Karaites

[xkatz]

I am wondering what my fellow Jews think of Karaites and Karaite Judaism...?

 

[Levite]

I am wondering what my fellow Jews think of Karaites and Karaite Judaism...?

They should live and be well, but we don't hold by that.

Karaism sputtered out of existence when the Tzedukim failed to survive the loss of the Bet Hamikdash (Second Temple), and it was only re-created by Anan ben David out of spite, in his bitterness over his failure to become a Gaon. That is not Torah, that is just very successful miniut (sectarianism).

Judaism is Rabbinic Judaism. We don't hold by Karaite teachings, any more than we hold by Shomroni (Samaritan) teachings.

Karaites and Samaritans are our cousins, not our brothers. That's just the way it goes.

 

[David_2010]

If it's ok to ask, what is Karaite Judaism?.

Also, who are the Samaritans?, I've heard of them before, do they still exist (I know "the good Samaritan" makes an appearance with Jesus, but, are they still around)?, how do they differ to regular Judaism?.

 

[xkatz]

If it's ok to ask, what is Karaite Judaism?

The Karaites reject oral law.

Also, who are the Samaritans?, I've heard of them before, do they still exist (I know "the good Samaritan" makes an appearance with Jesus, but, are they still around)?, how do they differ to regular Judaism?.

They are a sister religion. It is very similar to Judaism but far more ethnocentric and they have their own Torah. It has only 700+ members in Israel and Palestine.

 

[Levite]

If it's ok to ask, what is Karaite Judaism?.

The Karaites trace themselves to the Second Temple Tzedokim (Saducees), though in truth, Tzedoki Judaism barely survived the fall of the Second Temple, and basically became extinct within fifty or a hundred years of its ruin. However, in 8th century Babylonia, there was a man named Anan ben David, who was a brilliant scholar, and relatively wealthy also. He was in contention to become one of the Geonim, the heads of the Two Yeshivot at Sura and Pumbedita, which at that time were the center of the Jewish world, just as the Geonim were considered the supreme halakhic arbiters of that time. Anan was rejected, and so he set his sights on a different position: Reish Galuta (Exilarch), the nominal head of the Jewish Community in Exile (a position long since vanished, of course). After a bit of wrangling, he failed to secure this position also, and in frustrated rage, he formed his own sect of followers, initially called Ananim, who proclaimed him both Reish Galuta and what amounted to a Gaon. His claim to be called Reish Galuta never amounted to much, but he did gather many followers, since chief in his teachings was a rejection of the Oral Torah in its entirety, and the creation of a new system of interpreting the Written Torah, which, though more severe in some aspects, was far more permissive in others.

This division led to a great civil strife and schism within the Jewish community, which persisted for several centuries, with some fairly unfortunate-- even sometimes shameful-- deeds perpitrated on either side.

Today, there are only a handful of Karaites left-- nobody seems to agree on an accurate count, but they seem to range in number from less than 10,000 to around 40,000. I have seen several sets of statistics, and the lower numbers seem more reliable to me. They still reject the Oral Torah, and their Judaism is deeply different than ours.

Also, who are the Samaritans?, I've heard of them before, do they still exist (I know "the good Samaritan" makes an appearance with Jesus, but, are they still around)?, how do they differ to regular Judaism?.

There are, in fact, still Samaritans around. There are maybe four hundred families or so-- probably less than a thousand souls all told. They live in the Judean Hills in Israel and the West Bank, for the most part, still mostly shepherds and goatherds.

They have a variant text of the Torah, which is slightly different than the Masoretic version, although it is quite close, and they still use a form of the Ancient Hebrew alphabet (the one we think of as the Hebrew alphabet today was actually invented in Babylonia) to write it in. Their own Hebrew is linguistically divergent from modern Hebrew (although, of course, living where they do, nearly all of them speak modern Hebrew as well), and though they accept the Written Torah (according to their manuscript tradition), they do not count the rest of the Tanakh to be canon, although they are familiar with the books, and study them. Nor do they accept any part of the Oral Torah. They hold that their tradition is more ancient and more correct than ours, and hold to it. They even still offer sacrifices.

 

[khazaria]

Karaite religious communities today mainly exist in the United States, Israel, the Crimea, and Lithuania. The community of Galician Karaites in western Ukraine is nearly extinct with, if I recall, just 2 members left.

I have developed friendships with a number of Karaites. There are interesting cultural differences between, for instance, Egyptian Karaites and Crimean Karaites. Yet they are all descended from the people of Israel. There are some great writings about Karaites in English, Hebrew, and Russian. I particularly recommend books and articles by Valentin Kefeli, Dan Shapira, and Mikhail Kizilov. I also recommend Daniel Lasker's article "Karaite Judaism" in The Encyclopaedia of Judaism, Volume 4 (published by Brill) for a succinct overview.

 

[David_2010]

The Karaites reject oral law.

They are a sister religion. It is very similar to Judaism but far more ethnocentric and they have their own Torah. It has only 700+ members in Israel and Palestine.

The Karaites trace themselves to the Second Temple Tzedokim (Saducees), though in truth, Tzedoki Judaism barely survived the fall of the Second Temple, and basically became extinct within fifty or a hundred years of its ruin. However, in 8th century Babylonia, there was a man named Anan ben David, who was a brilliant scholar, and relatively wealthy also. He was in contention to become one of the Geonim, the heads of the Two Yeshivot at Sura and Pumbedita, which at that time were the center of the Jewish world, just as the Geonim were considered the supreme halakhic arbiters of that time. Anan was rejected, and so he set his sights on a different position: Reish Galuta (Exilarch), the nominal head of the Jewish Community in Exile (a position long since vanished, of course). After a bit of wrangling, he failed to secure this position also, and in frustrated rage, he formed his own sect of followers, initially called Ananim, who proclaimed him both Reish Galuta and what amounted to a Gaon. His claim to be called Reish Galuta never amounted to much, but he did gather many followers, since chief in his teachings was a rejection of the Oral Torah in its entirety, and the creation of a new system of interpreting the Written Torah, which, though more severe in some aspects, was far more permissive in others.

This division led to a great civil strife and schism within the Jewish community, which persisted for several centuries, with some fairly unfortunate-- even sometimes shameful-- deeds perpitrated on either side.

Today, there are only a handful of Karaites left-- nobody seems to agree on an accurate count, but they seem to range in number from less than 10,000 to around 40,000. I have seen several sets of statistics, and the lower numbers seem more reliable to me. They still reject the Oral Torah, and their Judaism is deeply different than ours.



There are, in fact, still Samaritans around. There are maybe four hundred families or so-- probably less than a thousand souls all told. They live in the Judean Hills in Israel and the West Bank, for the most part, still mostly shepherds and goatherds.

They have a variant text of the Torah, which is slightly different than the Masoretic version, although it is quite close, and they still use a form of the Ancient Hebrew alphabet (the one we think of as the Hebrew alphabet today was actually invented in Babylonia) to write it in. Their own Hebrew is linguistically divergent from modern Hebrew (although, of course, living where they do, nearly all of them speak modern Hebrew as well), and though they accept the Written Torah (according to their manuscript tradition), they do not count the rest of the Tanakh to be canon, although they are familiar with the books, and study them. Nor do they accept any part of the Oral Torah. They hold that their tradition is more ancient and more correct than ours, and hold to it. They even still offer sacrifices.

Thanks for telling me, I didn't know all that, and, that's interesting about the sacrifice part, I find that quite interesting. Do the Samaritans accept converts, or are they more similar to religions like the Yezidi, and Zoroastrians, where they don't accept outsiders?.

Thanks again .

David.

 

[xkatz]

Do the Samaritans accept converts, or are they more similar to religions like the Yezidi, and Zoroastrians, where they don't accept outsiders?

They don't accept converts.

 

[khazaria]

xkatz claimed "They don't accept converts."

Now they do. Several Ashkenazi Jewish women have been allowed to marry Samaritan men because they agreed to follow Samaritanism.

And a couple of Ukrainian women (presumably former Christians or atheists) did the same, as did former Muslim women from Turkey and Azerbaijan - read about them in Martin Chulov's article "Samaritans look further afield to find their future" in The Australian, February 03, 2007.

The Samaritan authorities had to allow converts into their communities because their genetic pool had been depleted from too much inbreeding over the centuries.

 

[xkatz]

xkatz claimed "They don't accept converts."

Now they do. Several Ashkenazi Jewish women have been allowed to marry Samaritan men because they agreed to follow Samaritanism.

And a couple of Ukrainian women (presumably former Christians or atheists) did the same, as did former Muslim women from Turkey and Azerbaijan - read about them in Martin Chulov's article "Samaritans look further afield to find their future" in The Australian, February 03, 2007.

The Samaritan authorities had to allow converts into their communities because their genetic pool had been depleted from too much inbreeding over the centuries.

When did they begin accepting converts?

 

[Levite]

Do the Samaritans accept converts, or are they more similar to religions like the Yezidi, and Zoroastrians, where they don't accept outsiders?

They haven't really been in the habit of accepting converts up until recently. But they have begun cautiously accepting a few, although, if I am not mistaken, the converts basically had to agree to live in the Samaritan community, and cease following non-Samaritan Jewish interpretations, halakhah, and customs.

 

[xkatz]

The main topic though isn't about Samaritans, it's about Karaites. Anyone got anything else to say about them?

 

[Ben Masada]

I am wondering what my fellow Jews think of Karaites and Karaite Judaism...?

I am not a Karaite but a praise their deep nowledge of the written Scriptures, especially the written Torah, whiose lack of knowledge by main stream Judaism is too shouting. No wonder Chritians whose mission is to proselytize Jews find much more success among main stream Judaism and absolutely zero among Karaites. Mainstream Judaism trust in those in the past who studied the Scriptures and wrote down their commntaries, and content themselves with whatever they thought was true and abstain themselves from studying our Scriptures. They act like Caholics whose opinion is that if the Church says so, then, so is the truth. They lack therefore, the spirit of research, and accept as the last word anything the sages decided it should be.