Just 43% of Americans Identify as Protestant

[halbhh]

Repainting the contents of the Old Testament such as?

Why did you bring up the about God being a murderer if this life is the final life we have when you haven’t established that this life is the final life we have?

I think you are trying to ask about whether this is the only life we have.

If God exists, then this isn't the only life we have.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why is God allowing his faith to bleed to death? Why doesn't God intervene in some miraculous way to stop the hemorrhaging of Christians away from Jesus?

Simple, heaven is becoming too crowded, it is turning into a veritable slum. God does not have any further space to expand the living quarters. And all believers in Jesus are entitled to claim their place with no further conditions. The promise was unsustainable.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

You really have been here long enough to know that Satanists do not worship Satan just as Christians do not worship crucifixion.

There's not just one type of Satanist. Some are theistic, some aren't, some keep Satan as an ideologue, some a being regarded in worship. Some many beings regarded in worship.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There's not just one type of Satanist. Some are theistic, some aren't, some keep Satan as an ideologue, some a being regarded in worship. Some many beings regarded in worship.

That is true. But most are by the non-theistic bent by a large margin.

I am not going to describe Satanists by the few actual Satan worshippers just as I will not describe all Christians as belonging to the Westboro Baptist Church, heck I won't even slander Baptists that way.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

How does no irrefutable evidence for the world to see have any bearing on whether or not there is a God who wants us to rely on faith in that God as opposed to relying on established evidence for the world to see?

If the belief was that God didn’t want us to rely on faith but on evidence for the world to see and no such evidence is presented fir the world to see, then your point of lacking such evidence would have merit. However, that is NOT what is believed by many who follow the Abrahamic based religions.

Where us the proof that the earliest Greek versions of the Gospels were never derived from any earlier Aramaic or Hebrew versions? Even Scholars do not know for a fact who originally wrote any of the Gospels, so how do you know none of the authors ever met Jesus? How would just the point that the earliest known versions of the Gospels were written in Greek prove that the earliest versions were only written in Greek?

After all, if all the Gospels were only intended for Greek speaking peoples, why does the Gospel if Matthew tried to go over how Jesus fulfilled Old Testament prophesy such as the lineage of Mary’s husband Joseph, Jesus being born in the city of David, or Jesus’s final entry into Jerusalem riding upon a donkey? Matthew deals with showing to the Jews of that day the role of Jesus fulfilling some Old Testament prophecies.

Where is your proof that God does not reveal truths to prophets in modern times?

It's not my job to prove Jesus didn't exist, it's your job to prove he did. You are the one making the claims I have to refute. The burden falls on your shoulders. I already told you: there's no proof Jesus lived. If there's no proof, doesn't mean he didn't live, just that we have no way of knowing so it's a faith issue. For me the fact there's no evidence is reason enough not to believe in him. For you it's enough to just have faith he did live even if you can't prove it.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's not my job to prove Jesus didn't exist, it's your job to prove he did. You are the one making the claims I have to refute. The burden falls on your shoulders. I already told you: there's no proof Jesus lived. If there's no proof, doesn't mean he didn't live, just that we have no way of knowing so it's a faith issue. For me the fact there's no evidence is reason enough not to believe in him. For you it's enough to just have faith he did live even if you can't prove it.

The historicity of Jesus relates to whether Jesus of Nazareth was a historical figure. Nearly all historians accept that Jesus existed, and standard historical criteria have aided in reconstructing his life.

Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia

So the salient question is not whether Jesus existed or not, it is whether Jesus was the Son of God, a Messenger of God, the Messiah, etc.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

That is true. But most are by the non-theistic bent by a large margin.

I am not going to describe Satanists by the few actual Satan worshippers just as I will not describe all Christians as belonging to the Westboro Baptist Church, heck I won't even slander Baptists that way.

LaVeyans would like you to believe they're the largest and theistic Satanists are a tiny minority but they don't *actually* have any data to back that up. And here on RF the theistic Satanists heavily outnumbered the nontheistics during the LH heyday.

 

[Subduction Zone]

LaVeyans would like you to believe they're the largest and theistic Satanists are a tiny minority but they don't *actually* have any data to back that up. And here on RF the theistic Satanists heavily outnumbered the nontheistics during the LH heyday.

Perhaps, but I do not see any theistic Satanists today. I don't know how to measure the numbers myself for sure, but the non-theistic Satanist claim does seem much more reasonable to me. Granted, not much to base an argument upon.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Perhaps, but I do not see any theistic Satanists today. I don't know how to measure the numbers myself for sure, but the non-theistic Satanist claim does seem much more reasonable to me. Granted, not much to base an argument upon.

Reasonable claims or not, my only point is that it's a myth that all or even most Satanists are nontheist. Part of the propaganda of the Satanic Temple really, which has gone out of its way to try and redefine what 'Satanism really is' despite being comparatively young. Rather like a more aggressive Wicca.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

The historicity of Jesus relates to whether Jesus of Nazareth was a historical figure. Nearly all historians accept that Jesus existed, and standard historical criteria have aided in reconstructing his life.

Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia

So the salient question is not whether Jesus existed or not, it is whether Jesus was the Son of God, a Messenger of God, the Messiah, etc.

Ummm....somewhat. There is also the possibility someone fitting a later description of Jesus lived and that the character in the gospels was modeled after this person and then fitted with all the god-qualities. Reza Aslan has put forth a good case in Zealot that Jesus was a seditionist who was crucified by Rome. The legends grew from there.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ummm....somewhat. There is also the possibility someone fitting a later description of Jesus lived and that the character in the gospels was modeled after this person and then fitted with all the god-qualities. Reza Aslan has put forth a good case in Zealot that Jesus was a seditionist who was crucified by Rome. The legends grew from there.

I never said that I believe that the character in the gospels represents the real Jesus, but I believe everything that Baha'u'llah wrote about Jesus is true because I believe Baha'u'llah knew more than any man, since like Jesus, He was more than a man; He was a Manifestation of God who received His knowledge from God. Had Jesus ever written anything in His Own Pen, and it could be verified to be from Him, I would believe that just as much as I believe what Baha'u'llah wrote.

 

[Deeje]

So you don't believe in eternal torment in fire--you believe in annihilation?

The concept of hell is not from the Bible. Many people refer to Jesus talking about "gehenna" but this is not hell. Hades is not "hell" either. Bible translators have confused the meaning of these words by incorporating pagan ideas of punishment for the wicked.

The Hebrew word "sheol" simply meant the grave. Its Greek equivalent is "hades"which must also mean just the grave where the dead "Rest in Peace".

When Jesus spoke of "gehenna" he said...."And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."

You can see from this that "gehenna" is a place where body and soul are "destroyed", not tormented. There is no suffering in "gehenna".

Gehenna was originally the Valley of Hinnom outside the walls of Jerusalem where the apostate Israelites were worshipping the Ammonite god Molech by sacrificing their children in the fire. God stopped the practice and turned the valley into Jerusalem's garbage dump. Fires were kept burning day and night by the addition of brimstone (sulfur) to consume the refuse. The carcasses of dead animals and the bodies of executed criminals were often thrown into the fire for disposal. What the flames missed the maggots finished off.

Anyone thrown into gehenna was considered not worthy of a decent burial and therefore not worthy of a resurrection. It was a symbol of everlasting death, which is the opposite of everlasting life.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

At one time, the Catholic Church was the only show in all Christianity. What this meant was not only did the Church contain good Christians, but it also contained closet atheists and heathens, since you had to belong or be persecuted. This was no different than one nation conquering another and the defeated army being force to assimilate, but resenting it

This led to atheist and heathen influences in high places since they were part of the whole. These types had more options of evil in politics; relative morality, allowing the smart con artist to take advantage of the hand that was dealt. This is why things like the Spanish Inquisition appear; non Christians forced to serve, learn to play the game, rise to power, hoping to change it from within. If you are force to be there, this is is what can happen.

The Age of Enlightenment and the Protestant movement allowed the Catholic Church to shed many of its undesirables. The atheist and the Protestants leaders went their own way. The atheists and heathens member of the Church, then followed to find easier opportunities. For example, The King of England separated from the Catholic Church, so he could add divorce, which is not Christian. He was never with the program. Rather he used his power, in the power structure, for his own personal gain. It was good that he left. The Catholic Church became more pure by shedding the trouble makers. After the middle age exodus, the Catholic Church was no where the power house it was. This was closer to the real Christianity.

If you read only the words of Jesus, Christianity is very specific and does not include all socially acceptable behavior you find in heathen and atheist cultures. If you get rid of these people, by giving them an alternative, what is left is cleaner. This is God's plan. It is not about numbers, but higher purity.

The current exodus, over the past few decades is similar in that it is purifying the remaining members even more, allowing the dead wood and moral rot, an excuse to leave and find organization that are more conducive to its hedonism. If these options did not exist, they would remain and contaminate from the inside' child molesters. This is the next layer in the closet; on deck.

All the orientations that were placed in the closet, by the Church, now have an outlet via Liberalism. Liberalism is a blessing in disguise in that is appeals to the anti-Christian. This further cleans the Church so Christianity can become pure again.

Liberalism is changing tactic and is trying to undermine the even increasing purity of the Church, by forcing its members to pander to the heathens, via unconstitutional laws. The purity bothers them, since it makes them look like the heathen that they are, by the ever increasing contrast.

Following that reckoning and the fact that all men are sinners, the church will get smaller and smaller till it disappears up its own orifice.

Sin free men do not need the church, it was established for the saving of the sinners.
It has failed in that task. The church is a bursting and led by these unrepentant sinners.
No wonder the honest caring members are leaving in droves. To create a more civilized liberal society.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Reasonable claims or not, my only point is that it's a myth that all or even most Satanists are nontheist. Part of the propaganda of the Satanic Temple really, which has gone out of its way to try and redefine what 'Satanism really is' despite being comparatively young. Rather like a more aggressive Wicca.

How is it a myth if true? Now you appear to be making a claim that puts the burden of proof on you. How do you know that there are more theistic than non-theistic Satanists?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The hundred-million dollar question is why any rational person would believe that a Holy Book that old still pertains to humans that are living on earth today, especially given several new Holy Books have been revealed since that time.

Comments like this get me to think you’ve never read it....
Philippians 2:3-4; Colossians 3:12-15; Ephesians 4 2,3,29,31,32; Proverbs 13 3,10,20; Proverbs 18 13,17; Proverbs 23:20-21; 1 Timothy 6:9-10
....and on & on & on.

Now, I don’t like the Old English versions, I wish RF would change the KJV to another...it’s hard to grasp what it’s saying at times...
but the Bible is loaded with practical wisdom.

 

[danieldemol]

I don’t know if you’ve reviewed this paper by Pew Research.

https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-c...LL-REPORT-WITH-APPENDIXES-A-AND-B-APRIL-3.pdf

I have, it admits that growth in number of Muslims is due to birth rates, and it is old dated at 2017, by comparison the 2018 and 2020 studies undertaken in the Arab countries and Iran show marked decline in the numbers firmly bound to Islam.

For more information follow the links in the following article;
Middle East: Are people losing their religion? | DW | 04.02.2021

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Big difference between then and now is that people are much more educated now then they were.

You mean,“....than they were.”

(Since we’re talking about education.)

 

[Hockeycowboy]

....we can question the "righteousness" of your god and determine, by the words of the Bible, he is more sadistic, twisted, and cruel than Hitler.

Yeah, it’s just despicable, God wanting us to ‘love our neighbors as ourselves,’ (Mark 12:31) and ‘becoming kind to one another, tenderly compassionate, freely forgiving.’ - Colossians 3:12-14
Absolutely horrid.

(You have posted in the past about the issues with your parents while growing up, I’m sorry that they didn’t follow these guidelines. It’s not God’s fault.)

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Yeah, it’s just despicable, God wanting us to ‘love our neighbors as ourselves,’ (Mark 12:31) and ‘becoming kind to one another, tenderly compassionate, freely forgiving.’ - Colossians 3:12-14
Absolutely horrid.

(You have posted in the past about the issues with your parents while growing up, I’m sorry that they didn’t follow these guidelines. It’s not God’s fault.)

God could have made Us all inherently ....
Honest
Truthful
compassionate.
peaceful
loving
helpful
conscientious

But he did not... There is little reason to believe that he even knows that we exist. We are such a miniscule and fleeting part of his creation.

 

[Colt]

Human things must be known in order to be loved but divine things must be loved in order to be known.