JW's Preach A Different Gospel

[katiemygirl]

Exactly what is wrong with it....
Now if perhaps you would but your over inflated ego aside for a moment....

Shant be holding my breath

Now all you have to do is show that what you preach is the one true sermon from the one true god.
I notice you completely ignore the fact that all you are doing is pointing out the differences between your personal beliefs and the beliefs of JWs.


That is up for debate as well.
However, you further demonstrate the point of mine you flat out ignore.
Thank you.


Yet you throw such a hissy fit when someone disagrees with your personal interpretation of them....


Prove it.

Your post is offensive and completely uncalled for.

Cya.

 

[JayJayDee]

Yes. English is not my mother tongue. Sorry for my failure of re-phrasing and editing. I edited the message.

Thank you. I often have to edit auto-corrected words on my iPad because it will substitute a word I never intended. Very frustrating sometimes.

If Russell is not the founder, then who founded it?

We do not see Russell as a "founder", even though others might....we see Russell and his companions as the ones who fulfilled the prophesy in Daniel 12:4, 9, 10. There was to be a 'cleansing and refining' of Jehovah's people at "the time of the end". An abundance of knowledge was also to be made available at this time.
If there was no necessity to clean or refine God's worship, then why would God foretell it? Someone had to be the catalyst for this cleansing. Just as Luther was the catalyst for the Reformation, so Russell was used to begin cleaning up the erroneous doctrines that had crept into Christendom centuries ago. It was time to identify the "weeds" of Jesus' parable. But Russell was not alone and he never claimed to be any kind of prophet.

The Jehovah's Witnesses started in 1872 by Charles Taze Russell. He had a difficulty in dealing with the doctrine of eternal hell fire, and in his studies, he came to deny not only eternal punishment including the Trinity, deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit

Russell wasn't the only one to have problems with the teachings of hellfire and the trinity. These teachings misrepresent the Father as a fiendish torturer and they substitute another god in the place of the Father, who shares his godship with no one. He has no equal. Immortality of the soul was also found to be unscriptural.

At 18, he organized a Bible class in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

It was not so much "a Bible class" as an intensive investigation of the scriptures to see if Christendom's teaching stood up under scrutiny. They allowed the scriptures to speak for themselves, without the borrowed doctrines from pagan teachings that infiltrated when the foretold apostasy dominated the Christian faith.

In 1879 he sought to popularize his aberrant ideas on doctrine. He co-published The Herald of the Morning magazine with its founder, N. H. Barbour; and by 1884 Russell controlled the publication and renamed it The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom and founded Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society (now known as the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society).

His ideas proved that Christendom's teachings were a lie. They were "aberrant" only to the churches who were livid that anyone would challenge their core beliefs....let alone prove by the scriptures themselves that these teachings had no place in a Christian's faith. Russell was a gifted public speaker and he was also independently wealthy. He used his own funds to bring the WT Society into being. Christendom had powerful allies, so to become independent in his publishing, was a good move.

Russell's talks were broadcast on the radio and syndicated in some newspapers and he also took part in public debates with Christendom's clergy. People responded in much the same way as people responded to Jesus and his apostles. Some listened appreciatively and came to hear more, whilst others reacted with anger. These whipped up opposition. Jesus said this would happen (John 15:18-21)

The Watchtower Society was the a Bible Society dedicated to printing Bible literature to publicise the findings of Russell's group. It was met with great success. Apparently many people were not confident that Christendom's church system was teaching them God's word, but rather promoting "traditions of men" and collecting vast amounts of money.

Russell and his companions conducted their intense Bible research over many years, and slowly as their knowledge increased, more and more doctrines and teachings were eliminated as fraudulent. The Watchtower magazine was used to publicise their findings and has never missed a printing for over 100 years.

The first edition of The Watchtower magazine was only 6,000 copies each month. Today the Witnesses' publishing complex in Brooklyn, New York, churns out 100,000 books and 800,000 copies of its two magazines--daily!

The Watchtower today has a printing of around 53,000,000 copies each month in 240 languages. So when you consider that there are only 8,000,000 Witnesses....there are a lot of people who read our magazines each month. The Watchtower and Awake continue to be accepted and enjoyed by millions of people, world wide. The "good news of the kingdom" continues to be preached "in all the inhabited earth" as Jesus said it would.

Russell claimed that the Bible can only be understood according to his interpretations--a dangerous arrangement since he controlled what was written in the Watchtower magazine.

Since we believe that Russell's group were directed by God's spirit, as they continued to clean up Jehovah's worship, we trust that as the light on the path continued to get brighter, (Prov 4:18) that those who wanted to lead them down another path were rejected.

Human propensity to follow individuals was challenged when Russell died. God does not want us to follow any man. But God's truth has always been dispensed via human agency. What we have to do is gauge from the results of Russell's actions whether the teachings his group revealed from the scriptures via the Watchtower magazine and in the growing congregations of the Bible Students, stood the test of time. Gamaliel's words to the Jewish Sanhedrin give us a way to determine whether something is from God or not. (Acts 5:29-39) If these teachings were not from God, the group would fizzle out. But as can be observed, we have gone from strength to strength because we adhere to the teachings of the Christ...ALL of them, not just the ones we find convenient.

Our website jw.org has millions of visitors every day and thousands of Bible studies are requested. We personally reply to all requests....but in some lands there is actually a waiting list for Bible studies. These are free and they are conducted personally. All literature is free too. The truth will triumph over falsehood in the hearts of "worthy ones" as we "search" for them in our global preaching work, which Jesus said would be carried out in this "time of the end". (Matt 10:11-15; 24:14)

After the death of Russell on Oct. 31, 1916, a Missouri lawyer named Joseph Franklin Rutherford took over the presidency of the Watch Tower Society which was known then as the International Bible Students Association.

The "presidency" was as head of an organisation used to print and ship vast amounts of literature. The International Bible Students were the name by which Jehovah's Witnesses were known in those days. Just as today...Jehovah's Witnesses use the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to print their literature. This is a legal body which by law must have a president and a board of men responsible for its operation. Most people do not understand the distinction.

Joseph Rutherford was Russell's successor as president of the WTBTS. Having observed the emotional attachment that many had for Russell, (of itself not a bad thing) he tried to focus on the teachings, rather than the teachers. This prevented factionalism. The teachings are what have always united Jehovah's people. Unless we all subscribe to the same teachings, disunity will follow. We value our love and unity. We also see the value of obedience to the teachings of those who lead us. Apart from Jesus Christ, there is no one who is seen as our "Leader". The shepherds who are chosen to direct us are under the operation of God's spirit and we are told to obey their direction. (Heb 13:7, 17) Those who chafe under that direction will not stay....and frankly, we don't want them in our ranks causing division.

In 1931 he changed the name of the organization to "The Jehovah's Witnesses."

It wasn't Rutherford who adopted the name...it was the whole body of older men. Apart from Jesus, Christians have never been directed by one man. There was not one apostle....there were 12 who all shared in teaching the congregations.

Since our commission was to be "witnesses" of Jesus "to the most distant part of the earth", we saw the need to adopt a name that distinguished us as true witnesses of Jehovah. Why "Jehovah's" Witnesses and not "Jesus'" Witnesses?
We take our name from Isaiah 43:10. And we understand that Jesus is also a witness for his Father. In Rev 3:14 Jesus is called "the faithful and true witness" so we will imitate the Christ in being witnesses for Jehovah.

Is this in agreement with your knowledge about Charles Taze Russell and the history of JW?

Thank you for asking. It is no problem addressing things that are written in opposition to JW's. As long as they are not walls of cut and paste rubbish, borrowed from anti-JW sites, clarifications can make a world of difference to people's understanding about who we are and where we came from.

 

[psychoslice]

Here's how I see it.

If I preach the same gospel as Peter and Paul did in the book of Acts, I am not preaching MY truth. I am preaching the truth of the apostles as it was given to them directly from Jesus.

The gospel message was the same from Peter, Paul and others.in the NT.

So if you are interested in the truth, you'll read what these Holy Sppirit inspired men have to say.

Acts 3 (from Peter)
11 While the man held on to Peter and John, all the people were astonished and came running to them in the place called Solomon’s Colonnade. 12 When Peter saw this, he said to them: “Fellow Israelites, why does this surprise you? Why do you stare at us as if by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk? 13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go. 14 You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you. 15 You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. 16 By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus’ name and the faith that comes through him that has completely healed him, as you can all see.

17“ Now, fellow Israelites, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. 18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. 19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. 21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. 22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.

Acts 13 (from Paul)
26 “Brothers—you sons of Abraham, and also you God-fearing Gentiles—this message of salvation has been sent to us! 27 The people in Jerusalem and their leaders did not recognize Jesus as the one the prophets had spoken about. Instead, they condemned him, and in doing this they fulfilled the prophets’ words that are read every Sabbath.28 They found no legal reason to execute him, but they asked Pilate to have him killed anyway. 29 “When they had done all that the prophecies said about him, they took him down from the cross and placed him in a tomb. 30 But God raised him from the dead! 31 And over a period of many days he appeared to those who had gone with him from Galilee to Jerusalem. They are now his witnesses to the people of Israel.

32“We tell you the good news: What God promised our ancestors 33 he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:
“ ‘You are my son; today I have become your father.’
34 God raised him from the dead so that he will never be subject to decay. As God has said,“ ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’35 So it is also stated elsewhere:“ ‘You will not let your holy one see decay.’

36 “For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep, and was laid among his fathers and underwent decay;
37 but He whom God raised did not undergo decay. 38 “Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses. 40“ Therefore take heed, so that the thing spoken of in the Prophets may not come upon you:
41‘BEHOLD, YOU SCOFFERS, AND MARVEL, AND PERISH; FOR I AM ACCOMPLISHING A WORK IN YOUR DAYS,
A WORK WHICH YOU WILL NEVER BELIEVE, THOUGH SOMEONE SHOULD DESCRIBE IT TO YOU.’”

The gospel message is simple. Christ died on the cross but God raised him from the dead. The good news is that through faith in Jesus you can be freed from all sin. Take heed. Repent and turn to God.

That, my friend is the good news, the gospel of Jesus Christ!

That's your opinion, that's how you read the scriptures, if it was that simple, then tell me why there are so many Christians not agreeing with each other, and also could I ask if you belong to a organized religion ?.

 

[McBell]

Your post is offensive and completely uncalled for.

Cya.

Yes little rabbit.
run tail tucked.

Your fear of honest discussion is most revealing.
At least the JWs stand and defend themselves instead of your make disrespectful digs and run for cover tactic.

I disagree with most, if not all of their beliefs, but at least they have my respect for standing up for themselves.

 

[Yoshua]

Thank you. I often have to edit auto-corrected words on my iPad because it will substitute a word I never intended. Very frustrating sometimes.



We do not see Russell as a "founder", even though others might....we see Russell and his companions as the ones who fulfilled the prophesy in Daniel 12:4, 9, 10. There was to be a 'cleansing and refining' of Jehovah's people at "the time of the end". An abundance of knowledge was also to be made available at this time.
If there was no necessity to clean or refine God's worship, then why would God foretell it? Someone had to be the catalyst for this cleansing. Just as Luther was the catalyst for the Reformation, so Russell was used to begin cleaning up the erroneous doctrines that had crept into Christendom centuries ago. It was time to identify the "weeds" of Jesus' parable. But Russell was not alone and he never claimed to be any kind of prophet.



Russell wasn't the only one to have problems with the teachings of hellfire and the trinity. These teachings misrepresent the Father as a fiendish torturer and they substitute another god in the place of the Father, who shares his godship with no one. He has no equal. Immortality of the soul was also found to be unscriptural.


It was not so much "a Bible class" as an intensive investigation of the scriptures to see if Christendom's teaching stood up under scrutiny. They allowed the scriptures to speak for themselves, without the borrowed doctrines from pagan teachings that infiltrated when the foretold apostasy dominated the Christian faith.



His ideas proved that Christendom's teachings were a lie. They were "aberrant" only to the churches who were livid that anyone would challenge their core beliefs....let alone prove by the scriptures themselves that these teachings had no place in a Christian's faith. Russell was a gifted public speaker and he was also independently wealthy. He used his own funds to bring the WT Society into being. Christendom had powerful allies, so to become independent in his publishing, was a good move.

Russell's talks were broadcast on the radio and syndicated in some newspapers and he also took part in public debates with Christendom's clergy. People responded in much the same way as people responded to Jesus and his apostles. Some listened appreciatively and came to hear more, whilst others reacted with anger. These whipped up opposition. Jesus said this would happen (John 15:18-21)

The Watchtower Society was the a Bible Society dedicated to printing Bible literature to publicise the findings of Russell's group. It was met with great success. Apparently many people were not confident that Christendom's church system was teaching them God's word, but rather promoting "traditions of men" and collecting vast amounts of money.

Russell and his companions conducted their intense Bible research over many years, and slowly as their knowledge increased, more and more doctrines and teachings were eliminated as fraudulent. The Watchtower magazine was used to publicise their findings and has never missed a printing for over 100 years.



The Watchtower today has a printing of around 53,000,000 copies each month in 240 languages. So when you consider that there are only 8,000,000 Witnesses....there are a lot of people who read our magazines each month. The Watchtower and Awake continue to be accepted and enjoyed by millions of people, world wide. The "good news of the kingdom" continues to be preached "in all the inhabited earth" as Jesus said it would.


Since we believe that Russell's group were directed by God's spirit, as they continued to clean up Jehovah's worship, we trust that as the light on the path continued to get brighter, (Prov 4:18) that those who wanted to lead them down another path were rejected.

Human propensity to follow individuals was challenged when Russell died. God does not want us to follow any man. But God's truth has always been dispensed via human agency. What we have to do is gauge from the results of Russell's actions whether the teachings his group revealed from the scriptures via the Watchtower magazine and in the growing congregations of the Bible Students, stood the test of time. Gamaliel's words to the Jewish Sanhedrin give us a way to determine whether something is from God or not. (Acts 5:29-39) If these teachings were not from God, the group would fizzle out. But as can be observed, we have gone from strength to strength because we adhere to the teachings of the Christ...ALL of them, not just the ones we find convenient.

Our website jw.org has millions of visitors every day and thousands of Bible studies are requested. We personally reply to all requests....but in some lands there is actually a waiting list for Bible studies. These are free and they are conducted personally. All literature is free too. The truth will triumph over falsehood in the hearts of "worthy ones" as we "search" for them in our global preaching work, which Jesus said would be carried out in this "time of the end". (Matt 10:11-15; 24:14)



The "presidency" was as head of an organisation used to print and ship vast amounts of literature. The International Bible Students were the name by which Jehovah's Witnesses were known in those days. Just as today...Jehovah's Witnesses use the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to print their literature. This is a legal body which by law must have a president and a board of men responsible for its operation. Most people do not understand the distinction.

Joseph Rutherford was Russell's successor as president of the WTBTS. Having observed the emotional attachment that many had for Russell, (of itself not a bad thing) he tried to focus on the teachings, rather than the teachers. This prevented factionalism. The teachings are what have always united Jehovah's people. Unless we all subscribe to the same teachings, disunity will follow. We value our love and unity. We also see the value of obedience to the teachings of those who lead us. Apart from Jesus Christ, there is no one who is seen as our "Leader". The shepherds who are chosen to direct us are under the operation of God's spirit and we are told to obey their direction. (Heb 13:7, 17) Those who chafe under that direction will not stay....and frankly, we don't want them in our ranks causing division.



It wasn't Rutherford who adopted the name...it was the whole body of older men. Apart from Jesus, Christians have never been directed by one man. There was not one apostle....there were 12 who all shared in teaching the congregations.

Since our commission was to be "witnesses" of Jesus "to the most distant part of the earth", we saw the need to adopt a name that distinguished us as true witnesses of Jehovah. Why "Jehovah's" Witnesses and not "Jesus'" Witnesses?
We take our name from Isaiah 43:10. And we understand that Jesus is also a witness for his Father. In Rev 3:14 Jesus is called "the faithful and true witness" so we will imitate the Christ in being witnesses for Jehovah.



Thank you for asking. It is no problem addressing things that are written in opposition to JW's. As long as they are not walls of cut and paste rubbish, borrowed from anti-JW sites, clarifications can make a world of difference to people's understanding about who we are and where we came from.

Hi Jay,

Russell wasn't the only one to have problems with the teachings of hellfire and the trinity.

Then it is true that Russell have problem with that.

It was not so much "a Bible class" as an intensive investigation of the scriptures to see if Christendom's teaching stood up under scrutiny.

His ideas proved that Christendom's teachings were a lie. They were "aberrant" only to the churches who were livid that anyone would challenge their core beliefs....let alone prove by the scriptures themselves that these teachings had no place in a Christian's faith. Russell was a gifted public speaker and he was also independently wealthy. He used his own funds to bring the WT Society into being. Christendom had powerful allies, so to become independent in his publishing, was a good move.

So Charles Taze Russell and his group started the WT Society; before that, they scrutinized and do some investigation to come up with their doctrinal teachings.

Since we believe that Russell's group were directed by God's spirit, as they continued to clean up Jehovah's worship, we trust that as the light on the path continued to get brighter, (Prov 4:18) that those who wanted to lead them down another path were rejected.

Human propensity to follow individuals was challenged when Russell died. God does not want us to follow any man. But God's truth has always been dispensed via human agency. What we have to do is gauge from the results of Russell's actions whether the teachings his group revealed from the scriptures via the Watchtower magazine and in the growing congregations of the Bible Students, stood the test of time.

If there are anti-JW website, does it mean that all the things that they say and expose are wrong and not valid?

As I know, the JW churches discouraged and disallowed the members to look at the sites. Have you tried to check on the issues regarding all the expose messages from anti-JW sites?

Thanks

 

[JayJayDee]

Then it is true that Russell have problem with that.

Yes, and when I check the scriptures I see how right he was. There is no hellfire or trinity taught by Jesus.

So Charles Taze Russell and his group started the WT Society; before that, they scrutinized and do some investigation to come up with their doctrinal teachings.

Yes, there was no divine revelation, no angelic visitations, no visions....just stirrings within the hearts of these men to investigate the scriptures to see if what Christendom taught was true. What they found was shocking! None of the core doctrines of Christendom were scriptural. Jesus never taught a single one of them.

If there are anti-JW website, does it mean that all the things that they say and expose are wrong and not valid?

There are many bitter and twisted people out there who have a very low opinion of Jehovah's Witnesses. The ones who harbour the most animosity are ex-JW's with an axe to grind. They have one side of a story to tell, and we have no way to check the validity of what they say. If you have been in a court room and heard the testimony of one witness giving their side of a story, it can sound very damning, but when you hear the other side, things can appear to be very different. Anyone who wants to make judgments based on one side of a story are not exercising justice. No judge would be allowed to pass judgment on any case having heard only one side of a story. So I will let you be the judge as to how many of these people are just disgruntled because they either didn't get away with something or they wanted to dictate the beliefs of others contrary to the teachings that we uphold. There is a reason why they are no longer with us.....and now they have nowhere to go.

As I know, the JW churches discouraged and disallowed the members to look at the sites. Have you tried to check on the issues regarding all the expose messages from anti-JW sites?

Would I visit such sites...no way. I don't have to eat garbage to know it stinks. A good sob story will suck anyone in, but until you have heard the other side, God will judge the judges.

I hear enough apostate rubbish posted on these forums by lazy people who can't be bothered to do their own research.
They cut and paste walls of stuff which is supposed to convince people how dreadful we are. I would not be anywhere else. This brotherhood is like the ark to us. It is a place of spiritual safety where we can meet and enjoy worship together as Jehovah's United global family. People can say whatever they like, we expect the kind of hatred that Jesus and his disciples got....and most of it came from those who purported to worship the same God. (John 15:18-21)

As I said....would you want someone to judge you by the words of your enemy or would you rather they come and get to know you in person? How many bother to find out the truth? It's their loss. Who could sway the crowd who cried out for Jesus to be executed? (Matt 27:25)

In a world ruled by the devil....black can appear to be white and bad can appear to be good. Deception is everywhere...nothing is as it seems. People believed what was said about Jesus, but none of it was true. The lies spread about him by false witnesses was enough to convince the whole nation to turn against him as a false Messiah.
You think the devil can't do that again?

 

[katiemygirl]

That's your opinion, that's how you read the scriptures, if it was that simple, then tell me why there are so many Christians not agreeing with each other, and also could I ask if you belong to a organized religion ?.

Tell me what in the 2 passages I quoted, do you disagree with?

All I am saying is that if we preach what Peter and Paul preached, then we can't go wrong.

Now if you don't believe Peter and Paul's message was inspired by the Holy Spirit, then I understand why you would say it is my opinion. But if you believe the Bible is God's word, then you are disagreeing over nothing because I have not interpreted the two passages. I preach them straight up, no additions, subtractions, or changes of any kind.

So which is it? Are the Scriptures the inspired word of God or are they not?

 

[McBell]

Tell me what in the 2 passages I quoted, do you disagree with?

All I am saying is that if we preach what Peter and Paul preached, then we can't go wrong.

Now if you don't believe Peter and Paul's message was inspired by the Holy Spirit, then I understand why you would say it is my opinion. But if you believe the Bible is God's word, then you are disagreeing over nothing because I have not interpreted the two passages. I preach them straight up, no additions, subtractions, or changes of any kind.

So which is it? Are the Scriptures the inspired word of God or are they not?

Thank you further proving the point of mine you flat out ignore.

 

[katiemygirl]

QUESTIONS FOR JW'S

Where in Scripture does it say that Jesus' mediatorship is extended outward from the 144,000 anointed to the great crowd.

Where in Scripture does it say the New Covenant is between God and the 144,000 anointed ONLY?

Where in Scripture does it say that only the 144,000 are in heaven?

BOOK, CHAPTER, VERSE --- PLEASE!

 

[psychoslice]

Tell me what in the 2 passages I quoted, do you disagree with?

All I am saying is that if we preach what Peter and Paul preached, then we can't go wrong.

Now if you don't believe Peter and Paul's message was inspired by the Holy Spirit, then I understand why you would say it is my opinion. But if you believe the Bible is God's word, then you are disagreeing over nothing because I have not interpreted the two passages. I preach them straight up, no additions, subtractions, or changes of any kind.

So which is it? Are the Scriptures the inspired word of God or are they not?

Yes they are inspired from within, but not from a god in the sky, I share what is inspired from within myself also, I do see some good stuff in the scriptures but most of it is useless, and hence the reason why we have so many people arguing over how to read them. I myself don't really care how you read them, but when people make claims that their way is the right way and the only way, then I will question them, I do not like arrogance when it comes to spiritual matters, it doesn't belong there.

 

[katiemygirl]

Yes they are inspired from within, but not from a god in the sky, I share what is inspired from within myself also, I do see some good stuff in the scriptures but most of it is useless, and hence the reason why we have so many people arguing over how to read them. I myself don't really care how you read them, but when people make claims that their way is the right way and the only way, then I will question them, I do not like arrogance when it comes to spiritual matters, it doesn't belong there.

In other words, you don't believe the Scriptures are the inspired word of God. You think the Scriptures contain some good stuff, but for the most part, they are useless.

Enough said. Moving on.

 

[psychoslice]

In other words, you don't believe the Scriptures are the inspired word of God. You think the Scriptures contain some good stuff, but for the most part, they are useless.

Enough said. Moving on.

Could I ask you what do you think god is, is he a man, or women, and how does he talk to those who wrote the scriptures ?.

 

[JayJayDee]

Not sure if I am still on ignore.....but happy to answer for the benefit of others.

QUESTIONS FOR JW'S

Where in Scripture does it say that Jesus' mediatorship is extended outward from the 144,000 anointed to the great crowd.

This is where understanding covenants and how they were implemented, helps to understand how they work.

A mediator is defined as "one who interposes between two parties at variance to reconcile them; an intercessor; an intermediary agent, or go-between. In the Scriptures the term is applied to Moses and Jesus, the mediators respectively of the Law covenant and the new covenant.—Gal 3:19; 1Tim 2:5."

Moses was the mediator of the Law covenant which was made for the benefit of all Israel, but it was dispensed to the people by means of the ones appointed by God to administer it. The Temple arrangement with its High Priest and under priests, organised the people for an orderly means to offer sacrifices and to direct all aspects of their worship. This meant that the covenant benefitted the whole nation, but it was mediated to the people by the means that God approved and designated in his instruction.

Jesus is "the prophet like Moses" that was foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures. He is the Mediator of the "new covenant".

From the Insight Volumes........

"Parallels in Mediatorships. With respect to those brought into the newcovenant, we find a situation similar to that of ancient Israel. Christians are also sinners. Since the blood of animals cannot actually remove sins (Heb 10:4), a better sacrifice is necessary. Jesus Christ is that better sacrifice. (Heb 10:5-10) The writer of Hebrews expresses the matter in this way. After mentioning the sacrifices offered under the Law, he says: “How much more will the blood of the Christ . . . cleanse our consciences from dead works that we may render sacred service to the living God? So that is why he is a mediator of a new covenant, in order that, because a death has occurred for their release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, the ones who have been called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance. For where there is a covenant, the death of the human covenanter needs to be furnished. For a covenant is valid over dead victims, since it is not in force at any time while the human covenanter is living.”—Heb 9:11-17.

Paul goes on to point out that the former covenant was not inaugurated without blood. Moses, in negotiating it, saw that the sacrifices were made and sprinkled the blood on “the book of the covenant.” (Heb 9:18-28) Likewise Jesus Christ, God’s Mediator for the new covenant, after his sacrifice, appeared before Jehovah God with the value of his blood. Another likeness is that the Law covenant was made with a nation, not with individuals (Ex 24:7, 8), and so, too, the new covenant is made with God’s “holy nation,” “the Israel of God.”—1Pe 2:9; Ga 6:15, 16.

Those for Whom Christ Is Mediator. The apostle Paul declares that there is “one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all”—for both Jews and Gentiles. (1Ti 2:5, 6) He mediates the new covenant between God and those taken into the newcovenant, the congregation of spiritual Israel. (Heb 8:10-13; 12:24; Eph 5:25-27) Christ became Mediator in order that the ones called “might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance” (Heb 9:15); he assists, not the angels, but “Abraham’s seed.” (Heb 2:16) He assists those who are to be brought into the new covenant to be ‘adopted’ into Jehovah’s household of spiritual sons; these eventually will be in heaven as Christ’s brothers, becoming a part with him of the seed of Abraham. (Ro 8:15-17, 23-25; Ga 3:29) He has transmitted to them the promised holy spirit, with which spirit they are sealed and are given a token of what is to come, their heavenly inheritance. (2Co 5:5; Eph 1:13, 14) The total number of those who are finally and permanently sealed is revealed in Revelation 7:4-8 as 144,000.

Inauguration of the New Covenant. After Jesus died and was resurrected, he entered into heaven to appear before the person of God to present his offering, the benefits of which go first to those taken into the newcovenant. (Heb 9:24) Here he acted both as High Priest and Mediator. In harmony with the pattern followed at the inauguration of the Law covenant, Jesus Christ presented the value of his sacrifice before God in heaven (even as Moses sprinkled the blood on the book of the Law [for God was not personally present there]). Then, on Pentecost day, 33 C.E., Jesus poured out the holy spirit from God on the first ones brought into the new covenant, about 120 persons. Later that day about 3,000, Jews and proselytes, were added to the congregation. (Ac 1:15; 2:1-47; Heb 9:19) And just as Moses read the Law to the people, so Jesus Christ clearly enunciates the terms of the new covenant and its laws to those sharing in it.—Ex 24:3-8; Heb 1:1, 2; Joh 13:34; 15:14; 1Jo 5:1-3.

Holding the offices of Mediator and High Priest, Jesus Christ, being immortal, is always alive and able to plead for those of spiritual Israel approaching God through him, so that he can mediate the new covenant until those persons receiving his mediatorial assistance are saved completely. (Heb 7:24, 25) He is able to conduct matters to the successful completion of the new covenant. Those in the covenant are eventually installed in the heavenly priesthood as underpriests with Christ, their great High Priest.—Re 5:9, 10; 20:6."

Mediator — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Where in Scripture does it say the New Covenant is between God and the 144,000 anointed ONLY?

There are parties to the covenant and beneficiaries. Those taken into the new covenant are those who will rule with Christ in heaven. The Bible gives them a finite number. (Rev 7:3, 4; 14:1-3) These are the only ones who are parties to the covenant...they, as "kings and priests" (Rev 20:6) will administer the benefits of the kingdom's rule to the earthly subjects of God's kingdom. These are seen as a "great crowd" also standing before God's throne who are attributing salvation to God and the Lamb. (Rev 7:9, 10, 13, 14) These are the survivors of the "great tribulation".
Everyone benefits from the direction of Christ's chosen heavenly rulers. He directs them...they direct us. This has always been the case. Not everyone in Israel could be either a priest or a king.

Where in Scripture does it say that only the 144,000 are in heaven?

Everything that was literal in Israel was a pictorial example of what was to come in heaven.
The temple and priesthood are no longer located on earth...there is a heavenly Mount Zion where God's spiritual temple is located. (Rev 14:1) God's presence in his earthly temple was indicated by the Shekinah light in the Most Holy compartment, where only the High Priest was allowed to enter. His presence now is in person and our High Priest has entered with the value of his blood "once for all time" on our behalf. Only the priests were allowed to enter specified areas of the temple to offer sacrifices and to perform their duties. The people had their specified areas too, but all benefitted from the arrangement. There was no jealousy on the part of the people because they were not priests or because they were not permitted entry to certain areas of the temple, because those members of the priesthood were born into the only tribe from which the priests could be chosen. This was God's arrangement and the people knew their place in it. Any who wanted to usurp their position and alter this arrangement in any way were shown in no uncertain terms that they were going against the arrangement of God.

Since Rev 20:6 tells us that those chosen to rule with Jesus will be "kings and priests"......kings need subjects and priests need sinners for whom to perform their duties, these cannot be in heaven. Those who go to heaven leave their sinful flesh behind, so they no longer need priests...and kings do not rule over other kings.
Rev 21:1-6 tells us that the kingdom (new Jerusalem) is seen coming down from heaven to extend its rulership to earthly subjects. Under the rulership of the kingdom, all will go back to the Edenic conditions that Adam and his wife once enjoyed. What they lost for their children, Christ came to buy back for us.

BOOK, CHAPTER, VERSE --- PLEASE!

Hebrews 9:1-28

 

[Wharton]

Holding the offices of Mediator and High Priest, Jesus Christ, being immortal, is always alive and able to plead for those of spiritual Israel approaching God through him, so that he can mediate the new covenant until those persons receiving his mediatorial assistance are saved completely.

But, but he died and went poof.

 

[JFish123]

Here is the Trinity explained

 

[Yoshua]

Yes, and when I check the scriptures I see how right he was. There is no hellfire or trinity taught by Jesus.

Yes, there was no divine revelation, no angelic visitations, no visions....just stirrings within the hearts of these men to investigate the scriptures to see if what Christendom taught was true. What they found was shocking! None of the core doctrines of Christendom were scriptural. Jesus never taught a single one of them.

Hi Jay,

As we know, Russell and his group did somewhat like a research, surveys or studies to see what the Christendom was. They conclude that the core doctrines of Christendom were non-scriptural. If Russell is not a prophet, not a teacher but a public speaker, then what makes them to be the authority to conclude their findings were valid?

There are many bitter and twisted people out there who have a very low opinion of Jehovah's Witnesses. The ones who harbour the most animosity are ex-JW's with an axe to grind. They have one side of a story to tell, and we have no way to check the validity of what they say. If you have been in a court room and heard the testimony of one witness giving their side of a story, it can sound very damning, but when you hear the other side, things can appear to be very different. Anyone who wants to make judgments based on one side of a story are not exercising justice. No judge would be allowed to pass judgment on any case having heard only one side of a story. So I will let you be the judge as to how many of these people are just disgruntled because they either didn't get away with something or they wanted to dictate the beliefs of others contrary to the teachings that we uphold. There is a reason why they are no longer with us.....and now they have nowhere to go.

Did they walk away because of something or they are awakened to the truth about JW organization?

Would I visit such sites...no way. I don't have to eat garbage to know it stinks. A good sob story will suck anyone in, but until you have heard the other side, God will judge the judges.

I hear enough apostate rubbish posted on these forums by lazy people who can't be bothered to do their own research. They cut and paste walls of stuff which is supposed to convince people how dreadful we are. I would not be anywhere else. This brotherhood is like the ark to us. It is a place of spiritual safety where we can meet and enjoy worship together as Jehovah's United global family. People can say whatever they like, we expect the kind of hatred that Jesus and his disciples got....and most of it came from those who purported to worship the same God. (John 15:18-21)

As I said....would you want someone to judge you by the words of your enemy or would you rather they come and get to know you in person? How many bother to find out the truth? It's their loss. Who could sway the crowd who cried out for Jesus to be executed? (Matt 27:25)

In a world ruled by the devil....black can appear to be white and bad can appear to be good. Deception is everywhere...nothing is as it seems. People believed what was said about Jesus, but none of it was true. The lies spread about him by false witnesses was enough to convince the whole nation to turn against him as a false Messiah.
You think the devil can't do that again?

If that will be the case, then you did not have a freedom to study scriptures by your own, but being dependent on the source given by Watchtower?

Thanks

 

[JayJayDee]

As we know, Russell and his group did somewhat like a research, surveys or studies to see what the Christendom was.

They undertook a careful study of the scriptures to see if Christendom's doctrines stood up to scrutiny. They basically dismissed all prior knowledge and started from scratch. They allowed the Bible itself to teach them under the direction of God's spirit.
From their studies, they concluded that the core doctrines of Christendom were not scriptural. The 'cleansing and refining' foretold by Daniel, had begun......but like all refining work, it was a process of bringing the impurities to the surface and eliminating them, one by one.

If Russell is not a prophet, not a teacher but a public speaker, then what makes them to be the authority to conclude their findings were valid?

As I have stated, we believe that these men fulfilled the scriptures stating that God's worship would be cleansed and refined at "the time of the end". (Dan 12:4, 9, 10) Knowledge would become abundant at this time but the wicked, who refused the cleansing and the knowledge would understand nothing.

Just as Jesus provided the knowledge concerning God's truth to his chosen ones back in the first century, so he does today. Jesus said we would know his true disciples by the "fruits" they produce.
As a united brotherhood we follow Jesus' teachings in all things. We don't just choose the parts that are confortable and dismiss the rest. We do what Jesus commanded....something the churches do not do in any united fashion on a global scale. (Matt 10:11-15; 28:19, 20)

None of the apostles were teachers or public speakers either at first. But under Christ's direction, they became excellent teachers. Obviously some had more talents than others because out of the 12, only a few were prominent in speaking. God will utilise whatever natural abilities we have to further the good news of his kingdom.

All of Jehovah's Witnesses are students of God's word. We all train to be preachers and teachers, but you will find no diplomas hanging on our walls.....there were none on the walls of the apostles either. Jesus put no store in the higher learning of the Pharisees and purposely chose humble "uneducated" men to bear his message to the world.

Did they walk away because of something or they are awakened to the truth about JW organization?

And what is the truth about the JW organization? What was the truth about Jesus in the first century? Did anyone care to know, or were they happy to listen to his enemies discredit him and assassinate his character? We expect what is dished up about us....(John 15:18-21) If people said good things about us we would think we were doing something wrong.

Some walked away from the organization when they found themselves chafing under the Bible principles that all of JW's live by. Some were disfellowshipped for wrong conduct and became disgruntled. Others wanted to dictate changes in our beliefs and left because they couldn't get their way. Whatever reason is between them and God. Like I said...one side of a story is no story at all. Just ask how many innocent men there are behind bars. You have no way to verify any of their stories. And if you have ever been on the opposing side of an "ex" you will know how nasty it can get. They will paint you in the worst possible light. Let them.

If that will be the case, then you did not have a freedom to study scriptures by your own, but being dependent on the source given by Watchtower?

This argument makes me smile. What makes you think that the first Christians were free to make up their own minds about the scriptures? They had one source of information and one only. Anyone who tried to introduce their own ideas was excommunicated.

2 Pet 8-11...."Look out for yourselves, so that you do not lose the things we have worked to produce, but that you may obtain a full reward. Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works."

There is no room for independent thinking.....that is the lure satan used to deceive the woman. We accept that what we are taught is the truth from the ones appointed as "the faithful and wise slave". Since Jesus appointed them, we follow their teachings. (Matt 24:45; Heb 13:7, 17)
No one is forced to believe what we believe, nor are they forced to remain in our ranks against their will. If you don't want to abide by the rules we follow, then don't become a JW in the first place. It's that simple. If you break the rules and want to cause trouble in our ranks...you will be expelled, just as Paul said in 1 Cor 5:9-13.

Those who wanted to worship Jehovah in the days of ancient Israel, had to come into Jehovah's nation...they had to live and worship as Jews. No one was free to introduce their own ideas into God's worship. When Jews came to accept Jesus as Messiah, they had to leave their old way of worship with its sacrifices and temple and priesthood, and adopt the new way with Christ as leader. They were not free to bring their own ideas with them either. They did not dictate to the apostles about what to teach. There was "one Lord, one faith, one baptism". That is the way it is with us.

 

[katiemygirl]

QUESTIONS FOR JW'S

Where in Scripture does it say that Jesus' mediatorship is extended outward from the 144,000 anointed to the great crowd.

Where in Scripture does it say the New Covenant is between God and the 144,000 anointed ONLY?

Where in Scripture does it say that only the 144,000 are in heaven?

BOOK, CHAPTER, VERSE --- PLEASE!

 

[Shak34]

QUESTIONS FOR JW'S

Where in Scripture does it say that Jesus' mediatorship is extended outward from the 144,000 anointed to the great crowd.

Where in Scripture does it say the New Covenant is between God and the 144,000 anointed ONLY?

Where in Scripture does it say that only the 144,000 are in heaven?

BOOK, CHAPTER, VERSE --- PLEASE!

JayJayDee answered you in post 881, just in case you wanted to read it. She said she might be on ignore.

 

[Pegg]

Yes little rabbit.
run tail tucked.

Your fear of honest discussion is most revealing.
At least the JWs stand and defend themselves instead of your make disrespectful digs and run for cover tactic.

I disagree with most, if not all of their beliefs, but at least they have my respect for standing up for themselves.

Oh dear... hope you're not developing a soft spot for us