• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Just Accidental?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Oh I do not disagree with stopping pollution and destruction caused by humans. But can I point out that it is very arrogant to presume an entire planet is made purely for you as a species. Conceited much?

Psalm 115:16....
"As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah,

But the earth he has given to the sons of men."


Its not conceit......God says its his gift to us. He has made this earth for humans and humans for the earth. He assigned us as caretakers, but we have done a lousy job. There will be an accounting.

Revelation 11:18....."But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”

Even 2,000 years ago, the Bible foretold that humans would have the capacity to "ruin the earth". It would have been inconceivable back then....not so inconceivable now.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Psalm 115:16....
"As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah,

But the earth he has given to the sons of men."


Its not conceit......God says its his gift to us. He has made this earth for humans and humans for the earth. He assigned us as caretakers, but we have done a lousy job. There will be an accounting.

Revelation 11:18....."But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”

Even 2,000 years ago, the Bible foretold that humans would have the capacity to "ruin the earth". It would have been inconceivable back then....not so inconceivable now.
Well humans are rather good at destroying things. I doubt it would have been inconceivable 2000 years ago. Maybe a tad out there. But since the Bible, as far as I can tell, doesn't have a lot of faith in humans (for lack of a better phrase) I would have expected it to foresee our ruination of the earth.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Since we have all the senses and a brain to interpret their input, it strikes me as obvious that the necessity to eliminate an Intelligent Designer, is what would describe a fool.
I never eliminated an intelligent designer. I just said your argument is poor, which it is.

Do you understand what is involved in finding those scenes "pretty"? ...and why we are the only ones who do?
Why is that relevant to whether or not we, or the Universe, were specifically designed for it? Again, where does "I find this thing pretty" lead to the conclusion "Therefore, this thing and I were specifically designed"?

How could my argument be more "terrible" than yours?
Because it's baseless and nonsensical.

If everything just evolved with no intelligent direction whatsoever, please explain why we find nature awe inspiring? Is there some survival advantage in that?
Because we developed complex brains capable of abstract thinking and communication, and part and parcel of these developments is to experience various forms on input in a variety of ways in order to greater express and thus communicate our shared experience of the world.

If I were an animal, I'd be happy eating grass like cows and sheep do all their lives without expecting anything different.
So you're suggesting sentience is in some way a magical trait that is particularly special. Why?

Why do we humans have so much variety in our diet when we could easily subsist on boring vegetation too, just like they do?
Because the vast majority of things we eat are specifically cultivated BY us to make them more fit to OUR tastes.

We could live on these....
images
but we'd have to grow them first.

But then we love these...
images

and these...
images


And these...
images

and these...
images


Why don't animals cook a variety of food and present it in an appetizing way?
Why do humans not communicate with sonar?

The questions you're asking are irrelevant. Pointing out there are certain abilities or habits unique to humans demonstrates nothing other than humans have certain unique habits or abilities. How does this conclusion necessitate the leap to "humans have unique features: therefore, we are specifically designed"?

Why do most animals have inbuilt programming that ensures their survival, but humans must learn everything from their parents and peers?
Because the human brain is very good at processing input but not very good at instinct. We evolved as a social species, reliant on each other working together to live. Hence, the need to function instinctively is outweighed by our ability to acclimatize to our social environment and learn to live in it.

Do you understand in how many ways we are not just a little different....but incredibly different?
Do you understand how that's completely irrelevant to whether or not there is a God?

We have skills that animals do not.....like communication. We can verbalize and hear like animals, but what we do with communication is amazing by comparison. We can write and speak in a way that communicates the same thoughts in two different ways. We communicate through the spoken word, the written word, through art and theater. We communicate using technology devised by intelligent minds over vast distances. TV, the internet, radio and telephone. We comprehend fiction.

We alone possess a concept of past, present and future. We alone possess the faculty of imagination....along with morality and conscience. We alone possess spirituality and express a need to worship. We plan our activities using all those things. Animals are driven almost entirely by instinct, we are not. Why?

Could it be because we are not animals? :shrug:
Or could it be that we're animals that simply CAN do those things?

Why have you never even considered that possibility?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
You think God planned miscarriages? o_O Sin causes all manner of human imperfections. "Sin" is simply the loss of the perfection that Adam was originally created with.
If God kills unborn babies because some others in society sin, then He is nothing short of being a homicidal maniac.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Well humans are rather good at destroying things. I doubt it would have been inconceivable 2000 years ago. Maybe a tad out there. But since the Bible, as far as I can tell, doesn't have a lot of faith in humans (for lack of a better phrase) I would have expected it to foresee our ruination of the earth.

The most destructive element known to man back in Bible times was fire. Cities were destroyed by setting them on fire.

Destructive elements greater than fire were not at man's disposal. (hurricanes, volcanoes, earthquakes etc) But there was nothing in the imagination of men that could have visualized what we see as a destructive threat today, particularly in the hands of rogue nations, ruled by unstable dictators.

DPNE-SStarr2015-02z.jpg
images


In the time when the Bible was written, only God possessed such power. (Unleashed upon the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah for their gross immorality.) Now men corrupted by their own power have their fingers on the button.

Who thinks a nuclear war is winnable? Who has their faith in men? Not me.
no.gif


I have faith in someone who is way more powerful than men, and has a lot more restraint. Notice has been served as to his future actions and no one who doesn't deserve to be evicted has anything to worry about.....not even any fallout.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
The most destructive element known to man back in Bible times was fire. Cities were destroyed by setting them on fire.

Destructive elements greater than fire were not at man's disposal. (hurricanes, volcanoes, earthquakes etc) But there was nothing in the imagination of men that could have visualized what we see as a destructive threat today, particularly in the hands of rogue nations, ruled by unstable dictators.

DPNE-SStarr2015-02z.jpg
images


In the time when the Bible was written, only God possessed such power. (Unleashed upon the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah for their gross immorality.) Now men corrupted by their own power have their fingers on the button.

Who thinks a nuclear war is winnable? Who has their faith in men? Not me.
no.gif


I have faith in someone who is way more powerful than men, and has a lot more restraint. Notice has been served as to his future actions and no one who doesn't deserve to be evicted has anything to worry about.....not even any fallout.
Yeah well I don't think even Einstein wanted that for the power his atomic bomb unleashed. Poor guy was caught in the middle of a war. Literally in fact.
Nuclear War is indeed scary. But really it was only a matter of time before humans got their grubby little mits on such power.

I don't fear anything of the sort honestly. I mean sure Trump is an idiot to goad NK like he's doing. But still. To live in fear is no life at all.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I never eliminated an intelligent designer. I just said your argument is poor, which it is.

In the opinion of evolutionists it might be poor......but I have to ask....who cares about the opinion of evolutionists.....not God, I can assure you....me either. They have no more real evidence than we do.

Why is that relevant to whether or not we, or the Universe, were specifically designed for it? Again, where does "I find this thing pretty" lead to the conclusion "Therefore, this thing and I were specifically designed"?

Strawman....

images


Design indicates planning. Planning indicates intelligence.....and design is everywhere in nature....even in things we cannot see with the naked eye. You can't argue with that. It is logical common sense.

Like this......for example.
"Coccolithophores: phytoplankton

coccolithophore.jpg

"calcium carbonate is a pretty heavy material for a phytoplankton exoskeleton, coccolithophores sink faster than many other phytoplankton species. In other words these guys transport a lot of inorganic carbon to the deep ocean."

Was that just another "accident of nature" or does it exhibit purposeful design?

If I wandered through the woods and found a Rolex watch hanging from a bush, I would not logically conclude that it just grew there. I would use my logic to conclude that it had a designer and maker and that someone had lost something very valuable.

A computer is used by almost everyone in western society today.....it was designed and modified again and again to produce better and better models with incredible features and abilities.....but intellect was involved in the upgrades, just as it was involved in the original design. None of it just happened by chance.

The human brain is not a fortunate accident of nature any more than a computer is. No other being on this planet has a brain capacity like ours. If evolution is true, why are we unique? Why have no other creatures evolved like we have?

Because it's baseless and nonsensical.

Your own claims are baseless and nonsensical when you really examine them. It is a house of cards teetering on the brink of collapse.

Because we developed complex brains capable of abstract thinking and communication, and part and parcel of these developments is to experience various forms on input in a variety of ways in order to greater express and thus communicate our shared experience of the world.

"We developed" ......said as if you had proof for that blind statement. It sounds good until you take this argument apart and consider the impossibility of what you are suggesting. Again, if evolution is a fact, why are we alone in this category? Why are humans miles ahead in their development whilst no other creatures are even close to exhibiting our capabilities?

So you're suggesting sentience is in some way a magical trait that is particularly special. Why?

"Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively. Eighteenth-century philosophers used the concept to distinguish the ability to think (reason) from the ability to feel (sentience)."

Sentience is not magical....it is the product of intelligent design. Our ability to think, reason, plan, respond and understand our activities and the activities of others is unique to us. It isn't programmed response...it is a logical consequence of intelligently applying reason.....at least in some of us. :confused:

Why do humans not communicate with sonar?

Perhaps because we are not bats or dolphins. Human do use sonar but had to develop the technology intelligently for use in the same habitats. How much intelligence did it take to mimic the original that you assume had no designer? :facepalm:

The questions you're asking are irrelevant. Pointing out there are certain abilities or habits unique to humans demonstrates nothing other than humans have certain unique habits or abilities. How does this conclusion necessitate the leap to "humans have unique features: therefore, we are specifically designed"?

Fobbed off again without acknowledging the incredible, unbridgeable gulf between us and other creatures on this planet.
Evolution cannot explain why we alone possess the capabilities we do, so they just make wild guesses....the Bible does explain, and it makes perfect sense to those who haven't ruled out an Intelligent Power behind creation.

Do you understand how that's completely irrelevant to whether or not there is a God?

You can find anything irrelevant if it suits your argument.

Or could it be that we're animals that simply CAN do those things?

Why have you never even considered that possibility?

If there were other animals on this planet who were even remotely in the same league as us in intelligence and ingenuity and creativity, I might consider it. Since they have been on the planet a lot longer than we have.....why has that never happened I wonder? :shrug: Just another fluke huh?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
If God kills unborn babies because some others in society sin, then He is nothing short of being a homicidal maniac.

With that kind of thinking, it is no wonder people have languished in indecision about God for most of their lives.
4fvgdaq_th.gif
They are content to apply their limited knowledge to an unlimited God and come to their own conclusions. So be it. He owes us nothing.

Without God, there are no answers to the questions we all ask.....God provides the answers in his word, and we are free to accept them or to reject them. We all have the same choices. If this is who you think God is, then do not expect him to tap you on the shoulder and invite you to share in his original vision for the human race any time soon.
4chsmu1.gif
We need him...he doesn't need us.

God does not kill unborn babies any more than you would. Do you think you could do things better than him? Do you have more insight? More intelligence? More wisdom? More power? Really?
Then you are your own god and he will let you worship yourself for as long as the system lasts.....but you will never understand anything, (James 1:5-8) ......at the end you certainly will......:(
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Yeah well I don't think even Einstein wanted that for the power his atomic bomb unleashed. Poor guy was caught in the middle of a war. Literally in fact.

He played a major role in its development.

Albert Einstein and the Atomic Bomb

J. Robert Oppenheimer was the wartime head of the Los Alamos Laboratory and is among those who are credited with being the "father of the atomic bomb" for their role in the Manhattan Project, the World War II undertaking that developed the first nuclear weapons used in the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

J. Robert Oppenheimer - Wikipedia

Nuclear War is indeed scary. But really it was only a matter of time before humans got their grubby little mits on such power.

I don't fear anything of the sort honestly. I mean sure Trump is an idiot to goad NK like he's doing. But still. To live in fear is no life at all.

Unfortunately, fear is one of the most expressed emotions on this planet. If everyone lived by the principles outlined in the Bible....no one would have anything to fear from anyone. It's a shame that the people who developed, and then planned to drop atomic bombs on human beings for the first time in history, purported to be "Christians". Nothing could have been further from the truth. No follower of Christ could ever have done something like that.

A weapon this heinous could only come from those who display the devil's characteristics. How many innocent people were vaporized in an instant (the fortunate ones as it turned out)....how many died in agony from their burns.....and how many carried their disfiguring scars and disabilities for life? The unborn continued to be affected for generations. The images are too graphic to post. :(
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
...
"Coccolithophores: phytoplankton

coccolithophore.jpg

"calcium carbonate is a pretty heavy material for a phytoplankton exoskeleton, coccolithophores sink faster than many other phytoplankton species. In other words these guys transport a lot of inorganic carbon to the deep ocean."

Was that just another "accident of nature" or does it exhibit purposeful design?
Come on, at least get it right: Calcium carbonate is only deposited in water shallower than about 4500m. Calcium carbonate is essentially insoluble in sea surface waters today. Shells of dead calcareous plankton sinking to deeper waters are practically unaltered until reaching the lysocline where the solubility increases dramatically, this is know as the Calcite Compensation Depth (CCD), the depth in the oceans below which the rate of supply of calcite lags the rate of solvation, such that no calcite is preserved.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Come on, at least get it right: Calcium carbonate is only deposited in water shallower than about 4500m. Calcium carbonate is essentially insoluble in sea surface waters today. Shells of dead calcareous plankton sinking to deeper waters are practically unaltered until reaching the lysocline where the solubility increases dramatically, this is know as the Calcite Compensation Depth (CCD), the depth in the oceans below which the rate of supply of calcite lags the rate of solvation, such that no calcite is preserved.

Oh good grief Sapiens!
4fvgdaq_th.gif
I didn't write it....I only quoted it.

Perhaps you should make it your goal to vet every utterance on marine biology that comes over the internet for accuracy.

Here...go to town....

https://oceanbites.org/blooming-around-the-world-a-story-of-coccolithophore-co-existence/

Phytoplankton responding to climate change : Nature News

Coccolithophores: Tiny Phytoplankton Help Store Carbon in the Ocean


I understand that this is your thing.....but seriously, that wasn't the point I was making. Look at the perfection under magnification! The accuracy of the rest is of little consequence to anyone but you.
297.gif
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
Oh good grief Sapiens!
4fvgdaq_th.gif
I didn't write it....I only quoted it.

Perhaps you should make it your goal to vet every utterance on marine biology that comes over the internet for accuracy.

Here...go to town....

https://oceanbites.org/blooming-around-the-world-a-story-of-coccolithophore-co-existence/

Phytoplankton responding to climate change : Nature News

Coccolithophores: Tiny Phytoplankton Help Store Carbon in the Ocean


I understand that this is your thing.....but seriously, that wasn't the point I was making. Look at the perfection under magnification! The accuracy of the rest is of little consequence to anyone but you.
297.gif
When you attempt to use a quote to support you claims you become responsible for it and for its use. Just another demonstration of the underlying fact that you have no idea what you are talking about ... out of your depth ... as it were.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
When you attempt to use a quote to support you claims you become responsible for it and for its use.

Oh NO!!!
cry2.gif
shame.gif
Its too much responsibility!!

Just another demonstration of the underlying fact that you have no idea what you are talking about ... out of your depth ... as it were.

zthinking2.gif
You crack me up....
171.gif


Are you actually being serious......? I think you need to tell someone who cares......
mornincoffee.gif
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
With that kind of thinking, it is no wonder people have languished in indecision about God for most of their lives.
4fvgdaq_th.gif
They are content to apply their limited knowledge to an unlimited God and come to their own conclusions. So be it. He owes us nothing.

Without God, there are no answers to the questions we all ask.....God provides the answers in his word, and we are free to accept them or to reject them. We all have the same choices. If this is who you think God is, then do not expect him to tap you on the shoulder and invite you to share in his original vision for the human race any time soon.
4chsmu1.gif
We need him...he doesn't need us.

God does not kill unborn babies any more than you would. Do you think you could do things better than him? Do you have more insight? More intelligence? More wisdom? More power? Really?
Then you are your own god and he will let you worship yourself for as long as the system lasts.....but you will never understand anything, (James 1:5-8) ......at the end you certainly will......:(
You walked right around the point without actually dealing with it. So, again, why would God, who supposedly set up all the rules for our universe, Deeje, have it that children would be punished or killed through miscarriage or serious birth defects because some people thousands to millions of years ago didn't obey Him?

Now, this time please try and directly deal with the question.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
You walked right around the point without actually dealing with it. So, again, why would God, who supposedly set up all the rules for our universe, Deeje, have it that children would be punished or killed through miscarriage or serious birth defects because some people thousands to millions of years ago didn't obey Him?
Hey, in David and Bathsheba story, they committed adultery, the king had her husband arranged to be killed, but who was innocent to suffered for their sin, punished by god?

Their son, who lingered in agonising pain from illness that took days before he died.

Yes, David suffered from losing his son, but it was God who caused the child’s great suffering.

Definitely not the same loving god that Jesus claimed him to be. God sounds like a cruel tyrant who inflicting pain on a baby. Did Deeje miss that part of the story?
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Since we have all the senses and a brain to interpret their input, it strikes me as obvious that the necessity to eliminate an Intelligent Designer, is what would describe a fool.

Do you understand what is involved in finding those scenes "pretty"? ...and why we are the only ones who do?
Perhaps you could explain it to us in detail, including how you know that humans are the only creatures that find some things in nature pleasing to the eye. Then maybe you could explain why say, tape worms, for example aren't also beautiful and pleasing to the eye. Why is it only some things?


How could my argument be more "terrible" than yours? :eek:

If everything just evolved with no intelligent direction whatsoever, please explain why we find nature awe inspiring? Is there some survival advantage in that?

If I were an animal, I'd be happy eating grass like cows and sheep do all their lives without expecting anything different.

Why do we humans have so much variety in our diet when we could easily subsist on boring vegetation too, just like they do?

We could live on these....
images
but we'd have to grow them first.

But then we love these...
images

and these...
images


And these...
images

and these...
images

Why don't animals cook a variety of food and present it in an appetizing way? Why do most animals have inbuilt programming that ensures their survival, but humans must learn everything from their parents and peers?
I think you've just made his point for him. This line of argumentation is silly.

Do you understand in how many ways we are not just a little different....but incredibly different?


We have skills that animals do not.....like communication. We can verbalize and hear like animals, but what we do with communication is amazing by comparison. We can write and speak in a way that communicates the same thoughts in two different ways. We communicate through the spoken word, the written word, through art and theater. We communicate using technology devised by intelligent minds over vast distances. TV, the internet, radio and telephone. We comprehend fiction.
Do you really think animals can't communicate? In all your looking around at the beautiful animals around you, you somehow failed to notice that they can communicate?


We alone possess a concept of past, present and future. We alone possess the faculty of imagination....along with morality and conscience. We alone possess spirituality and express a need to worship. We plan our activities using all those things. Animals are driven almost entirely by instinct, we are not. Why?
Like I keep pointing out, you really need to do some some researcher than goes a lot deeper than how pretty things are on the surface. Other animals possess concepts of time and fairness, among many other things. Human beings are driven by instinct as well.

I don't know why it's so special that some of us worship gods, because some of us don't worship gods. Unless you want to think that those that worship god(s) are superior to those than don't.
Could it be because we are not animals? :shrug:
No, because we are animals.
 
Last edited:

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
No Christian has the ability to read another person's heart....only Jesus has that job.

If you can't accept Noah as a real person, then do you consider Jesus to be a real person?

If Jesus spoke about Noah, do you think he would speak about a fictitious person and base his return on a character that someone invented? (Matthew 24:37-39) The apostle Peter spoke about Noah too. (1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5-7)

Paul too. (Hebrews 11:7)



Please don't expect to see justice and truth promoted in a world ruled by the devil....(1 John 5:19)

True justice will prevail in the new world, but it is not seen too often in this one. (2 Peter 3:13)

Truth is definitely here though....it is just buried under a pile of junk. Jesus said it was like buried treasure under that junk....you have to exert some effort to bring it to the surface....its a bit like trying to find diamonds in a pile of broken glass.

You have to be prepared to clear the junk away, piece by piece and then you will see it clearly. The junk is mostly contributed by Christendom. :(
Sounds like a wonderful world your creator has made for us here.o_O
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
Oh NO!!!
cry2.gif
shame.gif
Its too much responsibility!!



zthinking2.gif
You crack me up....
171.gif


Are you actually being serious......? I think you need to tell someone who cares......
mornincoffee.gif
I think that you need to advocate for truth and admit when you are wrong. You make it clear that you do not believe in advancing truth, rather only your narrow views.
 

scott777

Member
Since we have all the senses and a brain to interpret their input, it strikes me as obvious that the necessity to eliminate an Intelligent Designer, is what would describe a fool.

Do you understand what is involved in finding those scenes "pretty"? ...and why we are the only ones who do?

images



How could my argument be more "terrible" than yours? :eek:

If everything just evolved with no intelligent direction whatsoever, please explain why we find nature awe inspiring? Is there some survival advantage in that?

If I were an animal, I'd be happy eating grass like cows and sheep do all their lives without expecting anything different.

Why do we humans have so much variety in our diet when we could easily subsist on boring vegetation too, just like they do?

We could live on these....
images
but we'd have to grow them first.

But then we love these...
images

and these...
images


And these...
images

and these...
images


Why don't animals cook a variety of food and present it in an appetizing way? Why do most animals have inbuilt programming that ensures their survival, but humans must learn everything from their parents and peers?

Do you understand in how many ways we are not just a little different....but incredibly different?

We have skills that animals do not.....like communication. We can verbalize and hear like animals, but what we do with communication is amazing by comparison. We can write and speak in a way that communicates the same thoughts in two different ways. We communicate through the spoken word, the written word, through art and theater. We communicate using technology devised by intelligent minds over vast distances. TV, the internet, radio and telephone. We comprehend fiction.

We alone possess a concept of past, present and future. We alone possess the faculty of imagination....along with morality and conscience. We alone possess spirituality and express a need to worship. We plan our activities using all those things. Animals are driven almost entirely by instinct, we are not. Why?

Could it be because we are not animals? :shrug:

Have you heard of fractals? They are patterns produced by taking a very simple algorithm (a short mathematical function which is in itself is not at all beautiful), and repeating it many times to produce an image. I will try to post an image, but I'm new here.

fractal.png


Would you agree it is beautiful?

But the image is NOT designed!

Humans see beauty in things because it has helped our ancestors to survive. It has given us a sense of wanting to explore and investigate, both things which have at times meant the difference between life and death.

Humans also have lots of inbuilt programming that helps survival, such as pain, hunger, need to sleep, desire for excitement and danger, desire for sex, etc, etc. Animals also develop a lot through learning. Animals also communicate OBVIOUSLY. Our communication is amazing because we have large brains which learn advanced things.

I’d like to know how you know animals cannot imagine things and that they don’t have a conscience. I would disagree on both counts. Finally, we are scientifically categorised as animals.
 
Last edited:

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Hello and welcome to RF........
20.gif
I think....

Have you heard of fractals? They are patterns produced by taking a very simple algorithm (a short mathematical function which is in itself is not at all beautiful), and repeating it many times to produce an image. I will try to post an image, but I'm new here.

View attachment 19181

Would you agree it is beautiful?

But the image is NOT designed!

And yet the machinery used to produce the image is designed by an intelligent mind......the mind that can comprehend the algorithm is also uniquely and intelligently human.

Kaleidoscopes are not new either and can produce patterns in much the same way....but who had to make the Kaleidoscope? The mirrors did not assemble themselves. The computer that processed the fractal is the product of an intelligent mind. I believe that the algorithms are the product of an intelligent mind as well.

Humans see beauty in things because it has helped our ancestors to survive. It has given us a sense of wanting to explore and investigate, both things which have at times meant the difference between life and death.

That does not explain why we collectively interpret beauty in much the same way. We are designed to interpret beauty in a way that animals are not. Animals are programmed by instinct and beauty to them ends up as either food or to trigger reproduction. Hormones and pheromones also play a crucial role in reproduction. None of which I see as "accidental".
no.gif


Humans also have lots of inbuilt programming that helps survival, such as pain, hunger, need to sleep, desire for excitement and danger, desire for sex, etc, etc. Animals also develop a lot through learning. Animals also communicate OBVIOUSLY. Our communication is amazing because we have large brains which learn advanced things.

And yet this does not explain why we are the youngest on the evolutionary tree but have advance way passed many species that were around for millions of years before us....go figure. :shrug:

I’d like to know how you know animals cannot imagine things and that they don’t have a conscience. I would disagree on both counts. Finally, we are scientifically categorised as animals.

I have never seen an animal stop to admire the scenery unless it had an attraction such as a scent which conveyed information to that animal of prey or predator or rival. In each case a programmed response kicks in....no planning is required. Very few animals can identify themselves in a mirror, meaning that they lack imagination. Very intelligent animals can recognize their own reflection, but still do not exhibit anywhere near the capabilities of humans.

Conscience is a purely human faculty. It comes from our unique moral capacity. We alone possess the ability to contemplate past, present and future, as concepts beyond the now. Conscience operates in all three realms. We can express regret with pangs of conscience over past wrongs, contemplate what a present action might result in, avoiding a bad conscience as a result, and plan never to act in a certain way in the future by applying past and present knowledge.
I do not know of any other creature on earth who can do any of that....except us. We alone mirror the traits of our Creator.

God does not classify us as animals BTW.....science does that to support its theory. It is also justification for humans to behave like animals......sadly. :(
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top