Keeping Silent

[Quintessence]

Many who identify with contemporary Paganism engage in practices or ideologies that are unusual with respect to the cultural norms we are surrounded by. This makes talking about many of the things we do or believe with outsiders difficult, but also sometimes dangerous. In opening our mouths and speaking our hearts, we risk disapproval open mockery, or worse. This is, perhaps, why the idea of "keep silent" is a component of some traditions within the Pagan umbrella.

But keeping silent is hard. When we love something, we want to share it with others and spread the joy. How do you go about sharing small bits of your joys with outsiders in a way that doesn't cause interpersonal catastrophe? How do you talk to others about polytheism, the otherworlds, magic, and more? Are there certain things you never discuss out of fear of mockery or misunderstanding?

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There were two things that really appealed to me about contemporary Paganism when I first learned it was a thing. One, I really liked the focus on nature, especially the idea that nature and its aspects are gods or worthy of worship. But the other thing was that I really liked the acceptance of things mystical and otherworldly. Those are aspects of my life that, for the most part, I kept (and still keep) very closely guarded due to mainstream cultural intolerance. To find a community that was more open-minded about these things was a welcome revelation indeed! Did any of you have a similar experience? Hey, even if it was completely different, I like stories.

 

[1137]

I run in some weird circles so it's not hard to find someone to express myself to. The internet is awesome with that, I have many friends who are professors of philosophy/religion and talk about it, and my closest friends and girlfriend, as well as my mother, have no issues talking about it and take great interest. Outside of those situations, there's not much of a need to discuss my beliefs, like at work.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I tend not to discuss too often the folkloric inclusion of creatures considered "mythical" such as vampires, elves, faerie, and yes, even dragons. Even though they have places within Paganism and various practices, all too often the conversation tends to turn towards people claiming to actually be these creatures, or manipulating language so that they can claim to be these things within "the laws of physics".

I dread "The Astral Plane" in discussions. It's the "get out of jail free card", especially when someone makes a claim that's just physically impossible. Only after being called on their fantasy, they then remember to say that it took place on the Astral Plane, where all things are possible, no one can be wrong, and all the gods and goddesses are your personal fan club and think you're the best thing since decapitated gorgons.

I mean, I try to keep an open mind, but some claims just shoot right over the moon. I've dealt with too many kids who make claims of Harry Potter magic, or being a werewolf or vampire, or even claims of being mermaids, phoenixes, and all manner of fantastic beasts to have much patience for them anymore.

 

[Erebus]

I start with the basic premise of "I worship nature" and gauge reactions from there. Generally that's something that theists and atheists of most varieties can at least partially understand if not necessarily agree with. For example, a lot of atheists appreciate the focus on something "solid" that they can experience themselves. Theists on the other hand are often attracted to the more poetic or romantic aspects of nature worship, perhaps perceiving it to be experiencing their god/s in some manner.

It's usually only the most dogmatic people who can't tolerate it when discussing face to face. I say "face to face" because my suspicion is that people will generally behave themselves better in that situation than they will be online. There's something about being well out of convenient punching range that brings out the worst in people. Can't imagine why.

The bits I tend to keep more to myself are largely those that fall under one of two categories:

1. The parts that take me 20 minutes and a few edits to express in written format. I'm too easily distracted in spoken conversation to properly deal with those things.

2. The ugly side of nature. Some people are deeply uncomfortable with accepting things like death and illness as a necessary and inevitable, if often unpleasant, part of existence.

 

[Quintessence]

2. The ugly side of nature. Some people are deeply uncomfortable with accepting things like death and illness as a necessary and inevitable, if often unpleasant, part of existence.

That's an interesting one I hadn't thought about, but now that you mention it, I have observed the same from time to time. When I mention to people that "all is gods" to me, they don't usually follow that train of thought to realize that by "all is gods" I also mean things that are adversarial to human existence and survival. When they do, the nature of the conversation tends to shift. They have trouble understanding why anyone would revere and honor something like war, violence, plague, etc. I'm not sure I've had a good, drawn out conversation about that with someone.

 

[Quintessence]

I mean, I try to keep an open mind, but some claims just shoot right over the moon. I've dealt with too many kids who make claims of Harry Potter magic, or being a werewolf or vampire, or even claims of being mermaids, phoenixes, and all manner of fantastic beasts to have much patience for them anymore.

Stuff like that doesn't bother me, I guess. In a way, I envy them. The way in which these narratives inspire meaningfulness in their lives is amazing to see, and it's something I used to be able to do more easily. They're able to journey into places I don't know if I can ever manage to wander into again. Cultural pressures shove us all very strongly in the direction of rejecting the power of imagination and flights of fancy, unfortunately. Those who resist that pressure? I admire something of that, provided the person looks well-adjusted and happy in their lives.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

That's an interesting one I hadn't thought about, but now that you mention it, I have observed the same from time to time. When I mention to people that "all is gods" to me, they don't usually follow that train of thought to realize that by "all is gods" I also mean things that are adversarial to human existence and survival. When they do, the nature of the conversation tends to shift. They have trouble understanding why anyone would revere and honor something like war, violence, plague, etc. I'm not sure I've had a good, drawn out conversation about that with someone.

if my signature is visible, the quote from Graham Harvey sets my view up well: everyone/everything is worthy of respect; you don't have to like what/who you respect, and so on.

When I first came across Harvey's animist manifesto, I read it to my wife, and she said something to the effect of, "Well DUH!" That's how she's looked at the world for most of her life. And pretty much, that's how I've always thought of it, too...although Harvey says it a bit more succinctly than I ever did. Not that I agree with all the points in his manifesto, but I do the ones at the beginning...

But I think I've discussed this here and IRL only a few times. Most people think dualistically, or monistically, and rarely in the plural, and I've found few who are willing to go down the rabbit-hole of pluralist animism, and I don't push it much.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Stuff like that doesn't bother me, I guess. In a way, I envy them.

I guess for me it's a manner in which it's used. Drawing inspiration and insight from the Spirit World is one thing, claiming some manner of authority because "I spoke with Good Granny Morrighan in the astral plane because why not you can't disprove it" is quite another. (I've ran into a few of those).

Then with my understanding of things like vampires, I'm just left dumbfounded and wondering why anyone would want to be them.

 

[Quintessence]

Then with my understanding of things like vampires, I'm just left dumbfounded and wondering why anyone would want to be them.

Haha... I suppose it depends on which vampire mythos they are inspired by. Some, I can understand. Others, not so much.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Haha... I suppose it depends on which vampire mythos they are inspired by. Some, I can understand. Others, not so much.

We need one of those smilies with fangs...

 

[Politesse]

I bury it inside dull lectures on functionalism.