Judaism's connection with Astronomy/logy?

[Nefelie]

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Hello everyone!

I have a question about Judaism, and I’d love your answers:

Some parts in the OT are considered to be connected with Astronomy/logy.

Is that true? Does Judaism accept this connection?

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[dantech]

Judaism doesn't accept the OT. We accept the Tanakh.

In regards to astronomy, i guess it really depends on who you ask.

 

[Nefelie]

Judaism doesn't accept the OT. We accept the Tanakh.

That’s the Jewish cannon, right?
Which books of the Tanakh have been included to the OT?

In regards to astronomy, i guess it really depends on who you ask.

What do you mean? Isn’t there something like a “common teaching”?

Like, for example, the official opinion in Christianity is that there is no connection. There are of course people who think otherwise (I’m one of them ) but they are considered “heretics” (even if they are not Christians ).

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[jeager106]

When it comes to Bible understanding for my personal views I look at that Book as
a guide for human interaction with other humans.
I tend to "trust' the N.T. and Jesus's teachings.
"Love one another..........................."

Unless someone is shooting at me then all rules obey survival.

 

[Akivah]

That’s the Jewish cannon, right?
Which books of the Tanakh have been included to the OT?

Here is a comparison chart.
http://catholic-resources.org/Bible/Heb-Xn-Bibles.htm

What do you mean? Isn’t there something like a “common teaching”?

We don't put much stock in astrology.

According to the rabbi at aish.com

although Judaism believes in astrological influences, we are commanded not to inquire of them. In any event they are not very accurate – especially when it comes to the Jewish people. Rather we are told to trust in G-d that He will give us what is best for us in life.Although horoscopes and fortune-tellers today are very unlikely to have any validity to them, just in case, one should not inquire of them, even just for fun.

 

[Tarheeler]

When it comes to Bible understanding for my personal views I look at that Book as
a guide for human interaction with other humans.
I tend to "trust' the N.T. and Jesus's teachings.
"Love one another..........................."

Unless someone is shooting at me then all rules obey survival.

This is the Judaism DIR.

 

[jeager106]

This is the Judaism DIR.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Sorry.

 

[Nefelie]

We don't put much stock in astrology

I'm more interested in Astronomy.

Astronomy and Astrology where one and the same until about 100-200 years ago, but I’m not interested in the fortune telling part of this science. My interest in Astrology is only around Esoteric Astrology, which has absolutely nothing to do with fortune telling.

I think there is a strong connection of Astronomy and Judaism. Like for example the 12 tribes with the 12 constellations of the zodiac (again: in the astronomical sense) like Tarheeler's profile photo .
I also think that the astronomical connection is used for teaching astronomy and esoteric astrology.

Are my thoughts correct?

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[Nefelie]

Here is a comparison chart.
http://catholic-resources.org/Bible/Heb-Xn-Bibles.htm

Thanks for that, it's really helpful!

 

[Tumah]

I'm more interested in Astronomy.

Astronomy and Astrology where one and the same until about 100-200 years ago, but I’m not interested in the fortune telling part of this science. My interest in Astrology is only around Esoteric Astrology, which has absolutely nothing to do with fortune telling.

I think there is a strong connection of Astronomy and Judaism. Like for example the 12 tribes with the 12 constellations of the zodiac (again: in the astronomical sense) like Tarheeler's profile photo .
I also think that the astronomical connection is used for teaching astronomy and esoteric astrology.

Are my thoughts correct?

~~~

There are books that mention some connections between the tribes and the months.

 

[Nefelie]

There are books that mention some connections between the tribes and the months.

Yes. And also that connect the 12 tribes with the 12 constellations. But, I have found two different references:

Reuben = Aquarius or Cancer

Simeon and Levi = Pisces or Leo

Judah = Leo or Aries

Zebulun = Capricorn and Gemini

Isaachar = Cancer or Taurus

Dan = Scorpio or Capricorn

Gad = Aries or Virgo

Asher = Libra or Aquarius

Naphtali and Ephraim = Virgo or Pisces

Joseph = Taurus

Benjamin = Gemini or Sagittarius

Manasseh = Sagittarius or Gemini or Scorpio

Is any of these correct?

As for synagogues with the zodiac, besides the most famous one of Beth Alfa, similar scenes are found in mosaics of synagogues of Hamath Tiber (on the shores of Galilee), the Sepphoris (north of Nazareth 5th-7th century), the synagogue on Mount Carmel and another west of the Dead Sea.

http://www.jewish-heritage-europe.eu/galleries/zodiac-signs-four-symbolic-animals-in-synagogue-art

What bothers me is that all the above are dated AD. Why is that? Are there no references BC? Can someone help please?

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[Jayhawker Soule]

Astronomy and Astrology where one and the same until about 100-200 years ago, but ...

You might find Astronomy: History interesting.

Astronomy and Astrology where one and the same until about 100-200 years ago, but I’m not interested in the fortune telling part of this science. My interest in Astrology is only around Esoteric Astrology, which has absolutely nothing to do with fortune telling.

As for Astrology, we are a pattern-matching species and incalculable hours have been spent creatively connecting the dots, but astrology is pretty extraneous to Judaism.

 

[Tumah]

Yes. And also that connect the 12 tribes with the 12 constellations. But, I have found two different references:

Reuben = Aquarius or Cancer

Simeon and Levi = Pisces or Leo

Judah = Leo or Aries

Zebulun = Capricorn and Gemini

Isaachar = Cancer or Taurus

Dan = Scorpio or Capricorn

Gad = Aries or Virgo

Asher = Libra or Aquarius

Naphtali and Ephraim = Virgo or Pisces

Joseph = Taurus

Benjamin = Gemini or Sagittarius

Manasseh = Sagittarius or Gemini or Scorpio

Is any of these correct?

There are two possible ways to connect them, either through the order Jacob blessed them, or the order of their encampment in the desert. I didn't check all of them, but at least three of them are correct according to the second method.

As for synagogues with the zodiac, besides the most famous one of Beth Alfa, similar scenes are found in mosaics of synagogues of Hamath Tiber (on the shores of Galilee), the Sepphoris (north of Nazareth 5th-7th century), the synagogue on Mount Carmel and another west of the Dead Sea.

http://www.jewish-heritage-europe.eu/galleries/zodiac-signs-four-symbolic-animals-in-synagogue-art

What bothers me is that all the above are dated AD. Why is that? Are there no references BC? Can someone help please?

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There is not very much Jewish literature after the Tanach until the Mishnah ~200 CE.

 

[Tumah]

but astrology is pretty extraneous to Judaism.

You may not be aware of tractate Sabbath 156a, for one.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You may not be aware of tractate Sabbath 156a, for one.

How have you applied 156a in your religious observance? Do you know (not "can you determine") the day of your birth?

 

[Tumah]

How have you applied 156a in your religious observance? Do you know (not "can you determine") the day of your birth?

I was born on a Friday. But if I recall, according to Rashi, you need to calculate it based on the hour, not the day. Its just giving you the first planet that is the first of each day. Today the customs that relate to astrology that I can think of, mostly related to avoiding things related to Mars, like not making kiddush on Friday night during the hour that Mars is dominant.
But I guess I see it, that if there is material to study, then it is not extraneous but integral, no less than the laws of an ox that gores.

 

[Nefelie]

There are two possible ways to connect them, either through the order Jacob blessed them, or the order of their encampment in the desert. I didn't check all of them, but at least three of them are correct according to the second method.

Thank you for the insight

There is not very much Jewish literature after the Tanach until the Mishnah ~200 CE.

OK, but I’m talking about the mosaics in the synagogues.

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You may not be aware of tractate Sabbath 156a, for one.

How have you applied 156a in your religious observance? Do you know (not "can you determine") the day of your birth?

What’s that, people?

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I was born on a Friday. But if I recall, according to Rashi, you need to calculate it based on the hour, not the day. Its just giving you the first planet that is the first of each day. Today the customs that relate to astrology that I can think of, mostly related to avoiding things related to Mars, like not making kiddush on Friday night during the hour that Mars is dominant.

But I guess I see it, that if there is material to study, then it is not extraneous but integral, no less than the laws of an ox that gores.

These are interesting information! Please elaborate?

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[Jayhawker Soule]

How have you applied 156a in your religious observance? Do you know (not "can you determine") the day of your birth?

What’s that, people?

See Wikipedia: Talmud Structure. The reference is to page 156a of tractate Shabbat of Order Moed.

 

[Tumah]

OK, but I’m talking about the mosaics in the synagogues.

There is no requirement to make pictures in the synagogue. So its probably just a matter of when it came into style.

 

[Nefelie]

See Wikipedia: Talmud Structure. The reference is to page 156a of tractate Shabbat of Order Moed.

Thank you!

There is no requirement to make pictures in the synagogue. So its probably just a matter of when it came into style.

Isn’t it interesting that the zodiac with the sun in the middle it “came into style” for the synagogues around the same period that Christianity sprang…?

Is it possible there is a connection there?

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