Just who are the Kurds?

[kai]

I was having a discussion with my friend Lava and the Kurd issue came up so in order to not side track the other very imprtant discussion i thought i might investigate who these people are.


Kurdistan Maps


Kurdistan Maps


Kurdpedia: Kurds, Kurdistan and Kurdish Language: Indo-Iranian Language




Lava i get the impression that you think Kurds are Turks and are not a distinct people , please correct me if i am wrong.

 

[Father John]

Like Macedonian people, Kurds are basically a single ethnic, linguistic and religious group of people who live in a geographical area that is now divided between a number of nations, each of which refuse to relinquish some of their territory to enable the Kurds to establish their own country. Their language is an Iranian dilaect, they are almost universally Muslim, they are generally located in Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria and there are large numbers living around the world, especially in western Europe.

I wish there was a way for international organisations to pursuade the nations involved to set aside some of their territory so that people like the Kurds, the Macedonians indeed the Palestinins could have their own country on the land that they have lived on for generations.

 

[.lava]

thanks for the invite Kai. i do not have time right now. i would like to tell you somethings though. then i hope i come back and we continue. but as i tried to say, there are things ou should know.

the most important of all is, we do not call this Kurdish problem. nobody has problem with Kurdish people. we have problem with PKK. in other words, when Turkish discuss this situation, none of them calls PKK as a Kurdish problem.

second the most important thing is, when we discuss problem with PKK, we have no choice but look back to see what happened after WWI. except for a very little part of Ottoman, everywhere was invaded by England, France, Italy, Greece..etc. then all people of Ottoman which include Kurdish people as well fought back to Western armies and took lands back together. so when we discuss PKK, we also discuss all the Peace Volunteers of Western nations who came to Eastern Turkiye for decades to talk to Kurdish citizens and give them support, educate their kids in Europe, give them money and organize them against our Republic.

now, if you're willing to see what is really happening ever since Ataturk died, you have to consider that we, citizens of this nation, know about DIVIDE AND CONQUER policy. something that worked on Jugoslavia. we know that, from aspects of politicians to TV shows, every possible media behavior that is used in Jugoslavia is also being used in Turkey. the mentality to divide a nation repeated itself but stuck somewhere else in Turkey.

here is an example (fresh one)
in last month of 2008, in a week nearly 10 mosques was attacked and burnt. those evil powers did their best to make it look like Alevi people did it. then Alevis (there are millions of Alevis in Turkey as there are millions of Sunnis) came and annoounced many times that Sunnis and Alevis are brtohers and they have nothng to do with those attacks. i believe them. everyone does. we know how it work to turn brothers into enemies to each other. it shall not work in here.

consider that. then tell me about PKK and who do they represent. nobody is against Kurdish people asking for rights or more rights. but you may not find people who supports PKK.

.

 

[Breathe]

nobody is against Kurdish people asking for rights or more rights.[/FONT]

What about if the Kurdish people want independence?

Kurds in Turkey are not allowed to broadcast programmes on television for their children in Kurdish.

They are not allowed to teach Kurdish as a first language to their children in their own schools.

They are not allowed to write their names correctly as you cannot use X or Q in the registrar of Turkey.

All of their television programmes must be subtitled, and they are only allowed about 4 hours a week, or half-hour at a time.

Ultimately, they are being forced to assimilate. Their language is being taken from them, turned into a second language that the grandchildren of those today will not use, their ability to have their own names officially registered is restricted.


It is no wonder with this, that so many Kurds (I have encountered quite a few!) want independence. I do not respect the PKK, at all, but I can understand why the Kurds want it so much. Many I have spoken to, if asked, "Where are you from?" they would respond, "Kurdistan". Not Turkey, not Iraq, not Iran, not Syria, but Kurdistan. I found this both sweet, and also quite saddening.

 

[.lava]

What about if the Kurdish people want independence?

as we witness all the time nobody gives you independence.

Kurds in Turkey are not allowed to broadcast programmes on television for their children in Kurdish.

TRT has just started Kurdish TV. all the Kurdish people who appear on that TV channal are threatened to death by PKK.

They are not allowed to teach Kurdish as a first language to their children in their own schools.

official language is Turkish. even Germans or English people who are living here are trying to learn Turkish.

They are not allowed to write their names correctly as you cannot use X or Q in the registrar of Turkey.

those letter are used in many cafes and restaurants. i use them here right now. i can't write my name correctly either but i do not kill Turkish citizens as a revenge.

All of their television programmes must be subtitled, and they are only allowed about 4 hours a week, or half-hour at a time.{/quote]

i do not have TV but if i am nt mistaken Kurdish TV has Turkish subtitles.

Ultimately, they are being forced to assimilate. Their language is being taken from them, turned into a second language that the grandchildren of those today will not use, their ability to have their own names officially registered is restricted.

language taken from them? i thought and i still think it was wrong to forbid Kurdish. their excuse was simple. when terrorists speak Kurdish, it was not possible for domestic security froces to understand what they were up too. i personally think it would have been better if security was ordered to learn Kurdish.

It is no wonder with this, that so many Kurds (I have encountered quite a few!) want independence. I do not respect the PKK, at all, but I can understand why the Kurds want it so much. Many I have spoken to, if asked, "Where are you from?" they would respond, "Kurdistan". Not Turkey, not Iraq, not Iran, not Syria, but Kurdistan. I found this both sweet, and also quite saddening.

i do not know if i should talk about this anymore. i need permission first. this is not about Islam. it might be wrong to be threatened to death because of this arguement. as it happens...but you are safe. wanna know? make an experiment....condemn Israel, defend Palestine, defend oneness of Turkiye and see who you're gonna face in your daily life, see their eyes watching with hatred and revenge as it happens...do you care? know who you are with. face who we face. face who wants to kill us but us first. do you think this is just a game? simply words and thoughts? you really think so? wake up. we risk our lives to speak out the truth but you don't know. if you knew...only if you knew Odion, you could only break down and cry for people like me. those who is killing for Kurdistan does not even give us right of free speech. they kill us to make our mouths shut. i might die but someone like me would take my place.

sorry that i have to drop this issue.
i would ask if i had permission to continue. if i was given permission then i would continue. if not, then excuse me.

.

 

[Caladan]

The Kurds are a large and distinct ethnic minority in the Middle East, numbering some 25-30 million people. The area that they have inhabited--referred to on maps for centuries as "Kurdistan"--spans modern day Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. Half of the Kurds reside in Turkey, where they comprise over 20 percent of the Turkish population.
Modern Turkey's founder, Mustafa Kemal (better known as Atatürk--"father of the Turks"), enacted a constitution 70 years ago which denied the existence of distinct cultural sub-groups in Turkey. As a result, any expression by the Kurds (as well as other minorities in Turkey) of unique ethnic identity has been harshly repressed. For example, until 1991, the use of the Kurdish language--although widespread--was illegal. To this day, any talk that hints of Kurdish nationalism is deemed separatism, and grounds for imprisonment.
The Turkish government has consistently thwarted attempts by the Kurds to organize politically. Kurdish political parties are shut down one after another, and party members are harassed and imprisoned for "crimes of opinion." Most famously, in 1994 Leyla Zana--who, three years prior, had been the first Kurdish woman elected to the Turkish parliament--was sentenced to 15 years for "separatist speech." Her party was banned. More recently, in June the leaders of the pro-Kurdish People's Democracy Party (HADEP) were sentenced to several-year prison terms for allegedly having ties with the outlawed PKK guerillas. The state prosecutors' evidence consisted largely of press releases found in the HADEP offices from a news agency close to the PKK.
Adding to the grievances of Turkey's Kurds is the economic underdevelopment of the southeast. The Ankara government has systematically withheld resources from the Kurdish region. As a result, there are two distinct Turkeys: the northern and western regions are highly developed and cosmopolitan, part of the "first world," while the south and east are truly of the "third world."
The disparity and repression led to the formation of an armed separatist movement, the PKK, in 1984. While the majority of Turkey's Kurds do not openly support separatism from the Turkish state, many do support the PKK, as the only force fighting for broader Kurdish cultural, economic and political rights.
The state immediately responded to this threat with increased force, deploying some 300,000 troops in the southeast at an annual cost of $8 billion. In addition, the Turkish armed forces instituted a system of "village guards," paying and arming Kurds to keep the PKK guerillas out of their villages. Villages that refuse to participate in the guard system face demolition by the Turkish military, while those that go along suffer under harsh reprisals by the PKK.
The war escalated dramatically in the early 1990s. Between 1984-91, an estimated 2,500 people had been killed. Over the next four years, that figure shot up to 20,000. Some 3,000 villages have been destroyed by the military in an effort to rout out PKK sympathizers, creating more than 2 million refugees.




The Kurds in Turkey

 

[Breathe]

as we witness all the time nobody gives you independence.

So they will fight for it.

TRT has just started Kurdish TV. all the Kurdish people who appear on that TV channal are threatened to death by PKK.

Too little too late. It's only natural that an ethnic minority which is NATIVE to the area should be allowed their own TV station. "Just started" is not good enough.

If the PKK do threaten their own, then it shows they are not to be trusted. However, this does not mean Kurds do not want their own homeland.

official language is Turkish. even Germans or English people who are living here are trying to learn Turkish.
That is not the same as for the natives. That is like a Turk coming to England, Ireland, France, etc, and demanding to be taught in Turkish only. The natives of the land, for example, the Scots, the Welsh, the Irish, the Bretons, all should be permitted (and in most cases, are) allowed to have their kids taught in their language.

Yet another reason Kurdistan should exist.

those letter are used in many cafes and restaurants. i use them here right now. i can't write my name correctly either but i do not kill Turkish citizens as a revenge.

I know you can use them. However, you cannot use X or Q in the registrar of Turkey. You cannot give a name with those, because they are not in the Turkish language.

i do not have TV but if i am nt mistaken Kurdish TV has Turkish subtitles.

Yes, they have to.

language taken from them? i thought and i still think it was wrong to forbid Kurdish. their excuse was simple. when terrorists speak Kurdish, it was not possible for domestic security froces to understand what they were up too. i personally think it would have been better if security was ordered to learn Kurdish.

Your right. They should have been ordered to learn Kurdish.

 

[.lava]

Modern Turkey's founder, Mustafa Kemal (better known as Atatürk--"father of the Turks"), enacted a constitution 70 years ago which denied the existence of distinct cultural sub-groups in Turkey.

that is a slander. a dirty slander to Ataturk. the man who came as president after him did all the 'original' wrongs that make us suffer today. his name was Inönü, for anyone who cares for the truth.

thank you.

.

 

[kai]

Lava who do you have to ask permission to talk about this?