JW's Jesus is Archangel Michael?

[Wharton]

Yes he was called "son of man" because he was....fully human born of a human mother in miraculous circumstances. He inherited no sin from her. That wasn't because she was sinless...it was because God's spirit was responsible for his conception. By means known only to himself, God transferred the life force of his son to the womb of a Jewish virgin so that he could rightly be called "the son of man".

He was called "son of the living God" which means that God was alive and was his Father....is that in dispute?

Where does Jesus get his humanity?

 

[Wharton]

OK Maybe hope doesn't but faith? LOL. Really?

Once you get to heaven, faith has done its job. It's not needed anymore.

 

[Wharton]

Would I be wrong to assume that you are Catholic? If you are, why do you hide your denomination like so many others here do? Are you ashamed to admit what "branch" you belong to? Or are you just dodging the inevitable flack? You know the whole glass houses thing?

I'm like Biblestudent, I just" play one" on the internet.

 

[Wharton]

That is because he was 100% human. You can't be 100% human and be also 100% God. So was he 50/50? Where does it say so in the Bible?

You can believe "this:it was because God's spirit was responsible for his conception. By means known only to himself," but can't believe that God took on humanity?

 

[Wharton]

Why did he have to be human to offer his life? Why did he not just materialise and do the job? How does it work...what does it all mean?

Because 1) His incarnation sanctifies ALL stages of human life from conception to death. 2) What is not incarnated is not redeemed/ransomed.

 

[JFish123]

OK Maybe hope doesn't but faith? LOL. Really?

Because on earth we have faith for things that are unseen, but in Heaven we will see it, so no need for faith

 

[kjw47]

JWs show the world a half man half angel creature. Also, you should obey your own rule which is, do not contradict scripture. To which one of God's angels did God ever say, "my son"? Hebrews 1:5

Jesus wasn't an angel when God called him son--He was a mortal--God said-- This is my son the beloved in whom I am well pleased--LISTEN TO HIM. This occurred at Jesus baptism as a mortal.
Little did mortal know--God was handing the key for free, to the entrance of his kingdom in that statement. No pick and choose--every teaching from Jesus must be learned and applied.

 

[savagewind]

Jesus wasn't an angel when God called him son--He was a mortal--God said-- This is my son the beloved in whom I am well pleased--LISTEN TO HIM. This occurred at Jesus baptism as a mortal.
Little did mortal know--God was handing the key for free, to the entrance of his kingdom in that statement. No pick and choose--every teaching from Jesus must be learned and applied.

If Jesus was mortal then God would have had to do away with or "kill" Michael. Where did Michael go according to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses?

 

[savagewind]

Once you get to heaven, faith has done its job. It's not needed anymore.

I agree that faith in heaven is not needed when one is in heaven, but faith in the will of God to be accomplished will always exist imo.

 

[savagewind]

Because on earth we have faith for things that are unseen, but in Heaven we will see it, so no need for faith

Excuse me. Faith in what will be will always be "needed". Or is Heaven the end of EVERYTHING? Yes, dead people and dead angels do not need faith. You got that right!

 

[kjw47]

If Jesus was mortal then God would have had to do away with or "kill" Michael. Where did Michael go according to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses?

I don't know what they say on that. The only reasonable conclusion is that Michael became mortal. In the ot--angels came as mortal--the bad ones came and had sex with mortals-the offspring were the nephlim. Some God sent and appeared as mortals. Like the ones who visited Lot.
When Jesus was raised he was raised back to a spirit, yet he could appear as a mortal at will.

 

[savagewind]

I don't know what they say on that. The only reasonable conclusion is that Michael became mortal. In the ot--angels came as mortal--the bad ones came and had sex with mortals-the offspring were the nephlim. Some God sent and appeared as mortals. Like the ones who visited Lot.
When Jesus was raised he was raised back to a spirit, yet he could appear as a mortal at will.

If Michael became mortal he is still a person who was Michael. So to God he is Michael AND Jesus. Angel AND mortal.

 

[Wharton]

If Jesus was mortal then God would have had to do away with or "kill" Michael. Where did Michael go according to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses?

He's a Transformer. Like the toys my kids played with.

 

[JFish123]

Despite all the evidence, the JW will believe the GB over the bible and rationalize it

 

[kjw47]

If Michael became mortal he is still a person who was Michael. So to God he is Michael AND Jesus. Angel AND mortal.

Yes he was named Jesus( Yeshoua) as a mortal.
We find the first ride of the white horse( righteous war) he is called Michael( war in heaven)--on the 2nd ride( his return at Har-mageddon) he is called Jesus.
And on the second ride 1Thess 4:16 teaches--upon his return he comes with the trumpet of God and with the voice of the archangel)----- because its his voice.

 

[JayJayDee]

Where does Jesus get his humanity?

There is something missing in your assessment of Jesus' humanity.

Most people assume that Jesus was immortal in heaven before his human birth, but the truth is no other being in existence possessed immortality except God himself originally.
Consider that the Creator had spirit beings in heaven ordered into rank and file. None of these spirit beings are immortal, even though they have no "natural" cause of death. "Mortal" means you can die......immortal means that you cannot go out of existence, from any cause.
The fact that both wicked angels and humans can be executed is proof that they are not immortal.
There is a difference between everlasting life and immortality.....something most people never consider.

Humans are a "lower" creation than angels but neither were given "the power of an indestructible life". How foolish would God be to create powerful creatures with free will and not be able to implement the death penalty if they abused it.

The devil has a destiny and he knows it...he and his hordes will end up in "the lake of fire" but this is not "hell"...it is a symbol of the "second death". Unlike the death we humans experience as a result of Adam's sin, this is a death from which there is no resurrection. Whoever goes into this symbolic place, will never be seen again.

The fact that some angels featured more prominently in the Bible record is interesting. Only two angels are named in scripture....Michael and Gabriel. Out of the millions of angels that the Bible says exist, why do you think only these two are named?
An angel who appeared to Manoah was asked for his name and he refused to give it. (Judges 13:15-18) Why? Humans have the propensity to idolise those they consider to be "gods" and who can be of service to them in some way. Angel worship is alive and well in this world as we speak.

Faithful angels have the ability to materialise human bodies, as the Bible indicates, but "the Word" who was "with God" in heaven, did not come to earth as a materialised being...why? Because part of his credentials as Messiah required that he fulfilled prophesy, an important part of his proof of identity meant that he had to be born of a human woman (a maiden) in a certain family line, in a small town called Bethlehem. He arrived, right on time as the scriptures said.

Where did Jesus get his humanity? From the operation of God's holy spirit in transferring the life force of his most trusted servant to the womb of the woman he chose to be his early mother.
The child was thus human in every respect. He was not God because God is immortal. Since an immortal being cannot die, Jesus could not have been God...his death would have been a ruse.

As a reward for their faithful service, God granted his son and those chosen to rule with him, an immortal life in heaven. Faithfulness and obedience to death is the requirement for being granted immortality....but only for these chosen ones.
The rest of obedient humanity will stay right here on earth under their rulership and all will return to God's original purpose as stated in Eden.

 

[Wharton]

Where did Jesus get his humanity? From the operation of God's holy spirit in transferring the life force of his most trusted servant to the womb of the woman he chose to be his early mother.
The child was thus human in every respect.

There you go. I've been waiting for that. JW Jesus DOES NOT SHARE our humanity. He just pops into Mary's womb. He's NOT CONCEIVED. Your Jesus can NEVER be a ransom for humanity.

 

[Wharton]

There is something missing in your assessment of Jesus' humanity.

Most people assume that Jesus was immortal in heaven before his human birth, but the truth is no other being in existence possessed immortality except God himself originally.
Consider that the Creator had spirit beings in heaven ordered into rank and file. None of these spirit beings are immortal, even though they have no "natural" cause of death. "Mortal" means you can die......immortal means that you cannot go out of existence, from any cause.
The fact that both wicked angels and humans can be executed is proof that they are not immortal.
There is a difference between everlasting life and immortality.....something most people never consider.

Humans are a "lower" creation than angels but neither were given "the power of an indestructible life". How foolish would God be to create powerful creatures with free will and not be able to implement the death penalty if they abused it.

The devil has a destiny and he knows it...he and his hordes will end up in "the lake of fire" but this is not "hell"...it is a symbol of the "second death". Unlike the death we humans experience as a result of Adam's sin, this is a death from which there is no resurrection. Whoever goes into this symbolic place, will never be seen again.

The fact that some angels featured more prominently in the Bible record is interesting. Only two angels are named in scripture....Michael and Gabriel. Out of the millions of angels that the Bible says exist, why do you think only these two are named?
An angel who appeared to Manoah was asked for his name and he refused to give it. (Judges 13:15-18) Why? Humans have the propensity to idolise those they consider to be "gods" and who can be of service to them in some way. Angel worship is alive and well in this world as we speak.

Faithful angels have the ability to materialise human bodies, as the Bible indicates, but "the Word" who was "with God" in heaven, did not come to earth as a materialised being...why? Because part of his credentials as Messiah required that he fulfilled prophesy, an important part of his proof of identity meant that he had to be born of a human woman (a maiden) in a certain family line, in a small town called Bethlehem. He arrived, right on time as the scriptures said.

Where did Jesus get his humanity? From the operation of God's holy spirit in transferring the life force of his most trusted servant to the womb of the woman he chose to be his early mother.
The child was thus human in every respect. He was not God because God is immortal. Since an immortal being cannot die, Jesus could not have been God...his death would have been a ruse.

As a reward for their faithful service, God granted his son and those chosen to rule with him, an immortal life in heaven. Faithfulness and obedience to death is the requirement for being granted immortality....but only for these chosen ones.
The rest of obedient humanity will stay right here on earth under their rulership and all will return to God's original purpose as stated in Eden.

If Jehovah is omnipotent, why does he need co-rulers?

 

[JayJayDee]

Despite all the evidence, the JW will believe the GB over the bible and rationalize it

Funny you should describe your own situation so well.

Despite all the evidence presented to you...you still choose to believe Christendom's version of Christianity and rationalise why your churches fail to preach...why they get involved in politics, wars and bloodshed....and why they tolerate pagan beliefs and festivals despite the fact that we are told to separate from all of that. (2 Cor 6:14-18)

You can't say we didn't try. The "weeds" choked out the truth so long ago that most wouldn't know it if it jumped up and bit them. You put so much trust in your own teachers, yet whine and complain about how much trust we put in ours.

It's time you looked at your own belief system and identified some home truths. Remove the rafter and all that....

 

[JayJayDee]

There you go. I've been waiting for that. JW Jesus DOES NOT SHARE our humanity. He just pops into Mary's womb. He's NOT CONCEIVED. Your Jesus can NEVER be a ransom for humanity.

Since he was born of a human mother, in the correct family line, in the designated place....he most definitely was human in every respect. As the last Adam, his life had to equal Adam's in value. This is why we had to be the "son of man" in order to pay the ransom. A perfect, sinless life had to be offered to atone for the perfect sinless life Adam lost for his children. That is Jehovah's law...."eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life...."

If Jehovah is omnipotent, why does he need co-rulers?

Jehovah chose Jesus as the king of his kingdom....Jesus is not omnipotent. Jehovah also chose those who will be "kings and priests" (Rev 20:6) with Christ (the appointed High Priest) in his kingdom.

Lose the trinity and everything makes sense.