Skwim
Veteran Member
These and other things you've said pretty much mark you as a JW, an apostate JW perhaps?
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JWs: looking for your input
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
sargent fury
Teacher of scripture, not religion
Apostate? Most certainly not. A witness for Jehovah? Absolutely.
Isaiah 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Okay, You're a
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sargent fury
Teacher of scripture, not religion
Not reluctant, not apathetic, and not bashful one. A very proud one. A very active one, and a very hard working one.Okay, You're aA reluctant, apathetic, or bashful one perhaps, but a
nonetheless.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Interesting in light of the fact that you list your religion as "no religion." In any case, now that you've established you're a member of the Jehovah's Witness, please explain the following statements you made about religion:
"Religion being the teaching of false things regarding God."
"Religions are also the greater part of Babylon the Great,"
"All religion teaches false things about God,"
"Religions are also the greater part of Babylon the Great,"
"All religion teaches false things about God,"
sargent fury
Teacher of scripture, not religion
Any religion created by man is false, and is in OPPOSITION to Jehovah God. They are Christendom, not Christianity. They falsely claim to be Christian. God's witnesses are not a religion as you know religion. They are "the one true faith" that Jesus taught and began in 33c.e., the night prior to his death. They are the Christian Congregation. It's NOT a religion, it's a faith in Jehovah, in Jesus, Jehovah's son, and in the Kingdom of the heavens, whose domain is Earth, ruled from heaven by Jesus for judgement day, a one thousand year period of resurrections, teaching, and restoring Earth to the paradise that Jehovah originally intended to extend fromt he garden in Eden. All such religions teach things that differ from what Jehovah teaches through His inspired word. All such religions, in fact ALL religions, teach things different from ALL other religions. That being the case, it isn't possible for more than one of them to be correct, except that none of them are. The only approved form of worship in Jehovah's eyes is the one true faith, the Christian Congregation that Jesus taught to the apostles and disciples that followed him. They were the first of the holy spirit annointed 144,000, who are the ONLY ones to go to heaven upon their death. Since we have no immortal soul, that belief being strictly pagan in origin, we go nowhere when we die except to our grave. Nothing survives death. Our thoughts perish. We are promised a resurrection after the final battle though. Those who are part of Jehovah's Earthly organization will be protected, all others will be destroyed. They've all been warned for two thousand years constantly, and most refuse the information. I hope this explains the statements you mentioned above.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Jehovah's Witnesses, is a bona fide religion (principally created by one man in the late 19th century). It calls itself a religion, it applied and received IRS recognition as a religion, and it's YOUR religion! So what's going on here? Care to clear this up?
I assume by "witnesses" you're referring to people such as yourself who belong to Jehovah's Witnesses, and perhaps a few others.
In as much as your a member of Jehovah's Witnesses, a bona fide religion, this obviously excludes you.
I know this is how the script goes: hitting many of the talking points and such, but to those of us who are familiar with various religious pitch lines it all sounds like just one more bad tin drum. First of all, we're not going to buy into any pretentious blather, and especially unreasoned pretentious blather; above all else its gotta make sense. And keep it relevant. No one wants their ear bent by pointless digressions. Next, you can't ignore questions, even if they're troublesome or embarrassing---this will destroy your creditability faster than anything else. Moreover, backed into a corner you can't let yourself go into attack mode to extricate yourself; it marks you as an real amateur. Lastly, you shouldn't expect everyone to receive you kindly and listen politely. Keep in mind that often you're coming to them, and essentially telling them that they're wrong. Very wrong. You may feel you're doing them a favor, but because they haven't asked you to tell them that they're wrong you're walking a real tightrope here. Would you like it if a stranger came to your door and told you that you're doing a terrible job of raising your children, and then they went about trying to convince how you should do it better or else such and such will befall your kids? No need to answer.
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Sapiens
Polymathematician
Clearly you have no understanding of the actual history or your belief system.
Skwim
Veteran Member
“I don’t know what all the fuss is about. Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t give to charity anyway. The Watchtower teaches you that the best charity you could be doing is saving people’s lives on the ministry, so your money and effort should go to that.”
source
source
,
shawn001
Well-Known Member
Right and they don't seem to do any charity work and claim a tax exempt status it seems.
cataway
Well-Known Member
do you mean like as in Hurricane Katrina ?
shawn001
Well-Known Member
Yes
Charity
"
: the act of giving money, food, or other kinds of help to people who are poor, sick, etc.; also : something (such as money or food) that is given to people who are poor, sick, etc.
: an organization that helps people who are poor, sick, etc.
: the organizations that help people in need"
.
Charity | Definition of charity by Merriam-Webster
cataway
Well-Known Member
I don't remember the numbers ,as in dollars and man hours spent on Hurricane Katrina relief aid , but I do remember being over whelmed by the numbers.
other than that Katrina thing ,I do know there has been different times were relief aid stations were setup and operating before the Red Cross had arrived on seen .
as a JW, i'm down right proud of what has been done to help others in their time of need .
other than that Katrina thing ,I do know there has been different times were relief aid stations were setup and operating before the Red Cross had arrived on seen .
as a JW, i'm down right proud of what has been done to help others in their time of need .
Skwim
Veteran Member
Unless I'm misreading you, they're certainly claiming all advantages that the status as a religion grants them.
FunctionalAtheist
Hammer of Reason
JW...the facts are inconsequential, here they are, and here is what they mean......that's all that matters!!!!!
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
To understand that one needs to stick with the Bible as the source of their understanding. Relying on rabbinical opinions from Talmuds or books which convey opinions by certain sects of the pharisees continued down to this day from the very ones who rejected Jesus will not help.
We need to first learn when the kingdom that man who died alongside Jesus asked about actually comes into existence. For there are two kingdoms and that criminal asked Jesus Christ concerning "your kingdom". Here is the second of those two kingdoms:
Daniel 2:44 "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever."
That kingdom which was yet to be set up would be the "your kingdom" of Jesus which the criminal asked about.
And here is what happens after all is finished and done:
1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
This second kingdom is a later cut out from off of God's heavenly kingdom per Daniel's phrophecy:
Daniel 2:45 "Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure."
That kingdom is not until here:
1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
So that "you kingdom" the criminal asked about would not even come to exist until this point in time when Christ would return to gather it together.
Until then, Christ sits or sat waiting at the right hand of God where he alone: "Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers [are] being made subject unto him." 1 Peter 3:22
Psalms 110:1 "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
Once all these existing kingdoms and all of Christ's enemies are become as a footstool for his feet, then it is that we find the following takes place:
Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
(As a side note, take note that this happens in between the second and third woes. That is important for other reasons, like what JWs have been saying about Christ's invisible parousia, just before his kingdom begins filling his kingdom with it's associate kings over this earth.)
Still, Jesus' reply is not about that criminal being a ruler with Christ in that kingdom he would eventually have, but was about that criminal's being with him in paradise.
Paradise is what that Christ's kingdom will rule over. As the last Adam (1 Corinthians 15:45) not only does he now impart the life to men that the first Adam lost his ability to impart, but Jesus and those associate kings with him continue the work of making this whole earth a paradise, just as the first Adam was supposed to have done.
That is the paradise Jesus told that criminal he would be with him in.
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
As this earth is being regenerated, resurrected ones will occupy the parts of it as they come to be regenerated. And so the resurrection of humans other than those associate kings will likely happen gradually over the course of the thousand year regeneration period.
Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
The resurrection of the unjust covers such as that criminal. In this life all that was required of the subjects under Christ's kingdom was to believe and put their faith in that hope. That show of faith is what Jesus rewarded wit the promise that the criminal would be there in the new earthly paradise wherein that criminal would have the same imputed righteousness by faith that we who believe have now. And just as we are not declared to be fully alive until we have finished our course faithfully, so too: Revelation 20:5a "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. ..."
These ones must pass the final test posed at Revelation 20:7-15.
I am not a JW, either. And so I know that if we let ourselves listen to the so very much chatter against them and their ideas we will only be overwhelmed and confused away from actually having been able to hear them. I cannot see being that unfair to ourselves.
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
Surely God's heavenly kingdom always was and did not have to be set up.
Daniel 2:44a "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom,...'
That is not referring to the Old kingdom of Israel which was already set up and kept proving unfaithful to God.