianity is necessarily against the Noahide laws?
aside from maybe idol worship i think that the teachings of christianity falls in line w/ the 7 laws.

 

[wmam]

The Sages teach that G-d would reveal His will to all nations through other, non-jewish, prophets (example from Torah is Balaam). So in this way the non-jewish world would be able to be guided just as Moshe taught Torah to Israel.
What do you think of this?
Do you consider people like Budda, Jesus, or Muhammed to fall into this category?

Kinda like Paul? And those he taught? Or even the other followers of Yahshua that were sent off to teach? And those they taught?

Only problem I see is that today, how can we be so sure what is being taught is in fact that which was taught by them of old? There does seem to be a great debate as to the TRUTH.

 

[Deut 13:1]

but what about christianity is necessarily against the Noahide laws?
aside from maybe idol worship i think that the teachings of christianity falls in line w/ the 7 laws.

I don't, think about sexual immorality. Plenty of Christians or ones who claim to be differ from what the Noahide laws state?

 

[Deut 13:1]

Kinda like Paul? And those he taught? Or even the other followers of Yahshua that were sent off to teach? And those they taught?

Only problem I see is that today, how can we be so sure what is being taught is in fact that which was taught by them of old? There does seem to be a great debate as to the TRUTH.

As this is the SAME FAITH DEBATE forum, you can take Paul and take it to one of the other billion threads here. I'll wait for JS or another moderator to delete your post. If you care to discuss this, you can create a thread in the Religious debate section. Thanks for your deep understanding.

 

[jewscout]

I don't, think about sexual immorality. Plenty of Christians or ones who claim to be differ from what the Noahide laws state?

Like what? I have no doubt that there are many christians who do abide by those laws just as there are many jews (maybe not observant ones, but jews none the less) who don't abide by Torah Laws on sexuality or traditional practices of Modesty.

regardless of practice i think the place where christianity will find a problem w/ the Noahidic laws is in the place of Idolitry (but even that i think is debatable as well)

 

[jewscout]

**MOD POST**​

this is a same faith debate on Judaism​

 

[wmam]

As this is the SAME FAITH DEBATE forum, you can take Paul and take it to one of the other billion threads here. I'll wait for JS or another moderator to delete your post. If you care to discuss this, you can create a thread in the Religious debate section. Thanks for your deep understanding.

Oh I am so sorry. My bad. I seen where you asked a question and put Jesus in the mix as being someone who might be a part of your statement and question and I figured since he was a teacher then maybe those he had taught would or might fall into the same category as you asked. Again sorry. Didn't mean to excite nor offend.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Like what? I have no doubt that there are many christians who do abide by those laws just as there are many jews (maybe not observant ones, but jews none the less) who don't abide by Torah Laws on sexuality or traditional practices of Modesty.

Yes, but those Jews don't claim that the laws allow for homosexuality in a loving and caring enviroment. They plainly say yes, it is wrong, we don't care.

regardless of practice i think the place where christianity will find a problem w/ the Noahidic laws is in the place of Idolitry (but even that i think is debatable as well)

How is that debateable?

 

[jewscout]

How is that debateable?

well if you take Deut. 4:19
and lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun and the moon and the stars, even all the host of heaven, thou be drawn away and worship them, and serve them, which HaShem thy G-d hath allotted unto all the peoples under the whole heaven. it seems to me, looking at this, and based on the commentary that HaShem allows the other nations to stray after false g-ds, that Christians can look to Jesus as a means to approach the One G-d, and for them it is not really idolitry

this is just my interpretation of the verses.

 

[Deut 13:1]

well if you take Deut. 4:19
and lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun and the moon and the stars, even all the host of heaven, thou be drawn away and worship them, and serve them, which HaShem thy G-d hath allotted unto all the peoples under the whole heaven. it seems to me, looking at this, and based on the commentary that HaShem allows the other nations to stray after false g-ds, that Christians can look to Jesus as a means to approach the One G-d, and for them it is not really idolitry

this is just my interpretation of the verses.

Yes, but does that include gods that tell other these other nations to go and convince jews to go worship them?

 

[jewscout]

Yes, but does that include gods that tell other these other nations to go and convince jews to go worship them?

but do you deny that they (christians, and muslims as well) believe they are following the G-d of Abraham?

They just think they got the upgraded message, when we are taught that there will never be an upgrade to the Torah.
But that's why we have the Lubavitch movement and groups like Jews4Judaism:bounce
to help bring jews back to Torah

but for a non-jew can't they have an intermidiary between themselves and HaShem? If they ultimately see HaShem as the One G-d?

 

[Deut 13:1]

but do you deny that they (christians, and muslims as well) believe they are following the G-d of Abraham?

They might think they are, but they are not.

but for a non-jew can't they have an intermidiary between themselves and HaShem?

Yes, under certain cercimstances... One of which being not to purposely trick Jews into going after false gods.

If they ultimately see HaShem as the One G-d?

Yes, but a 3 for for the price of 1 deal isn't really One G-d. Read Deut 6:4, that *One* has no parts/or separate beings.

 

[jewscout]

They might think they are, but they are not.

what in your mind would make them truely following the G-d of Abraham?
if their faith system basically embodies the 7 Noahidic laws isn't that enough?

Yes, under certain cercimstances... One of which being not to purposely trick Jews into going after false gods.

then you would accept John Hagee's ministry as being within those circumstances? Just FYI John Hagee's ministry is one that believes the jews do not need conversion into christianity, they have their covenant w/ G-d through Abraham.

Yes, but a 3 for for the price of 1 deal isn't really One G-d. Read Deut 6:4, that *One* has no parts/or separate beings.

I think even the Trinitarian understands a concept of One G-d on some level.

and i think that when Moshiach comes it will not be difficult for them to transition from that view to a view more along the lines of Judaism's view of G-d.

 

[Deut 13:1]

what in your mind would make them truely following the G-d of Abraham?
if their faith system basically embodies the 7 Noahidic laws isn't that enough?

Yes, the noahides are enough for non-jews.

then you would accept John Hagee's ministry as being within those circumstances? Just FYI John Hagee's ministry is one that believes the jews do not need conversion into christianity, they have their covenant w/ G-d through Abraham.

From what you described above, yes. Although I freely admit I know nothing of John Hagee...

I think even the Trinitarian understands a concept of One G-d on some level.

Possibly, although from what I've gathered from people here and in my short life, it's 3 SEPARATE beings, let's find out, I'll post a thread and see what answers we get. I'll post link to it from here.

and i think that when Moshiach comes it will not be difficult for them to transition from that view to a view more along the lines of Judaism's view of G-d.

I agree 100% :jam:

 

[Deut 13:1]

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=328584#post328584

 

[Ody]

Do you consider people like Budda, Jesus, or Muhammed to fall into this category?

Jesus is controversial in Judaism, as is Buddha. Both 'prophet's are questioned as to whether thier followers follow the Noachide laws and thus the word of HaShem.

After all a trinity view of the divine is quite different from the oneness of G-d.