JW's Preach A Different Gospel

[Pegg]

Just joining with discussion. Yes, it is true that Mormons and JW teachings are absolutely different. But one thing that they are identical is the founder, a person who visited by an angel Moroni, which has to do with the Book of Mormons scriptures, and the other was the founder who (still) makes his own biblical interpretation. Why both had a person behind the beliefs?

The man who founded the Watchtower was not visited by an angel.
He had a desire to study the bible and he formed bible study groups with christians from many different denominations...they eventually formed the 'International Bible Students Association'
Their study led them to the realisation that hellfire and the trinity were false doctrines so they decided to publish there ideas.... Our founder was the one who invested all his money into establishing the magazines that we are still publishing today known as the Watchtower and Awake magazines.

Is it true that the reason why they founded this beliefs/religion is because of apostasy of Christianity?

Thanks

In studying the bible, the early bible students came to see the false teachings of their respective churches. The scriptures themselves foretold this apostasy.... the apostasy was not the purpose of starting the study groups....but it soon became a strong motivation to spread the message around the earth and inform christians of the churches false teachings.

 

[McBell]

Luk 6:37 (ESVST) 37 "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned.

In light of this verse, where do JW's stand?

In the sam boat as all other denominations who declare another Christian group is teaching a false gospel.

 

[JFish123]

The man who founded the Watchtower was not visited by an angel.
He had a desire to study the bible and he formed bible study groups with christians from many different denominations...they eventually formed the 'International Bible Students Association'
Their study led them to the realisation that hellfire and the trinity were false doctrines so they decided to publish there ideas.... Our founder was the one who invested all his money into establishing the magazines that we are still publishing today known as the Watchtower and Awake magazines.



In studying the bible, the early bible students came to see the false teachings of their respective churches. The scriptures themselves foretold this apostasy.... the apostasy was not the purpose of starting the study groups....but it soon became a strong motivation to spread the message around the earth and inform christians of the churches false teachings.

The scriptures for tell the coming of Apostasy. And your sure the Watchtowers view 1,800 years later isn't the Apostasy they were referring too? I mean, please think this over.

 

[Katzpur]

From the Mormon perspective... We believe that Jesus Christ did, in fact, establish His Church as part of His mortal ministry and that He ordained specific individuals to hold roles of authority in the administration of His Church, so that it could continue after His death and resurrection. We believe that, over time, men changed both the doctrines and the organizational structure of the Church He had established, and the authority once held by the Apostles was taken from the earth. We see this "apostasy" as having been prophesied by several of the Apostles themselves, especially by Paul. We also believe that a later "restoration" (or re-establishment) of of the original Church was prophesied to take place in the years prior to Christ's return and millennial reign. Since we believe that only Jesus Christ was in the position to re-establish the Church He had once set up, and that it was not something even the most well-meaning of men could do without His direct involvement, we believe in a complete "Restoration" as opposed to a mere "Reformation." When Joseph Smith was 14 years old, very concerned about the welfare of his soul, and frustrated because he was hearing so many different interpretations of the scriptures, he went directly to God in prayer to ask for guidance and direction in choosing which church to join. We believe that God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ appeared to him and told him to join no church at that time as none of them was the "original" Church Christ had established. We further believe that God used him as a latter-day prophet through whom the original doctrines, organization and authority were restored to the earth.

I just thought of something I wanted to add to this. A lot of time people will say, "How can you believe that? It's not in the Bible!" And it's truth that there are quite a few of our beliefs that are not specifically spelled out in the Bible. (The vast majority of our beliefs, though, do have biblical support, even though it may not be obvious through a cursory reading of the scriptures.) When you take a look at the centuries-long development of the Christian canon, though, it's totally understandable that not everything Jesus ever taught ended up being included in a book that human beings transcribed, translated and compiled. At any rate, we don't believe that everything God has ever said to mankind or wants us to know can be found within the pages of a single book. Some of our beliefs may not be "in the Bible," but when properly understood, they do not contradict anything the Bible has to say. It stands to reason that, if there was actually an apostasy, certain teachings would not only have been misinterpreted but lost entirely.

 

[McBell]

The scriptures for tell the coming of Apostasy. And your sure the Watchtowers view 1,800 years later isn't the Apostasy they were referring too? I mean, please think this over.

How does this not apply to every single denomination?
Seems to me at least one of the reasons a person chooses a specific denomination is because they do believe that their chosen denomination ISN'T the apostsy being referred to.

So we are right back to the most ignored point of this thread, how do you know your beliefs line up with the one true way of the one true god?

 

[Katzpur]

In the sam boat as all other denominations who declare another Christian group is teaching a false gospel.

Yeah, but it's entirely possible to say that other groups have some teachings that are in error, while still refraining from telling their members that "My Jehovah God is gonna annihilate you all someday because you're wicked!"

 

[Wharton]

@Katzpur

"I" didn't make those claims about L.D.S.
I merely copied and pasted an article.
I haven't much info on L.D.S. 'cept what I learn from you.
Got that please? "I" wasn't bashing L.D.S.


To whoever posted "why didn't you post the entire article?" (fishy I suspect)
Because I posting the link! I posted the link for anyone to read.
This thread has gone so far beyond boring. It's downright hateful.
Yawn. G'night.

Nice try. You posted more than the link. You pasted what you wanted, then left out all of the JW criticism in the article.

BTW, where are those "tons of changes" in Catholic doctrine you bragged about posting?

 

[McBell]

Yeah, but it's entirely possible to say that other groups have some teachings that are in error but still refrain from telling their members that "My Jehovah God is gonna annihilate you all someday because you're wicked!"

Agreed.
But until it can be shown which teachings are the one true teaching of the one true god, all everyone is doing is pointing out differences.
To claim one is wrong without being able to compare it to the one that is shown to be right.....

 

[JFish123]

In your estimation of things it probably appears so, but what are "the gates of hell" (hades)?

Please explain what you think that means.

And weren't the "weeds" of Jesus parable to grow in the world along with the wheat down to the time of the harvest? That means fake Christians have been in existence almost as long as Christianity itself. If the rot set in that long ago, how do you know that you aren't following the teachings of the weeds? We have cleaned up our worship and are obeying Christ's command to preach the good news of the kingdom in all the earth....what is Christendom doing? (2 Cor 6:14-18; 2 Thess 2:9-12)

Only in "the time of the end" were God's worshippers going to experience a 'cleansing, whitening and refining' according to Daniel's prophesy. (Dan 12:4, 9, 10) Why was a cleansing and refining necessary in this time period, do you think?
Why would the wicked not understand a thing?

From the outset, the weeds did what weeds do best...they took over and all but choked the wheat out of existence. They persecuted and murdered those who dared to question their wicked ways. Why do you think Jesus said that only a relative "few" find the gate leading to the cramped and narrow road to life? (Matt 7:13, 14) Most who are on the 'freeway' are too busy promoting their own beliefs to even notice that there is an off ramp. Jesus is standing there with a "sign" but they ignore him. (Matt 24:3)

At the end of the present age, Jesus will come as judge of all the world. The nations will be gathered and separated as either "sheep" or "goats". Do the goats know that they are? By their response, apparently not.
Do those who consider themselves "Christians" believe that they are the "wheat"? They do, and even offer to the judge their defence....but it is totally rejected. (Matt 7:21-23)

He is already the reigning king, but now he will extract from the world all who have misrepresented and blasphemed his Father.
In a world ruled by the devil...nothing is as it appears...that is what deception is.

1. Uh, what has Christendom been doing? Have the Watchtower blinded you so much? So called "Christendom" has been delivering the good news of Jesus for millennia. In the past couple hundred years, countless Christians have been burned, beaten, tortured, cannibilized and murdered for preaching to tribes no one knew existed until they showed up with the gospel, sacrificing their lives for the great commission. Your question devalues their lives and love for God. You only apparently see "Christendom" as Only the GB want you to see. That's real sad.
2. So your somewhat or all agreeing that for 1,800 years God was without a witness until the great Watchtower came to be. Wow. All the Great scholars who studied Hebrew and Greek for 1,800 years got it wrong but somehow the Watchtower got it right despite it failed predictions, it's mistranslated Bible among others?

 

[Katzpur]

The scriptures for tell the coming of Apostasy. And your sure the Watchtowers view 1,800 years later isn't the Apostasy they were referring too? I mean, please think this over.

While I agree that the Bible doesn't give any kind of a specific date for the apostasy, Paul, at least, was clearly concerned about the things he was witnessing in his day, as opposed to mentioning in passing something that was going to happen 1800 years in the future.

 

[Wharton]

The man who founded the Watchtower was not visited by an angel.
He had a desire to study the bible and he formed bible study groups with christians from many different denominations...they eventually formed the 'International Bible Students Association'
Their study led them to the realisation that hellfire and the trinity were false doctrines so they decided to publish there ideas.... Our founder was the one who invested all his money into establishing the magazines that we are still publishing today known as the Watchtower and Awake magazines.



In studying the bible, the early bible students came to see the false teachings of their respective churches. The scriptures themselves foretold this apostasy.... the apostasy was not the purpose of starting the study groups....but it soon became a strong motivation to spread the message around the earth and inform christians of the churches false teachings.

Geez, I study the bible too. And I've come to the conclusion that Arianism/Gnosticism were the great apostasy. And since JW's are gnostic Arians, where does that place them?

 

[McBell]

Geez, I study the bible too. And I've come to the conclusion that Arianism/Gnosticism were the great apostasy. And since JW's are gnostic Arians, where does that place them?

Before I answer your question, please be so kind as to answer one question for me...

Why should i take your beliefs any more seriously than their beliefs?​

 

[Pegg]

Geez, I study the bible too. And I've come to the conclusion that Arianism/Gnosticism were the great apostasy. And since JW's are gnostic Arians, where does that place them?

You put us wherever you want to put us.

The so-called catholic church fathers murdered fellow believers to
establish the trinity doctrine...poor old brother Arias was a victim of their apostasy and so are all who blindly follow there corrupt course.

 

[JFish123]

Before I answer your question, please be so kind as to answer one question for me...

Why should i take your beliefs any more seriously than their beliefs?​

You base it on the bible. So whose bible then right? Well, if a bible has been proven time and time again to misrepresent, and mistranslate to the point of even being deceptive to have the bible say what they wants it to say, then you can knock that bible off. Well, that's the NWT the Watchtower uses.

 

[JFish123]

Is Jesus God? 4 Minutes to find out...

 

[Wharton]

Before I answer your question, please be so kind as to answer one question for me...

Why should i take your beliefs any more seriously than their beliefs?​

You don't have to. I was just using the same kind of faulty logic that Pegg was using. Just because someone or a group of people study a bible, it doesn't make their interpretation correct.

 

[Wharton]

You put us wherever you want to put us.

Your doctrine and NWT makes you gnostic Arians, not me.

 

[McBell]

You base it on the bible. So whose bible then right? Well, if a bible has been proven time and time again to misrepresent, and mistranslate to the point of even being deceptive to have the bible say what they wants it to say, then you can knock that bible off. Well, that's the NWT the Watchtower uses.

What is your basis for comparison?
Can you show which belief is the one true belief of the one true god?
If not, what is your basis for comparison?

 

[JFish123]

What is your basis for comparison?
Can you show which belief is the one true belief of the one true god?
If not, what is your basis for comparison?

The basis of what the bible actually says. Is Jesus God or not? The bible says yes, Jehovahs witnesses say no.

 

[McBell]

The basis of what the bible actually says. Is Jesus God or not? The bible says yes, Jehovahs witnesses say no.

Yet you cannot prove any of the versions to be the one true version of the one true god.
So you are doing nothing more than revealing how their beliefs are different than yours.

Where is it you think the JWs got the idea that Jesus is not God if not the Bible?