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Just Accidental?

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It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Fine. You show me, once again how utterly pointless and counterproductive it is to deal with forum users at all.
There are no good people. Only those who are out and out bad - atheists, and those whose religious aspects restrain them from being equally as bad.
You all deserve exactly what you end up with: a world you go on and on about wanting to change, while being the reason you think it needs changing.

I'm done.
'Bye.


crowfeather: "There are no good people. Only those who are out and out bad"

And you wanted to give me life lessons? You wanted to share your philosophy and approach to reality to help me make my life more authentic? With what?

Your philosophy has failed you, grasshopper. You are angry, hostile, disgruntled, have no fortitude, and are at war with the world. What do you think that you have to offer happy people?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Just watch: every time somebody mounts an attack on me, by accusing me of certain failings, if you investigate, you will unerringly discover that those accusers are, in fact, describing their own behaviors.
I have seen it. It is extremely common and I wondered if anyone else can see it.
This seems to be a law of human character. I am an unwitting catalyst in the process. I'd rather not be, but there it is.
Me too!
Buddhists speak of this mirroring effect of advanced beings, reflecting back to accusers the very behavior they accuse others of.
I understand you!
It is mysterious.
It is so weird! A certain marriage counselor I have met calls that kind of behavior a losing strategy and I agree!

Thankfully, the good outnumber the bad. But the bad make far more noise than the good. That's humans for you.
I have learned that to avoid that weird mirror phenomenon I should tread more lightly. I have to become a better person but I have fewer friends. Another wise person I met taught at the college level, "You can have too many friends", which I think is true.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
An artist designed these......

RED-Eyed-Frog.jpg


images
images
images


images
images
images


images
images
images


Living works of art.
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Yes, isn't it amazing what mutation and natural selection can do?

Only in your imagination......IMO only a fool could say that these are 'just accidents' of nature.

I think you worship the wrong parent.
worship.gif
Credit where it is due...."Mother" nature has to have a "Father" to reproduce.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Only in your imagination......IMO only a fool could say that these are 'just accidents' of nature.

I think you worship the wrong parent.
worship.gif
Credit where it is due...."Mother" nature has to have a "Father" to reproduce.

Parthenogenesis is common in nature.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Parthenogenesis is common in nature.

Common in what species? A few birds, reptiles and marine creatures?
What about the millions of other species that need male and female participation to reproduce?...including humans?

According to Wiki.....
"Parthenogenesis is seen to occur naturally in aphids, Daphnia, rotifers, nematodes and some other invertebrates, as well as in many plants. Among vertebrates, strict parthenogenesis is only known to occur in lizards, snakes,[33] birds[34] and sharks,[35] with fish, amphibians and reptiles exhibiting various forms of gynogenesis and hybridogenesis (an incomplete form of parthenogenesis).[36] The first all-female (unisexual) reproduction in vertebrates was described in the fish Poecilia formosa in 1932.[37] Since then at least 50 species of unisexual vertebrate have been described, including at least 20 fish, 25 lizards, a single snake species, frogs, and salamanders.[36] Other, usually sexual, species may occasionally reproduce parthenogenetically and Komodo dragons; the hammerhead and blacktip sharks are recent additions to the known list of spontaneous parthenogenetic vertebrates. As with all types of asexual reproduction, there are both costs (low genetic diversity and therefore susceptibility to adverse mutations that might occur) and benefits (reproduction without the need for a male) associated with parthenogenesis."

Parthenogenesis - Wikipedia

Doesn't look like much of an argument to me.
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Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Only in your imagination......IMO only a fool could say that these are 'just accidents' of nature.

And they look to me like *exactly* what would be expected from natural selection. Bright colors to warn predators of the poisonous properties. Exactly the type of thing to be selected for.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Common in what species? A few birds, reptiles and marine creatures?
What about the millions of other species that need male and female participation to reproduce?...including humans?

According to Wiki.....
"Parthenogenesis is seen to occur naturally in aphids, Daphnia, rotifers, nematodes and some other invertebrates, as well as in many plants. Among vertebrates, strict parthenogenesis is only known to occur in lizards, snakes,[33] birds[34] and sharks,[35] with fish, amphibians and reptiles exhibiting various forms of gynogenesis and hybridogenesis (an incomplete form of parthenogenesis).[36] The first all-female (unisexual) reproduction in vertebrates was described in the fish Poecilia formosa in 1932.[37] Since then at least 50 species of unisexual vertebrate have been described, including at least 20 fish, 25 lizards, a single snake species, frogs, and salamanders.[36] Other, usually sexual, species may occasionally reproduce parthenogenetically and Komodo dragons; the hammerhead and blacktip sharks are recent additions to the known list of spontaneous parthenogenetic vertebrates. As with all types of asexual reproduction, there are both costs (low genetic diversity and therefore susceptibility to adverse mutations that might occur) and benefits (reproduction without the need for a male) associated with parthenogenesis."

Parthenogenesis - Wikipedia

Doesn't look like much of an argument to me.
297.gif

'Twas a joke. But then, so is the claim that is was from a 'Father'.
 

Olinda

Member
Only in your imagination......IMO only a fool could say that these are 'just accidents' of nature.
No-one said they are accidents. You have been told many, many times that natural selection is not an accidental process.
I think you worship the wrong parent.
worship.gif
Credit where it is due...."Mother" nature has to have a "Father" to reproduce.
Attempted argument by analogy? In any case, good parents don't require worship.

So in total, your whole argument against evolution is pretty pics, incredulity and an asserted conspiracy? Bit flimsy!
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
No-one said they are accidents. You have been told many, many times that natural selection is not an accidental process.

Really? Nature is just "naturally programmed" to select the best for itself....a bit like us going into a store and selecting the things we want in clothing and food and footwear.....but its a conscious choice based by an intelligent mind with an outcome envisaged.

Attempted argument by analogy? In any case, good parents don't require worship.

That is true.....the wrong kind of worship can set a person up for bad parenting. Ancient peoples sacrificed their children to their gods, so I agree with you. But the right kind of worship can be very advantageous, imparting good principles and having a Higher Authority to account to at the end of the day, means that no injustice goes unpunished.

So in total, your whole argument against evolution is pretty pics, incredulity and an asserted conspiracy? Bit flimsy!
You are absolutely entitled to think so. Makes no difference to me. Let the music play on......
connie_24.gif


I believe all will be revealed soon enough, and then we will all see whose argument is flimsy.

If we are wrong, what have we lost? An unfulfilled expectation.......if you are wrong, what have you got to lose?
306.gif

Food for thought.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
And they look to me like *exactly* what would be expected from natural selection. Bright colors to warn predators of the poisonous properties. Exactly the type of thing to be selected for.

They look like beautifully designed creatures to me....hand crafted works of art.
Natural selection has a flare for color and design?....how clever of something that has no intelligent direction.

'Twas a joke. But then, so is the claim that is was from a 'Father'.

If you say so......wait till you meet him......
128fs318181.gif
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
If we are wrong, what have we lost?
You will have wasted a hell of a lot of your time and life devoted to and perpetuating a falsehood.

An unfulfilled expectation.......if you are wrong, what have you got to lose?
Nothing, since we only go where the evidence goes.

Food for thought.
You honestly believe nobody who disagrees with you ever thought about that?

Do you believe that everyone who doesn't believe exactly like you is a complete idiot?
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
They look like beautifully designed creatures to me....hand crafted works of art.
But they aren't. They're naturally reproducing organisms.

Natural selection has a flare for color and design?....how clever of something that has no intelligent direction.
Actually, it's YOU who has the flare for colour and design. Nature has no preference - it's the observer that has a purely aesthetic appreciation for it.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Really? Nature is just "naturally programmed" to select the best for itself....a bit like us going into a store and selecting the things we want in clothing and food and footwear.....but its a conscious choice based by an intelligent mind with an outcome envisaged.
When rocks are blown into a hole by the wind such that only rocks of a certain size fall town to the bottom of the hole and other rocks get stuck, is that the wind or hole "intelligently determining" which rocks should be at the bottom of the hole? No. It's the same for evolution. The organisms that have mutations that are beneficial to reproduction and survivability will be more likely to pass on those genes to their children, thus resulting in it eventually influencing the overall allele frequency of a population. If you wish to believe an intelligence is behind this, go ahead, but you cannot argue that it is necessarily required without fundamentally misunderstanding how natural selection actually works.

That is true.....the wrong kind of worship can set a person up for bad parenting. Ancient peoples sacrificed their children to their gods, so I agree with you.
Like when people allow their children to die for the sake of their beliefs?

But the right kind of worship can be very advantageous, imparting good principles and having a Higher Authority to account to at the end of the day, means that no injustice goes unpunished.
Actually, that is false. The Christian system of forgiveness and salvation allows a person to be an incredibly rotten person throughout their entire life and still escape any kind of punishment by being saved at the end of it. Your doctrine specifically promotes the notion that punishment isn't always forthcoming because anyone can be saved through grace. It is a fundamentally unjust system of faith.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
You will have wasted a hell of a lot of your time and life devoted to and perpetuating a falsehood.

That "falsehood" has made me a better wife and mother...a better and more caring friend and neighbor....a person concerned about the welfare of others and in teaching my children the same values. We are not animals who can excuse our behavior based on that premise.We have a Creator who is also the best teacher in existence.

Nothing, since we only go where the evidence goes.

What evidence? The stuff evolutionary science wants you to swallow.......? All the best with that.
4fvgdaq_th.gif


You honestly believe nobody who disagrees with you ever thought about that?

Do they? Or are they so mad at God for not revealing himself more clearly that they let their anger cancel him out altogether?
In cancelling out God through lack of what people require as evidence, they cancel out what he is offering to all humanity. That is a choice we must all make for ourselves. God already knows those who belong to him through faith in his word.....but he lingers, waiting for others to find him....those who aren't shaking their fist at him.

Do you believe that everyone who doesn't believe exactly like you is a complete idiot?

No not a "complete" idiot.
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I see it as "blindness"....the kind induced in those who do not want to see what is right under their noses. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

There is an invitation with every human's name on it......most will refuse it, for a variety of reasons.
They will still miss out.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
That "falsehood" has made me a better wife and mother... a better and more caring friend and neighbor....a person concerned about the welfare of others and in teaching my children the same values.
But if it was a falsehood, then obviously it wasn't THAT which made you a better person.

We are not animals who can excuse our behavior based on that premise.We have a Creator who is also the best teacher in existence.
Then I am a better person than you, because I don't need a Creator, and I can accept that we are animals, and yet I am still more than capable of all of your virtues.

What evidence? The stuff evolutionary science wants you to swallow.......? All the best with that.
You've demonstrated no understanding of it to date.

Do they? Or are they so mad at God for not revealing himself more clearly that they let their anger cancel him out altogether?
Hard to be mad at something that you don't believe exists. Why is it that you struggle so much with the concept of people not believing what you believe?

In cancelling out God through lack of what people require as evidence, they cancel out what he is offering to all humanity.
A thing that doesn't exist offers nothing.

No not a "complete" idiot.
Then stop insinuating that hey haven't considered the bleeding obvious. I guarantee that I have thought longer and harder about my beliefs and the consequences of them than you have.

There is an invitation with every human's name on it......most will refuse it, for a variety of reasons.
They will still miss out.
Or not, which is the more likely conclusion.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
But they aren't. They're naturally reproducing organisms.

What does "naturally" mean to you? Something that happens for no intelligent reason? Reason requires a mind, doesn't it? There always seems to be a very good reason for what "nature" produces. Its systems are well designed and interactive, yet there is no designer in your scenario. That makes no sense to me.
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Actually, it's YOU who has the flare for colour and design. Nature has no preference - it's the observer that has a purely aesthetic appreciation for it.

I couldn't agree more! We are the only creatures designed to appreciate beauty and be moved to praise the one who produced it. Who walks into an art gallery and assumes that the artwork was a product of natural selection?......who can observe the talent of the craftsman and deny the existence of the artist?
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Only an idiot. (complete or otherwise)

When was the last time you saw a cow standing in a field appreciating the beauty of a sunset? Or a bird or butterfly consulting his GPS in order to know where to migrate to?
How many birds refer to a manual in order to construct a specific type of nest according to their species? It seems that you evolutionists take a lot for granted with very little real evidence required to believe your fantasy.
I prefer my fantasy over yours. At least its logical. (It doesn't have to be scientific, because the Creator is not bound by human rules concerning what little it knows about creation.)
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
Only in your imagination......IMO only a fool ...

They look like beautifully designed creatures to me....

That makes no sense to me.

I am amazed that with one breath @Deeje can declare how proud she is that she is uneducated and knows nothing of the technical aspects of the subjects we are discussing here, yet with her next breath importunes intelligent and educated people who are au courant in the applicable specialties to take seriously your appeals to your opinions. That's a joke of the first order.

(sidebar: There you go, Deeje, make fun of the French and the fifty cent word again, after you look it up. Every time you click over to google, now and in the future, just remember ... there are lots of folks who do not need to do so) .
 
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