SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Maybe one day Trump will know when to shut his mouth and we won't have to "obsess" over gag orders.
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Jury finally hears BOMBSHELL evidence against Trump
- Thread starter McBell
- Start date
McBell
Unbound
Not until he ends up with another 93 million dollar kick in the backside...
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I dont even know of any reportable real evidence presented so far against Trump. All the media always is whining about is Trump and the gag order.
People are saying this is just a tactic by Democrats designed for election interference to prevent and keepTrump from campaigning for the presidency.
McBell
Unbound
try looking at the news websites
Tracking the criminal and civil cases against Donald Trump
In addition to four criminal indictments, Donald Trump is also fighting a civil lawsuit that threatens the future of the real estate empire that vaulted him to stardom and the presidency.
apnews.com
Trump trial highlights: Longtime Trump Org. employees testify against their boss in hush money trial
Live updates and the latest news coverage on Trump’s hush money case as the trial enters Day 12.
www.nbcnews.com
Judge again holds Trump in contempt, threatens jail time
Follow the latest developments in former President Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial in New York.
And then of course you try watching the video in the OP of this very thread.The damning phone call is listened to in that video.
That has been a consistent MAGA Mantra for quite some time now
Yup. And if you're dealing with a "god" in some people's pantheon, not at all unlikely.
Listen to MAGAs being interviewed on the subject of Trump, Christian Nationalism and so forth. You will gradually lose much of your faith in "ordinary Americans." Or else confirm that cognitive dissonance is actually the norm.
Are you really struggling not to see what's there? The evidence is very real, and you can see it if you want to. But I don't think I can be bothered rounding it up for you.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Of course because you don't even know anything yourself.
Do you know that for a fact? Because you are making an accusation. I can indeed find the evidence, in writing (and the handwriting of Alan Weisselberg himself) of "grossing up" the reimbursement to Cohen for the payment to Stormy Daniel's, to make it look like a "legal fee" which must be taxable income, in order to make Cohen "whole." I followed the evidence in court of the approval procedures and levels (who had to sign, for what amounts and types of expenditure) in the Trump organization.
Now, are you still willing to make that statement, that I "don't even know anything" myself? If I'm to be called a LIAR, I'd like to be sure that I'm guilty of it.
McBell
Unbound
"people with their heads in the sand tend to think everyone has their head in the sand"
~~ someone else
That’s what the witnesses are for. They are Trump’s old business partners and they are verifying the indictments.
There are numerous reports coming out of the trial during the days they are in session.
McBell
Unbound
I even linked to some of the live update websites. Post#26
Of course, that post has been completely ignored....
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
And yet he's getting his headlines and all that free camera time. He even milks his own troubles for every penny he can get -- he always has.
Copernicus
Industrial Strength Linguist
See:
Debunking misinformation about Stormy Daniels amid Trump hush money trial | Fact check
Trump falsely presents Stormy Daniels letter as new in Truth Social post | Fact check
All of these claims are old news and have already been debunked, but Trump's True Believers take whatever he says at face value.
McBell
Unbound
You do know that Stormy Daniels is not her real name, right?
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Copernicus
Industrial Strength Linguist
That's a good question, but the answer starts with taking both sides of the story seriously and then examining the evidence they present objectively, regardless of which side you want to be true. Either Trump had an affair with Stormy Daniels and other women or not. We already know that the man had affairs with women during his previous marriages, so there's that to take into account. He was not exactly a devoted husband, and there are eyewitness accounts and photographs to prove he was with them during the time they report the affairs to have taken place. At what point does reasonable doubt disappear for you?
Stormy Daniels initially denied the affair, but she is a former porn star. What did she have to gain by denying it? Well, hush money could be the reason. What did she have to gain from affirming it later on? After the election, she certainly had an incentive to affirm the affair, but she had also had the same incentive before the election. And then there are corroborating witnesses like Michael Cohen and others who filled in the details of how checks ended up in his hands signed by Donald Trump that matched his hush money payments to her. Cohen himself had been caught and forced to confess because of evidence that the state had against him. He went to jail, after being convicted with Donald Trump as his unindicted co-conspirator, so a jury certainly found that the crime had happened. Nobody disputes that Cohen committed the crimes he is charged with, but is it credible that Cohen paid Stormy Daniels and others hush money out of the goodness of his heart, as Trump's lawyers claim? I could go on, but you aren't going to hear all of the facts from news sources like Fox News, which are not likely to report both sides of the story fairly. When I visit the Fox News web site, I have to do some searching even to find the location where they mention the story of what is happening in his criminal trial, and then they omit a great many details that would be embarrassing to Trump. I haven't really bothered with some of the more extreme rightwing propaganda outlets.
Now, let's consider the possibility that Trump never had affairs with any of the women accusing him. The criminal trial is about the falsification of business records, not whether he actually had the affairs. And the charges are felonies, because the alleged reason for the coverup was to hide another crime--unlawfully interfering with an election. So Trump is now facing multiple felony counts, even if the alleged affairs never even took place!
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Copernicus
Industrial Strength Linguist
Yes. If the preponderance of evidence from the man himself and those who knew him corroborates the accusation, then it becomes unreasonable to doubt the accusation. Add to that the fact that a jury has unanimously convicted him of being liable for sexual abuse of E Jean Carroll in a NY department store dressing room, based on evidence presented at the civil trial. Trump has admitted some of his past affairs, and then there was that Access Hollywood recording. Innuendo is nothing more than uncorroborated rumors. That is the sole basis for taking the accusation as credible. Trump's affairs are not uncorroborated.
See, for example:
But you simply ignored my point that the current criminal trial is not about whether he had an affair. It is about the falsification of business records in an effort to unlawfully influence an election. Whether or not the affairs took place is not the real issue in the criminal trial.
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Ebionite
Well-Known Member
When I have complete knowledge. Given his personality and the number of women in his life it's reasonable to think that he had affairs while he was married. On the other hand, given the level of political animus against him it's reasonable to think that he has been falsely accused in some cases.
You're assuming that it happened.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
You don't make a point by stating the obvious, and there's no reason to believe that there's a connection between the payment made to Cohen and election influence.