Judaism- The Happy Medium in the Abrahamic Religions

[fallingblood]

On the contrary, no it does NOT!!

The Founders of the Baha'i Faith were descendants of Abraham (between Them, through all three of His wives; details upon request), just as Jesus and Muhammad were Abrahamic descendants!

So while this may be something somebody doesn't know, the fact stands.

And no additional thread is needed because I was directly responding to your statement in this thread.

Peace,

Bruce

The fact is, there are no genealogies that span that distance of time, from Abraham to even Jesus (if you notice the genealogies in the Gospels, they are quite different, and even contradict other genealogies in the Old Testament). As for the Baha'i Faith, or even Islam, there is no credible evidence that proves that there is a lineage from Abraham to them. There are no reliable genealogies, no actual historical documents, nothing of any credibility that shows what you said to be fact. There is only faith, and in a historical debate, that really isn't much.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I don't see why being a descendant of Abraham is a criteria for considering a faith/religion to be Abrahamic, especially so for Christianity and Islam. Christians, believe in the OT (Hebrew Bible), so that in itself makes them Abrahamic, Muslims believe Abraham was a prophet and indirectly believe in the OT (specifically Genesis AFAIK), so that is enough for them to be considered Abrahamic. Besides, those who claim that they are descendants of Abraham are full of bogus IMO- as it is impossible to determine whether or not someone is his descendant.

If being a descendent of Abraham is a criterian for an Abrahamic faith then Christianity failed that one. Most Christians are European Caucasians.

 

[fallingblood]

If being a descendent of Abraham is a criterian for an Abrahamic faith then Christianity failed that one. Most Christians are European Caucasians.

That would be besides the point. Would you say that the majority of Jews are direct descendants of Abraham? Not at all, but it is the ideology that actually matters. It started with Abraham. Most first Christians though were simply off shoots of that.

More so, I don't think most Christians are European Caucasians. And again, it would be besides the point anyway. It would only matter of the first.

 

[BruceDLimber]

I don't see why being a descendant of Abraham is a criteria for considering a faith/religion to be Abrahamic....

Well, you're welcome to your opinion, but I must say most people seem to understand the connection!

Why? Do you have some OTHER definition of "Abrahamic?"

(If so, perhaps the misquote of Douglias Adams applies: "Oh, I see. This is some NEW definition of "Abrahamic" with which I was previously unfamiliar!)

Oh--and not to be overly pedantic, but for the record "criterion" is the singular, and "criteria" is the plural.


Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

[to a third party] Would you say that the majority of Jews are direct descendants of Abraham?

Probably not to the extent that those of other backgrounds have joined, but of those related to the original traditional Jewish culture a millenium or more ago, it's entirely possible!: What people fail to realize is that if you take any random person from several thousand years ago, it's quite likely that he or she has MILLIONS of descendants today purely due to all the widespread interbreeding! (This is why it's been said that everyone on earth is at least a 20th cousin <or whatever the number is> of everyone else!)

Peace,

Bruce

 

[fallingblood]

Probably not to the extent that those of other backgrounds have joined, but of those related to the original traditional Jewish culture a millenium or more ago, it's entirely possible!: What people fail to realize is that if you take any random person from several thousand years ago, it's quite likely that he or she has MILLIONS of descendants today purely due to all the widespread interbreeding! (This is why it's been said that everyone on earth is at least a 20th cousin <or whatever the number is> of everyone else!)

Peace,

Bruce

The first followers, maybe. However, we know as soon as Christianity began to spread, there is no reason to assume that they would be descendants of Abraham. Muslims, there is even less reason to assume, as we have no evidence for that.

For the Christians, they spread so widely that it would be illogical to assume they are Abrahamic in descent. More so though, we have no actual evidence, outside the Bible, that shows that Abraham existed in the first place.

 

[Sufi]

The first followers, maybe. However, we know as soon as Christianity began to spread, there is no reason to assume that they would be descendants of Abraham. Muslims, there is even less reason to assume, as we have no evidence for that.

For the Christians, they spread so widely that it would be illogical to assume they are Abrahamic in descent. More so though, we have no actual evidence, outside the Bible, that shows that Abraham existed in the first place.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a direct descendant of Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) Arab Muslims are descendants racially & religiously and other Muslims are descendants religiously.

Holy Quran 3:68 Behold, the people who have the best claim to Abraham are surely those who follow him - as does this Prophet and all
who believe [in him] - and God is near unto the believers.

Holy Quran 2:130 And who, unless he be weak of mind, would want to abandon Abraham's creed, seeing that We have indeed raised him
high in this world, and that, verily, in the life to come he shall be among the righteous?

Holy Quran 2:135 AND THEY say, "Be Jews" - or, "Christians" - "and you shall be on the right path." Say: "Nay, but [ours is] the creed of​

Abraham, who turned away from all that is false,110 and was not of those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God."

110 The expression hanif is derived from the verb hanafa, which literally means "he inclined
[towards a right state or tendency]" (cf. Lane II, 658). Already in pre-Islamic times,
this term had a definitely monotheistic connotation, and was used to describe a man who
turned away from sin and worldliness and from all dubious beliefs, especially idol-worship;
and tahannuf denoted the ardent devotions, mainly consisting of long vigils and prayers,
of the unitarian God-seekers of pre-Islamic times. Many instances of this use of the terms
hanif and tahannuf occur in the verses of pre-Islamic poets, e.g., Umayyah ibn Abi's -​

Salt and Juan al-'Awd (cf. Lisan al-'Arab, art. hanafa).

 

[fallingblood]

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a direct descendant of Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) Arab Muslims are descendants racially & religiously and other Muslims are descendants religiously.

It's alright if you believe that. However, there is no credible evidence that Muhammad was a direct descendant of Abraham. It is a matter of faith, not evidence.

 

[xkatz]

Why? Do you have some OTHER definition of "Abrahamic?"

Well, the criteria for a religion to be Abrahamic IMO is that Abraham must be recognized as a prophet, and they must believe in G-d. That's the simplest way to put it.

 

[kiwimac]

Yet one cannot help but wonder why you would want to add a negative tone to a seemingly positive thread.

Because focusing solely on the positive gives both a false impression and false information. All religions have people who are on the extreme ends of the bell curve, to ignore them is to misunderstand the faith concerned.