Just what is practice and what is the results?

[Avisitor]

So, I have been wondering what practice does to a person. It obviously changes a person one way or another. Let us look at it. We sit still. We let thoughts go in and go out. We do not chase the thoughts. We do not follow the thoughts. We concentrate and seek the stillness. What does that do to the mind. Well, it seems to me (and I invite anyone to speak out about what they believe) the process of meditation, when performed correctly, is the separation of consciousness from thoughts. The monologue in our heads has become our identity. Meditation separates the mind from the thoughts. We believe we are a separate person through our identifying with these thoughts. And as we know nothing arises by itself.

So, yes, we identify with our thoughts. Practice of meditation helps us separate ourselves from this monologue we believe us to be. Thru self observation, we can see the speed of our emotions and then the mind's thoughts arise to back up the emotions. Practice lets us not identify with these thoughts. They come and they go. We do not become swayed by them. Our continued practice makes us aware of our actions and their intent. We begin to know where we left our sandal by the door. Was it on the left or the right. Was the umbrella standing or put away. We become less like the monkey mind and more like the man who walks upright. Our actions and intent become center.

When the separation of mind and thoughts is complete, it comes thru grace that we see the truth of our true nature. It can be a question or a sound or an action that kicks us across the line. We enter the stream. Each time we enter, it is a different stream because it isn't static. It is alive and incredible. But, the saying still applies. Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood , carry water. It is like no know we have a foot. Then we become aware of that foot and there is so much more we can do with the foot. This isn't something we do not have already. Just unaware.

What is left after we break from self that is not self. When we realize that we are not this. We are not our thoughts. Emptiness is us. It fills the universe. All that we see and feel are things that are brought in front of this emptiness that we are. When we keep clear all defilements, we are left clean.

Okay, this is all conjecture until one actually frees themselves. I hope someone can say I am wrong and it is total BS. Then I can learn to become who or what I am from them. Thank you for reading.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So, I have been wondering what practice does to a person. It obviously changes a person one way or another. Let us look at it. We sit still. We let thoughts go in and go out. We do not chase the thoughts. We do not follow the thoughts. We concentrate and seek the stillness. What does that do to the mind. Well, it seems to me (and I invite anyone to speak out about what they believe) the process of meditation, when performed correctly, is the separation of consciousness from thoughts. The monologue in our heads has become our identity. Meditation separates the mind from the thoughts. We believe we are a separate person through our identifying with these thoughts. And as we know nothing arises by itself.

So, yes, we identify with our thoughts. Practice of meditation helps us separate ourselves from this monologue we believe us to be. Thru self observation, we can see the speed of our emotions and then the mind's thoughts arise to back up the emotions. Practice lets us not identify with these thoughts. They come and they go. We do not become swayed by them. Our continued practice makes us aware of our actions and their intent. We begin to know where we left our sandal by the door. Was it on the left or the right. Was the umbrella standing or put away. We become less like the monkey mind and more like the man who walks upright. Our actions and intent become center.

When the separation of mind and thoughts is complete, it comes thru grace that we see the truth of our true nature. It can be a question or a sound or an action that kicks us across the line. We enter the stream. Each time we enter, it is a different stream because it isn't static. It is alive and incredible. But, the saying still applies. Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood , carry water. It is like no know we have a foot. Then we become aware of that foot and there is so much more we can do with the foot. This isn't something we do not have already. Just unaware.

What is left after we break from self that is not self. When we realize that we are not this. We are not our thoughts. Emptiness is us. It fills the universe. All that we see and feel are things that are brought in front of this emptiness that we are. When we keep clear all defilements, we are left clean.

Okay, this is all conjecture until one actually frees themselves. I hope someone can say I am wrong and it is total BS. Then I can learn to become who or what I am from them. Thank you for reading.

It's only practice until one day you realize you can take it home with you.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Okay, this is all conjecture until one actually frees themselves. I hope someone can say I am wrong and it is total BS. Then I can learn to become who or what I am from them. Thank you for reading.

No, you are not wrong. But now pick up the broom, sweep the floor and bring water. Is not that fun?

 

[Avisitor]

From Google, ... What does meditation do to the mind?

Meditation can have many benefits for the mind, including:

Improved emotional regulation: Meditation can help you become more aware of your thoughts and emotions, and regulate your emotional reactivity. This can lead to improved emotional stability and resilience over time.

Reduced stress: Meditation can help you relax and cope with stress by focusing on something that calms you.

Improved working memory: Meditation can help improve working memory capacity.

Changes in brain networks: Meditation can change networks in the brain that are important for attention and emotion regulation. For example, meditation can reduce activity in the frontal lobe, which is associated with the anxiety response.

Improved ability to think and solve problems: Meditation can help improve your ability to think, concentrate, and solve problems.

Better ability to adapt to emotional problems: Meditation can help you better adapt to and overcome emotional problems.


Does meditation restructure the brain?

Yes, meditation can restructure the brain in several ways, including:

Neuroplasticity: Meditation can induce neuroplasticity, which can help improve cognitive functions and slow age-related brain degeneration.


Brain structure: Meditation can change the structure of the brain, including the thickness of the cortex and the size of the amygdala:

Cortex: Meditators have a thicker cortex in the anterior parts of the brain, such as the lateral PFC, MPFC, and temporal areas. They also have a thinner cortex in the posterior parts of the brain, including the lateral and medial parietal regions.

Amygdala: Meditation can reduce the size of the amygdala, the part of the brain that's responsible for fear, stress, and anxiety.

 

[Avisitor]

So, there is scientific proof that meditation does change a person who practice religiously. That change can prove to be what some call Kensho. So, what does a person experience when it happens?

Losing this false sense of self. Realizing our true nature? Can any one explain? Anything to add?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am not aware of the Japanese and Zen terms, but meditation on the subject of God made me an atheist. It was a relief, chapter closed.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So, there is scientific proof that meditation does change a person who practice religiously. That change can prove to be what some call Kensho. So, what does a person experience when it happens?

Losing this false sense of self. Realizing our true nature? Can any one explain? Anything to add?

Just think of it as everything is the Buddha's little joke. ;0)

 

[Avisitor]

What happens when one tries to meditate? We begin by sitting. Some close their eyes other look out unfocused. The mind starts off following breath. Say in with the in breath and out with the out breath. But, then the mind brings up thoughts of value to the person. The mind then chases or follows the thought. Then, the practice is broken.

When one realizes where one is at or doing, we bring ourselves back to practice. This is the order of events. Hopefully after much practice, the time spent on following breath gets longer. Our concentration builds. This is the beginning.

So. What is happening? We begin to gain control. Focused on practice, we separate ourselves from the thoughts. We dwell in stillness, emptiness. The thoughts come back with insights into our lives. Pulls us back. Much effort is needed to concentrate.

When we develop enough concentration, our outlook on life changes. It becomes more about intent and actions. Awareness grows. It isn't about the silence or the stopping of our thoughts. It is about not identifying with the thoughts. We become more than just thoughts or emotions. Keeping this mind clean from defilements. We learn more about who or what we are.

Note: If you think differently then please comment. We can learn together.

 

[Avisitor]

Many times, a practitioner will not let go of this mind and the thoughts flow and are controlled by this mind. There comes an endless train of thoughts. It isn't the thoughts that are the problem. It is following the thoughts and identifying with the thoughts. This identifying is the connection which keeps us separate from seeing our true selves. As it is said that the person seeking enlightenment can not be the one who experiences it.

I believe that when Bodhidharma was at the Shaolin Temple, he went into the meditation hall and asked what people were doing in there. One monk said that they were practicing meditation to become enlightened. Bodhidharma then took a roof tile and began to polish it. The monk asked him what he was doing. He said if you can practice to become enlightened then I can polish this roof tile to become a mirror. This shows the difficulty in the practice and what is practice is really meant to do.

I have known people to believe that all they have to do is to stop thoughts. But, it isn't that simple. Hitting one over the head will stop thoughts but will not make one enlightened. Practice of meditation is to allow the person's awareness to not identify with the thoughts. To build concentration. When not attached to thoughts, This awareness and concentration can become mindfulness. One is no longer following thoughts but is aware of actions and intentions. Mindful of the actions and people's intentions.

I have also known a man who kept believing that to become more like Buddha that he had to debate people with Buddha knowledge. Winning the debates would make him like the Buddha. The Buddha left the Dharma for others to follow his foot steps. The eight fold path corrects the the house for the master to return. Right living, bringing ourselves in line with those who live the Dharma.

Yeah, sometimes it can feel like I am polishing the roof tile with my meditation practice. But, I know the effort is not wasted. I wish everyone well on their journey.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What happens when one tries to meditate? We begin by sitting. Some close their eyes other look out unfocused. The mind starts off following breath. Say in with the in breath and out with the out breath. But, then the mind brings up thoughts of value to the person. The mind then chases or follows the thought. Then, the practice is broken.

When one realizes where one is at or doing, we bring ourselves back to practice. This is the order of events. Hopefully after much practice, the time spent on following breath gets longer. Our concentration builds. This is the beginning.

So. What is happening? We begin to gain control. Focused on practice, we separate ourselves from the thoughts. We dwell in stillness, emptiness. The thoughts come back with insights into our lives. Pulls us back. Much effort is needed to concentrate.

When we develop enough concentration, our outlook on life changes. It becomes more about intent and actions. Awareness grows. It isn't about the silence or the stopping of our thoughts. It is about not identifying with the thoughts. We become more than just thoughts or emotions. Keeping this mind clean from defilements. We learn more about who or what we are.

Note: If you think differently then please comment. We can learn together.

Well it's important to understand that counting breath is not meditation, it's just a practice to develop focus, so you can meditate.

Eventually you won't need to count anymore which would be shikantaza.

 

[Aupmanyav]

We dwell in stillness, emptiness. The thoughts come back with insights into our lives.

When we develop enough concentration, our outlook on life changes. It becomes more about intent and actions. Awareness grows. It isn't about the silence or the stopping of our thoughts. It is about not identifying with the thoughts. We become more than just thoughts or emotions. Keeping this mind clean from defilement. We learn more about who or what we are. The Buddha left the Dharma for others to follow his foot steps.

That is momentary. IMHO, thought should come back to life. That is what we are meditating for, insight into life.
That is true, and I think you have presented it very nicely.

Dharma is the essence of life.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Well it's important to understand that counting breath is not meditation, it's just a practice to develop focus, so you can meditate.
Eventually you won't need to count anymore which would be shikantaza.

Oh, I used to sing, sing to meditation - no counting of breaths, count octaves.

 

[Avisitor]

I believe the Buddha mentioned that there were like 88 thousand ways to Nirvana. Some sing, some dance, some do Koans and other seek silence. I couldn't tell you what or which way is best.

No one said that thoughts were bad. It is just to become the master of thoughts instead of being its slave.

Everyone thinks they know what meditation is and how to do it. It isn't cake if it is only half baked.

 

[Avisitor]

There may have been a question as to what it means to have no self and what is being reborn. The two is not the same. This self that is reborn is not the self that one believes themselves to be.