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Just Accidental?

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It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think you missed the point....as you seem to do often. "Turning the other cheek" is not talking about a violent act requiring self defense. The illustration has to do with a slap in the face, which is intended as an insult, not like a punch. Turning the other cheek means that you are not demeaned in the slightest by intended insults. It means you are bigger than that, as the rest of Jesus' advice goes on to illustrate.

I think you missed the point. The point is to stand down. The entire Bible is about submission - man to God, subjects to kings, slaves to slave masters, wives to husbands. You are to tolerate any abuse or exploitation gladly. Besides turning the other cheek, be meek, be glad for poverty, and suffer injustice silently for a promised reward after death, a promise that doesn't have to be kept. Do you see a pattern there? Who do you suppose benefits from that

A humble person cannot be humiliated. Humiliation comes from pride....a trait God hates.

Humble? We were discussing meekness. Meek is not humble. Meekness isn't like other deferential behaviors. Sure, be humble rather than arrogant, polite rather than rude, circumspect rather than rash, cooperative rather than selfish, etc..

But meek? Meekness is timidity of spirit. Where is the virtue there? One may be bold and intrepid while humble, but not if meek. Be assertive where appropriate. Being meek is being submissive and easily imposed upon. The meek are used by others because they don't stand up for themselves. They're fearful and weak in spirit. They just get whacked in the cheek again. If you saw Office Space, Milton, the fat guy with the stapler whose desk kept being moved into bleaker places and who was terminated without even being told, was meek, not humble.

I realize that you were taught that all of this is good and beautiful, and have always seen it that way. But that's because you're looking through a faith based confirmation bias that only lets you see it that way. Without that, one gets a very different picture of is being said and what it means. I don't have to clean it up. I can let turn the other cheek mean exactly that, and meek to mean exactly that. You want to change them to not feeling insulted and being humble.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
'It ain't necessarily so'......you 'believe' in evolution but you have never seen one kind of creature morph into another kind in your life. You can't demonstrate or even test evolution, so what does that mean?

I believe many things, but don't believe in anything. I believe that the theory of evolution is correct, and it is an amply justified belief. It is not based on what is not observable, but on what is.

No, I am not under any obligation to observe a Sabbath. It was a Jewish law never said to be incumbent on Gentile Christians. Jesus observed the Sabbath because he was Jewish. He observed the Passover too, but Christians who are not Jewish were never told they had to observe either of them.

Genesis 20:8 says, "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy."

According to Jesus in Matthew 5:18, "For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished."

That's pretty clear to me.

You think science is not based on where the money leads also? The whole world is driven by mammon. Who funds universities and medical schools? Who indoctrinates students to "believe" in something that cannot be tested or demonstrated? You follow the money and it it will always lead to corruption.

Science is a pure pursuit. Business and politics are not.

My education included no indoctrination except that Pledge we were asked to recite every day. What goes on in secular schools is not the same thing as what happens in Sunday School. Indoctrination doesn't present evidence and argument, let the individual evaluate it and make a decision for himself like my teachers did.

Nobody ever told me what I must believe, or scolded me for not accepting any dogma. I could have passed with flying colors just as long as I learned what was being presented and could demonstrate that I had done so whether I believed it or not.

Nor did anybody ask me if I believed it.

Indoctrination is telling somebody what to believe. He is to accept it uncritically. That is what creationism is and what creationists do, for example. They are simply told that God created the kinds, no evidence or argument is presented, and they are chastised for not believing it or asking too many questions. That's a completely unrelated method of instruction.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
We don't know how long ago God created the universe...he simply doesn't tell us. Nor does he tell us how long the creative "days" were. We know that they were not 24 hours long....only that they had a beginning and an end.

Previously refuted, refutation unanswered, refuted claim made again unchanged. Link: Just Accidental?

The Bible writers were very clear that they meant a literal day for the two reasons given at the link above.
 
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viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I know a lot about my Creator....I have a personal relationship with him and I am continually awe struck at what he has made and how everything is interconnected....nothing that could ever have come about by chance.

I am sorry that you have never made his acquaintance.....perhaps he doesn't want to know those who don't want to know him?

I am sorry, but this personal relationship thing is not plausible at all.

Many Chrstians claim to have a personal relationship with God. Unfortunately, the same Christians disagree on pretty basic stuff.

Death penalty vs. no death penalty. Evolution vs. no evolution. Lake of fire vs. termination. Gay tolerance vs. gay intolerance. Trinity vs. no trinity. Rapture vs. no rapture. Adam and Eve vs. metaphors. Predestination vs. no predestination. Resurrection at death vs. resurrection at the end of time. 6000 years vs. a much older Universe. Pope vs. sola scriptura. Etc. etc.

What do Christians talk about, during those personal relationships? The weather?

Ciao

- viole
 
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Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

When did 'all things take place'?

What is "heaven", and what is "earth", in this context? Read Genesis 11:1. and see how "earth" is meant. Read Ephesians 3:10, and see if you can grasp how "heavens" is sometimes applied.

You shouldn't make fun of beliefs, when you don't understand them.
 

Thumper

Thank the gods I'm an atheist
When did 'all things take place'?

What is "heaven", and what is "earth", in this context? Read Genesis 11:1. and see how "earth" is meant. Read Ephesians 3:10, and see if you can grasp how "heavens" is sometimes applied.

You shouldn't make fun of beliefs, when you don't understand them.
The Hebrew Bible imagined a universe with the heavens (shamayim) above, earth (eres) in the middle, and the underworld (sheol) below floating in Tehom, the mythological cosmic ocean. God created the firmament to divide Tehom and reveal the dry land creating the three-part universe described in the O.T.. God also opened windows in the firmament to allow Tehom to enter and cause the great flood.

You shouldn't have beliefs when you don't understand them.
 
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ArtieE

Well-Known Member
We don't know how long ago God created the universe...he simply doesn't tell us. Nor does he tell us how long the creative "days" were. We know that they were not 24 hours long....only that they had a beginning and an end. The Creator is not a magician, but a powerful entity who can create matter.

The Genesis account is quite specific about what was created and on what "day". Humans were last on the scene. How did Moses know that? How did he know that life began in the oceans and in the skies? :shrug:
In post 2827 you say and I quote: "I know a lot about my Creator....I have a personal relationship with him". When we have personal relationships we exchange information. We communicate. So why don't you ask him from me and write the answers here. You are personally involved with a god but you never come up a single shred of useful information from this god. I suggest we write up all the important questions we would like answers to, you pose them to him and write down the answers here. What do you think?
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
In post 2827 you say and I quote: "I know a lot about my Creator....I have a personal relationship with him". When we have personal relationships we exchange information. We communicate. So why don't you ask him from me and write the answers here. You are personally involved with a god but you never come up a single shred of useful information from this god. I suggest we write up all the important questions we would like answers to, you pose them to him and write down the answers here. What do you think?

Have you tried asking him yourself?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The Hebrew Bible imagined a universe with the heavens (shamayim) above, earth (eres) in the middle, and the underworld (sheol) below floating in Tehom, the mythological cosmic ocean. God created the firmament to divide Tehom and reveal the dry land creating the three-part universe described in the O.T.. God also opened windows in the firmament to allow Tehom to enter and cause the great flood.

You shouldn't have beliefs when you don't understand them.

You should perhaps understand what Genesis is actually saying before you post what was imagined by a people who never got things right very often. :rolleyes: Their understanding of scripture and ours might be a very different thing.

Genesis mentions a divide between the waters above and the waters below the expanse. If there was a canopy of water surrounding the earth at creation, then that would explain earth's uniform climate that was once a fact since they have unearthed palm trees in Siberia. It would have created hot house conditions without the need for rain. According to Genesis, it had not rained before the flood. Dramatic climate change would have occurred if that water canopy was used to flood the earth. It would also explain man's drastically reduced lifespan from that time onward. Exposure to more radiation ages everything.

Where did all the water go? It was drawn to the magnetic poles and suspended as ice. Global warming is melting the ice shelves, so if it continues and the poles dump all that water back in the oceans, the earth will again be flooded.
I find that totally logical.....you can think whatever you like. :D
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
You should perhaps understand what Genesis is actually saying before you post what was imagined by a people who never got things right very often. :rolleyes: Their understanding of scripture and ours might be a very different thing.

Genesis mentions a divide between the waters above and the waters below the expanse. If there was a canopy of water surrounding the earth at creation, then that would explain earth's uniform climate that was once a fact since they have unearthed palm trees in Siberia. It would have created hot house conditions without the need for rain. According to Genesis, it had not rained before the flood. Dramatic climate change would have occurred if that water canopy was used to flood the earth. It would also explain man's drastically reduced lifespan from that time onward. Exposure to more radiation ages everything.

Where did all the water go? It was drawn to the magnetic poles and suspended as ice. Global warming is melting the ice shelves, so if it continues and the poles dump all that water back in the oceans, the earth will again be flooded.
I find that totally logical.....you can think whatever you like. :D

Oh yay, the "vapor canopy" thing. Boy Deeje, you sure were right.....creationists really don't have anything new.

And I imagine if I were to ask just a few key questions about this idea, you'd do as before and dodge as much as you can until you finally just walk away, correct?
 

gnostic

The Lost One
You should perhaps understand what Genesis is actually saying before you post what was imagined by a people who never got things right very often. :rolleyes: Their understanding of scripture and ours might be a very different thing.

But you don't understand that Genesis is merely a myth, not to be taken literally, historically or scientifically.

And this, your interpretation of Genesis and trying to fit and twist Genesis Creation and Flood into science, is not science:

Genesis mentions a divide between the waters above and the waters below the expanse. If there was a canopy of water surrounding the earth at creation, then that would explain earth's uniform climate that was once a fact since they have unearthed palm trees in Siberia. It would have created hot house conditions without the need for rain. According to Genesis, it had not rained before the flood. Dramatic climate change would have occurred if that water canopy was used to flood the earth. It would also explain man's drastically reduced lifespan from that time onward. Exposure to more radiation ages everything.

Where did all the water go? It was drawn to the magnetic poles and suspended as ice. Global warming is melting the ice shelves, so if it continues and the poles dump all that water back in the oceans, the earth will again be flooded.
I find that totally logical.....you can think whatever you like. :D

Have you ever calculated the years between creation of Adam to the Flood, Deeje?

According to the most modern Western translations of Genesis, which is based on the Hebrew Masoretic Text, that's 1656 years, Deeje.

1656 years! Are you telling us that there were no rain for 1656 years? Do you have a single shred of evidence, that there have been no rain in all that time?

Depending on how you interpret Exodus 12:40-41, the 430 years, it would put the time of Adam creation from anywhere between 5700 and nearly 6000 BCE, meaning that the Flood could occur between 2100 and 2340 BCE. These dates are approximate, not exact dates.

It is one thing to believe in Genesis, but it is a hold different thing when dealing with real history and real science.

And you have mentioned "ice shelves" and such.

According to you, the ice melted, caused the Flood, and then the water simply magically and miraculous turn into ice again.

Do you have evidence for this?

I don't think you do. Ice shelves just don't appear, disappear (Flood) and reappear again, like magic or miracles. In Greenland and Antarctica, those ice shelves have been there hundreds of thousands of years, for it to build up to this day and age.

If there were evidences for your magical Flood, then it should show up on the ice themselves. Your idea about the ice shelves and Noah's Flood are purely speculative, not supported by the ice.

Ice cores have been taken by many expeditions. They take samples of ice cores, and they showed what occurred annually with the atmosphere, as well as evidence of flood or not flood. The ice core showed built-up of ice over the years, centuries and millennia, and it all depends on how deep samples were taken from the ice are.

The older the ice, the deeper the sample must be. The depth of each sample can range from as short as 10 metres to over a thousand metres.

Are you getting the picture here, Deeje?

The scientists can show the age of the ice, just like they do with when taking core sample of very old to ancient trees. On the trees, it not only revealed its age, right to time when they are mere sapling, but it also reveal when there were drought, or when there are too much or too little carbons (or other gases, like nitrogen, oxygen, etc), when there were fire, etc.

You would also have to taken into account the older the ice, the deeper the ice, BUT the deeper the ice, the more pressures the ice exert on itself. It is like submarine experiencing increasing pressures, as the vessel go deeper into the ocean.

One of the deepest drilling for the ice core sample was at Dome C at the Antarctica, measuring just over 3300 metres. This ice showed that the built-up of all the layers of ice, dated to 800,000 years. But this is just the deepest sample taken. Other samples taken from different locations of the Antarctica, are not as deep as Dome C sample, but it still showed the some of the deep samples taken were certainly older than 5400 (flood), older than 6000 years (Adam).

The polar ice took hundred of millennia to build up. They don't melt instantly or re-freeze instantly.

Which bring me back to my point about Genesis being a myth, and your speculation on the Genesis being unscientific.

If your baseless speculation were true, then that all the polar ice melted, causing the water to flood the earth, and then refreeze, THEN the ice should be no older than 4300 years old (or around 2300 BCE). Ancient ice cannot be melted and then refreeze the water to ice, to show the same ancient age as before.

Sorry, Deeje, but you don't know what you are talking about, when you talk of "ice shelves" and the Genesis Flood.

And speaking of water pressures. I gave you example of submarine experiencing pressures from the water, the deeper submarine goes. As the submarine reach critical depth, the crushing pressure would cause the vessel hull to buckle, and the submarine would resemble like an empty aluminum can of soda, that you can crush with your hand.

Well, with this scenario of water pressures, what would you think happen to land plant life?

According to the Genesis, the Flood covered the entire earth, including the highest mountains. Now everyone know that Mount Everest is the tallest mountain, at over 8000 metres high. Even if the Flood covered only over Mount Ararat, that still over 5000 metres high.

A WW2 submarine would be crushed at 280 metres. Can you imagine what 5000 metres be like?

All the trees, like olive trees and cedar trees, cannot and would not survive when the Flood water disappeared, Deeje. The water pressures alone, at that depth, would kill off any tree.

I know that you didn't say anything about water pressures, but to not consider the possibilities of what would happen at such depth, would just show that how very little to understand about nature and about science.

Anyway, I find your scenario about the Flood, to be unrealistic and unscientific, based on a lot of twisting science to suit your imagination.
 
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It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Genesis mentions a divide between the waters above and the waters below the expanse. If there was a canopy of water surrounding the earth at creation, then that would explain earth's uniform climate that was once a fact since they have unearthed palm trees in Siberia. It would have created hot house conditions without the need for rain. According to Genesis, it had not rained before the flood. Dramatic climate change would have occurred if that water canopy was used to flood the earth. It would also explain man's drastically reduced lifespan from that time onward. Exposure to more radiation ages everything.

Where did all the water go? It was drawn to the magnetic poles and suspended as ice. Global warming is melting the ice shelves, so if it continues and the poles dump all that water back in the oceans, the earth will again be flooded.
I find that totally logical.....you can think whatever you like. :D[/QUOTE]

Genesis is wrong. There was no water canopy.

No rain before the flood? Where does this stuff come from and why would you believe it? Why should I?

And water is not drawn to magnetic poles.

We will think what we like.We have for a long time. It's nothing like what you think.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Oh yay, the "vapor canopy" thing. Boy Deeje, you sure were right.....creationists really don't have anything new.

And I imagine if I were to ask just a few key questions about this idea, you'd do as before and dodge as much as you can until you finally just walk away, correct?
Go ahead and ask your "few key questions", and find out.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Have you ever calculated the years between creation of Adam to the Flood, Deeje?

According to the most modern Western translations of Genesis, which is based on the Hebrew Masoretic Text, that's 1656 years, Deeje.

1656 years! Are you telling us that there were no rain for 1656 years? Do you have a single shred of evidence, that there have been no rain in all that time?

I have the Genesis account....Genesis 2:5-6:
"When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, 6 and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground"

So watering the land was done by means other than rain. Hot houses are very humid and things thrive in that warm, moist environment. I see the earth as originally being like that. Humans lived very long lives prior to the flood, but after that protective canopy was removed, humans aged rather quickly, going from hundreds of years to three score and ten....just 70 years. Noah was 500 hundred years old before he even had children.

And you have mentioned "ice shelves" and such.

According to you, the ice melted, caused the Flood, and then the water simply magically and miraculous turn into ice again.

No, that is not what I said. I said the canopy was used to flood the earth and Genesis also says that the water from underground reservoirs also contributed to the volume of water. (Genesis 7:11) The canopy was not replaced at all. The waters were drawn magnetically to the poles and snap frozen. You obviously have no understanding of what a powerful being like the Creator can do. He doesn't have to abide by your rules of science. He is the ones who makes the rules and he can do whatever he wishes with them.

I don't think you do. Ice shelves just don't appear, disappear (Flood) and reappear again, like magic or miracles.
I never said they did.

In Greenland and Antarctica, those ice shelves have been there hundreds of thousands of years, for it to build up to this day and age.

That is science's interpretation of the matter. As you know, I don't put a great deal of store in everything science wants to make guesses about. I have my doubts about a lot of their dating methods.

If there were evidences for your magical Flood, then it should show up on the ice themselves. Your idea about the ice shelves and Noah's Flood are purely speculative, not supported by the ice.

I don't worship the ice...I have a Creator who has given me an instruction manual that tells me all I need to know.

Are you getting the picture here, Deeje?

I have had the picture for most of my life, and I am very satisfied with it. I believe that my Creator knows more than men with big egos and science degrees, who can't be wrong about anything. Science thinks it knows a lot about many things....I believe it has so much more to learn and that the Creator himself will prove to be the better teacher.

Sorry, Deeje, but you don't know what you are talking about, when you talk of "ice shelves" and the Genesis Flood.

As I said, I am happy with the Bible's account, no one says you have to accept it. You are free to believe whatever you wish.

According to the Genesis, the Flood covered the entire earth, including the highest mountains. Now everyone know that Mount Everest is the tallest mountain, at over 8000 metres high. Even if the Flood covered only over Mount Ararat, that still over 5000 metres high.

How do we know what the earth was like pre-flood? That volume of water may well have changed the entire global landscape. It may well have cause vast upheavals in the earth's crust so that deep valleys and higher mountains were created to help dissipate the water. Genesis simply doesn't say.

Also, because God caused the flood, he could also preserve whatever vegetation he wished through the floodwaters. I don't need a scientific explanation for what I accept on faith. If you do, that is your prerogative.

Anyway, I find your scenario about the Flood, to be unrealistic and unscientific, based on a lot of twisting science to suit your imagination.

Do I look worried? :)

I don't see anyone with a big stick making any of you believe anything other than what you want to accept as truth.

Time will tell...won't it. :) If I am wrong, what will I lose? If you are wrong, what will you lose?

I like my odds better than yours. I am very happy with my God who has guided me all my life. I am sorry that you have never made his acquaintance.
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
I am very happy with my God who has guided me all my life.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
Richard Dawkins


To each his own. However, if I simply disappear when I die and Him and Christians are destined to spend eternity together, I consider that a fitting punishment for Him. ;)




 

Thumper

Thank the gods I'm an atheist
You should perhaps understand what Genesis is actually saying before you post what was imagined by a people who never got things right very often. :rolleyes: Their understanding of scripture and ours might be a very different thing.

Genesis mentions a divide between the waters above and the waters below the expanse. If there was a canopy of water surrounding the earth at creation, then that would explain earth's uniform climate that was once a fact since they have unearthed palm trees in Siberia. It would have created hot house conditions without the need for rain. According to Genesis, it had not rained before the flood. Dramatic climate change would have occurred if that water canopy was used to flood the earth. It would also explain man's drastically reduced lifespan from that time onward. Exposure to more radiation ages everything.

Where did all the water go? It was drawn to the magnetic poles and suspended as ice. Global warming is melting the ice shelves, so if it continues and the poles dump all that water back in the oceans, the earth will again be flooded.
I find that totally logical.....you can think whatever you like. :D
People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs.
 

Thumper

Thank the gods I'm an atheist
You should perhaps understand what Genesis is actually saying before you post what was imagined by a people who never got things right very often. :rolleyes: Their understanding of scripture and ours might be a very different thing.

Genesis mentions a divide between the waters above and the waters below the expanse. If there was a canopy of water surrounding the earth at creation, then that would explain earth's uniform climate that was once a fact since they have unearthed palm trees in Siberia. It would have created hot house conditions without the need for rain. According to Genesis, it had not rained before the flood. Dramatic climate change would have occurred if that water canopy was used to flood the earth. It would also explain man's drastically reduced lifespan from that time onward. Exposure to more radiation ages everything.

Where did all the water go? It was drawn to the magnetic poles and suspended as ice. Global warming is melting the ice shelves, so if it continues and the poles dump all that water back in the oceans, the earth will again be flooded.
I find that totally logical.....you can think whatever you like. :D
My understanding of Genesis comes from reading it in Hebrew and from college classes on ancient mythologies.

The Pentateuch was based in polytheism with a whole pantheon of gods. Yahweh Elohim literally is "lord of the gods" (plural). The Hebrew cosmology believed in a flat earth protected from the cosmic ocean by a firmament. The Sun, Moon, and all the stars were on the inner surface of this firmament El-Yahweh did not create the cosmos, just the firmament to allow for the dry land of Earth. In fact, he had to fight a Leviathan from the great deep (Tehom ) to create this firmament (Psalms).

Your mythology is just that, a mythology. Please get a real education before embarrassing yourself further.
 
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gnostic

The Lost One
I have the Genesis account....Genesis 2:5-6:
"When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, 6 and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground"

So watering the land was done by means other than rain. Hot houses are very humid and things thrive in that warm, moist environment. I see the earth as originally being like that. Humans lived very long lives prior to the flood, but after that protective canopy was removed, humans aged rather quickly, going from hundreds of years to three score and ten....just 70 years. Noah was 500 hundred years old before he even had children.



No, that is not what I said. I said the canopy was used to flood the earth and Genesis also says that the water from underground reservoirs also contributed to the volume of water. (Genesis 7:11) The canopy was not replaced at all. The waters were drawn magnetically to the poles and snap frozen. You obviously have no understanding of what a powerful being like the Creator can do. He doesn't have to abide by your rules of science. He is the ones who makes the rules and he can do whatever he wishes with them.


I never said they did.



That is science's interpretation of the matter. As you know, I don't put a great deal of store in everything science wants to make guesses about. I have my doubts about a lot of their dating methods.



I don't worship the ice...I have a Creator who has given me an instruction manual that tells me all I need to know.



I have had the picture for most of my life, and I am very satisfied with it. I believe that my Creator knows more than men with big egos and science degrees, who can't be wrong about anything. Science thinks it knows a lot about many things....I believe it has so much more to learn and that the Creator himself will prove to be the better teacher.



As I said, I am happy with the Bible's account, no one says you have to accept it. You are free to believe whatever you wish.



How do we know what the earth was like pre-flood? That volume of water may well have changed the entire global landscape. It may well have cause vast upheavals in the earth's crust so that deep valleys and higher mountains were created to help dissipate the water. Genesis simply doesn't say.

Also, because God caused the flood, he could also preserve whatever vegetation he wished through the floodwaters. I don't need a scientific explanation for what I accept on faith. If you do, that is your prerogative.



Do I look worried? :)

I don't see anyone with a big stick making any of you believe anything other than what you want to accept as truth.

Time will tell...won't it. :) If I am wrong, what will I lose? If you are wrong, what will you lose?

I like my odds better than yours. I am very happy with my God who has guided me all my life. I am sorry that you have never made his acquaintance.
All of that is truly amazing, Deeje, because I have read the same bible, none of which mention magnetic poles drawing water to snap free it.

You delude yourself to think you are prophet and know all these things that the bible didn't say.

I will bow to your hubris and leave to wallow in your delusions.
 
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