• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
OK, if you think it'll help...

Isaiah 22:1 What has happened to thee, that now ye are all gone up to the housetops which help you not? 2 The city is filled with shouting men: thy slain are not slain with swords, nor are thy dead those who have died in battle. 3 All thy princes have fled, and thy captives are tightly bound, and the mighty men in thee have fled far away. 4 Therefore I said, Let me alone, I will weep bitterly; labour not to comfort me for the breach of the daughter of my people. 5 For it is a day of trouble, and of destruction, and of treading down, and there is perplexity sent from the Lord of hosts: they wander in the valley of Sion; they wander from the least to the greatest on the mountains. 6 And the Elamites took their quivers, and there were men mounted on horses, and there was a gathering for battle. 7 And it shall be that thy choice valleys shall be filled with chariots, and horsemen shall block up thy gates. 8 And they shall uncover the gates of Juda, and they shall look in that day on the choice houses of the city. 9 And they shall uncover the secret places of the houses of the citadel of David: and they saw that they were many, and that one had turned the water of the old pool into the city; 10 and that they had pulled down the houses of Jerusalem, to fortify the wall of the city. 11 And ye procured to yourselves water between the two walls within the ancient pool: but ye looked not to Him that made it from the beginning, and regarded not Him that created it. 12 And the Lord, the Lord of hosts, called in that day for weeping, and lamentation, and baldness, and for girding with sackcloth: 13 but they engaged in joy and gladness, slaying calves, and killing sheep, so as to eat flesh, and drink wine; saying, Let us eat and drink; for to-morrow we die. 14 And these things are revealed in the ears of the Lord of hosts: for this sin shall not be forgiven you, until ye die.

15 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Go into the chamber, to Somnas the treasurer, and say to him, Why art thou here? 16 and what hast thou to do here, that thou hast here hewn thyself a sepulchre, and madest thyself a sepulchre on high, and hast graven for thyself a dwelling in the rock? 17 Behold now, the Lord of hosts casts forth and will utterly destroy such a man, and will take away thy robe and thy glorious crown, 18 and will cast thee into a great and unmeasured land, and there thou shalt die: and he will bring thy fair chariot to shame, and the house of thy prince to be trodden down. 19 And thou shalt be removed from thy stewardship, and from thy place. 20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call My servant Eliakim the son of Chelcias: 21 and I will put on Him thy robe, and I will grant Him thy crown with power, and I will give thy stewardship into His hands: and He shall be as a father to them that dwell in Jerusalem, and to them that dwell in Juda. 22 And I will give Him the glory of David; and He shall rule, and there shall be none to speak against Him: and I will give Him the key of the house of David upon His shoulder; and He shall open, and there shall be none to shut; and He shall shut, and there shall be none to open. 23 And I will make Him a ruler in a sure place, and He shall be for a glorious throne of His Father’s house. 24 And every one that is glorious in the house of His Father shall trust in Him, from the least to the greatest; and they shall depend upon Him in that day. 25 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, The man that is fastened in the sure place shall be removed and be taken away, and shall fall; and the glory that is upon Him shall be utterly destroyed: for the Lord has spoken it. [crucifixion]

30:9 For the people is disobedient, false children, who would not hear the law of God: 10 who say to the prophets, Report not to us; and to them that see visions, Speak them not to us, but speak and report to us another error; 11 and turn us aside from this way; remove from us this path, and remove from us the oracle of Israel. [Matthew 23:34-37, 21:39-41, 22:4-7]

12 Therefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye have refused to obey these words, and have trusted in falsehood; and because thou hast murmured, and been confident in this respect: 13 therefore shall this sin be to you as a wall suddenly falling when a strong city has been taken, of which the fall is very near at hand. 14 And the fall thereof shall be as the breaking of an earthen vessel, as small fragments of a pitcher, so that thou shouldest not find among them a sherd, with which thou mightest take up fire, and with which thou shouldest draw a little water. 15 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy Lord of Israel; When thou shalt turn and mourn, then thou shalt be saved; and thou shalt know where thou wast, when thou didst trust in vanities: then your strength became vain, yet ye would not hearken: 16 but ye said, We will flee upon horses; therefore shall ye flee: and, We will be aided by swift riders; therefore shall they that pursue you be swift. 17 A thousand shall flee because of the voice of one, and many shall flee on account of the voice of five; until ye be left as a signal-post upon a mountain, and as one bearing an ensign upon a hill.

18 And the Lord will again wait, that He may pity you, and will therefore be exalted that He may have mercy upon you: because the Lord your God is a judge: blessed are they that stay themselves upon him.

19 For the holy people shall dwell in Sion: and whereas Jerusalem has wept bitterly, saying, Pity me; He shall pity thee: when He perceived the voice of thy cry, He hearkened to thee. 20 And though the Lord shall give you the bread of affliction and scant water, yet they that cause thee to err shall no more at all draw nigh to thee; for thine eyes shall see those that cause thee to err, 21 and thine ears shall hear the words of them that went after thee to lead thee astray, who say, This is the way, let us walk in it, whether to the right or to the left. 22 And thou shalt pollute the plated idols, and thou shalt grind to powder the gilt ones, and shalt scatter them as the water of a removed woman, and thou shalt thrust them forth as dung..."[LLX]

Matthew 21:44 "And whosoever shall fall on this Stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."[KJV]
Daniel 2:34 "Thou sawest until a stone was cut out of a mountain without hands, and it smote the image upon its feet of iron and earthenware, and utterly reduced them to powder."[LXX]
Revelation 2:27 "And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father."[KJV]


Vive la différence! :cool:

Revelation 22:18 "if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book" Your subjective adding to what is written is not a wise move. You might want to consider Revelation 14:10, and identify the "beast", the mark of the beast, and the two horns of the beast. Your early church indoctrination has not served you well.

Who is Shebna, the predecessor to Eliakim? Isaiah 22:19 "And thou shalt be removed from thy stewardship, and from thy place." (Mt 16:19) & Is 22:22
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
OK, if you think it'll help...

Isaiah 22:1 What has happened to thee, that now ye are all gone up to the housetops which help you not? 2 The city is filled with shouting men: thy slain are not slain with swords, nor are thy dead those who have died in battle. 3 All thy princes have fled, and thy captives are tightly bound, and the mighty men in thee have fled far away. 4 Therefore I said, Let me alone, I will weep bitterly; labour not to comfort me for the breach of the daughter of my people. 5 For it is a day of trouble, and of destruction, and of treading down, and there is perplexity sent from the Lord of hosts: they wander in the valley of Sion; they wander from the least to the greatest on the mountains. 6 And the Elamites took their quivers, and there were men mounted on horses, and there was a gathering for battle. 7 And it shall be that thy choice valleys shall be filled with chariots, and horsemen shall block up thy gates. 8 And they shall uncover the gates of Juda, and they shall look in that day on the choice houses of the city. 9 And they shall uncover the secret places of the houses of the citadel of David: and they saw that they were many, and that one had turned the water of the old pool into the city; 10 and that they had pulled down the houses of Jerusalem, to fortify the wall of the city. 11 And ye procured to yourselves water between the two walls within the ancient pool: but ye looked not to Him that made it from the beginning, and regarded not Him that created it. 12 And the Lord, the Lord of hosts, called in that day for weeping, and lamentation, and baldness, and for girding with sackcloth: 13 but they engaged in joy and gladness, slaying calves, and killing sheep, so as to eat flesh, and drink wine; saying, Let us eat and drink; for to-morrow we die. 14 And these things are revealed in the ears of the Lord of hosts: for this sin shall not be forgiven you, until ye die.

15 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Go into the chamber, to Somnas the treasurer, and say to him, Why art thou here? 16 and what hast thou to do here, that thou hast here hewn thyself a sepulchre, and madest thyself a sepulchre on high, and hast graven for thyself a dwelling in the rock? 17 Behold now, the Lord of hosts casts forth and will utterly destroy such a man, and will take away thy robe and thy glorious crown, 18 and will cast thee into a great and unmeasured land, and there thou shalt die: and he will bring thy fair chariot to shame, and the house of thy prince to be trodden down. 19 And thou shalt be removed from thy stewardship, and from thy place. 20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call My servant Eliakim the son of Chelcias: 21 and I will put on Him thy robe, and I will grant Him thy crown with power, and I will give thy stewardship into His hands: and He shall be as a father to them that dwell in Jerusalem, and to them that dwell in Juda. 22 And I will give Him the glory of David; and He shall rule, and there shall be none to speak against Him: and I will give Him the key of the house of David upon His shoulder; and He shall open, and there shall be none to shut; and He shall shut, and there shall be none to open. 23 And I will make Him a ruler in a sure place, and He shall be for a glorious throne of His Father’s house. 24 And every one that is glorious in the house of His Father shall trust in Him, from the least to the greatest; and they shall depend upon Him in that day. 25 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, The man that is fastened in the sure place shall be removed and be taken away, and shall fall; and the glory that is upon Him shall be utterly destroyed: for the Lord has spoken it. [crucifixion]

30:9 For the people is disobedient, false children, who would not hear the law of God: 10 who say to the prophets, Report not to us; and to them that see visions, Speak them not to us, but speak and report to us another error; 11 and turn us aside from this way; remove from us this path, and remove from us the oracle of Israel. [Matthew 23:34-37, 21:39-41, 22:4-7]

12 Therefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye have refused to obey these words, and have trusted in falsehood; and because thou hast murmured, and been confident in this respect: 13 therefore shall this sin be to you as a wall suddenly falling when a strong city has been taken, of which the fall is very near at hand. 14 And the fall thereof shall be as the breaking of an earthen vessel, as small fragments of a pitcher, so that thou shouldest not find among them a sherd, with which thou mightest take up fire, and with which thou shouldest draw a little water. 15 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy Lord of Israel; When thou shalt turn and mourn, then thou shalt be saved; and thou shalt know where thou wast, when thou didst trust in vanities: then your strength became vain, yet ye would not hearken: 16 but ye said, We will flee upon horses; therefore shall ye flee: and, We will be aided by swift riders; therefore shall they that pursue you be swift. 17 A thousand shall flee because of the voice of one, and many shall flee on account of the voice of five; until ye be left as a signal-post upon a mountain, and as one bearing an ensign upon a hill.

18 And the Lord will again wait, that He may pity you, and will therefore be exalted that He may have mercy upon you: because the Lord your God is a judge: blessed are they that stay themselves upon him.

19 For the holy people shall dwell in Sion: and whereas Jerusalem has wept bitterly, saying, Pity me; He shall pity thee: when He perceived the voice of thy cry, He hearkened to thee. 20 And though the Lord shall give you the bread of affliction and scant water, yet they that cause thee to err shall no more at all draw nigh to thee; for thine eyes shall see those that cause thee to err, 21 and thine ears shall hear the words of them that went after thee to lead thee astray, who say, This is the way, let us walk in it, whether to the right or to the left. 22 And thou shalt pollute the plated idols, and thou shalt grind to powder the gilt ones, and shalt scatter them as the water of a removed woman, and thou shalt thrust them forth as dung..."[LLX]

Matthew 21:44 "And whosoever shall fall on this Stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."[KJV]
Daniel 2:34 "Thou sawest until a stone was cut out of a mountain without hands, and it smote the image upon its feet of iron and earthenware, and utterly reduced them to powder."[LXX]
Revelation 2:27 "And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father."[KJV]


Vive la différence! :cool:

Revelation 22:18 "if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book" Your subjective adding to what is written is not a wise move. You might want to consider Revelation 14:10, and identify the "beast", the mark of the beast, and the two horns of the beast. Your early church indoctrination has not served you well.

Who is Shebna, the predecessor to Eliakim? Isaiah 22:19 "And thou shalt be removed from thy stewardship, and from thy place." (Mt 16:19) & Is 22:22
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Peter and Paul will help deceive those who "dwell on the earth", as the two horns of the beast

Revelation 2:20 "Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce My servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols."
13:11 "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."
John 5:43 "I am come in My Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."

The two horns are on one false prophet... not two unicorns.
Jezebel is the system itself, filled with false prophets doing signs anomia.



Revelation 22:18 "if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book" Your subjective adding to what is written is not a wise move. You might want to consider Revelation 14:10, and identify the "beast", the mark of the beast, and the two horns of the beast. Your early church indoctrination has not served you well.

22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

Book = biblos = properly, the inner bark of the papyrus plant, i.e. (by implication) a sheet or scroll of writing:--book.
Prophecy = prophetes; prediction (scriptural or other):--prophecy, prophesying.

The whole Bible is very clearly NOT what Revelation means to protect...
since the whole modern book consists of a man-made-canon...
and because not every scroll is predictive.


Vive la différence! :cool:
 
Last edited:

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Revelation 2:20 "Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce My servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols."
13:11 "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."
John 5:43 "I am come in My Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."

The two horns are on one false prophet... not two unicorns.
Jezebel is the system itself, filled with false prophets doing signs anomia.





22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

Book = biblos = properly, the inner bark of the papyrus plant, i.e. (by implication) a sheet or scroll of writing:--book.
Prophecy = prophetes; prediction (scriptural or other):--prophecy, prophesying.

The whole Bible is very clearly NOT what Revelation means to protect...
since the whole modern book consists of a man-made-canon...
and because not every scroll is predictive.


Vive la différence! :cool:

The two horns are on the "beast" (Rev 13), not on the false prophet. And the head of the 7th beast, the beast with two horns like lamb, them being Christlike, are Peter and Paul, the foundation stones of the Roman church. Constantine built basilicas for both.

Adding or taking away from the WORD of God, is not wise, whether in Revelation or the prophets such as Isaiah. You also failed to identify Shebna who was put in control "of the royal household" (Is 22:15) & (Mt 16:19), and carved a place for himself in the "rock". (Is 22:1).
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Adding or taking away from the WORD of God, is not wise, whether in Revelation or the prophets such as Isaiah.

Decide for yourself what is the definition of "the Word of God", and don't take away from or add to any of it... that's a pretty good rule of thumb. Thanx
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Decide for yourself what is the definition of "the Word of God", and don't take away from or add to any of it... that's a pretty good rule of thumb. Thanx

The "Word of God", Scripture, was defined by Yeshua as the OT (John 10:35) and the testimony of Yeshua (Revelation 19:10).
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
The two horns are on the "beast" (Rev 13), not on the false prophet.

13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

They're both called beasts. The second one is called a "prophet", because of his "two horns like a lamb," and "false" because he "spake as a dragon." Jesus says the dragon's people are of their father the devil... and calls the Pharisees vipers headed to sheol.


The "Word of God", Scripture, was defined by Yeshua as the OT (John 10:35) and the testimony of Yeshua (Revelation 19:10).

And Jesus seems to be quoting the Greek LXX. Matthew might have written two gospels, one in Aramaic, one in Greek... but it's unlikely. Matthew's account has great masses of things for which Matthew was MIA. Matthew wasn't hearsay, but it was written by either Andrew, James or Peter... John having been accounted for... from the first-four chosen, to be with Jesus in the transfiguration or Gesthemene. A book I've been reading posits the theory that a forgery is made to cover up the authorship of a popular and related document. 2nd Peter has been called a forgery since time out of mind.
 
Last edited:

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
And Jesus seems to be quoting the Greek LXX.

The LXX was a Greek version of the OT. The scrolls listened to by Yeshua would have been written in Hebrew and Aramaic. His audience would have been taught using the commoner language, which was Aramaic.
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

They're both called beasts. The second one is called a "prophet", because of his "two horns like a lamb," and "false" because he "spake as a dragon." Jesus says the dragon's people are of their father the devil... and calls the Pharisees vipers headed to sheol.

And Jesus seems to be quoting the Greek LXX. Matthew might have written two gospels, one in Aramaic, one in Greek... but it's unlikely. Matthew's account has great masses of things for which Matthew was MIA. Matthew wasn't hearsay, but it was written by either Andrew, James or Peter... John having been accounted for... from the first-four chosen, to be with Jesus in the transfiguration or Gesthemene. A book I've been reading posits the theory that a forgery is made to cover up the authorship of a popular and related document. 2nd Peter has been called a forgery since time out of mind.

For the record, I had expanded that post.

The LXX was a Greek version of the OT. The scrolls listened to by Yeshua would have been written in Hebrew and Aramaic. His audience would have been taught using the commoner language, which was Aramaic.

But why on earth do you think Jesus needed to be read to like a child, when, as a child, He was teaching the so-called teachers? And they never leared a single thing from Him, BTW.

And if you think that the common language was Aramaic, you will have to explain why the LXX came to be written in a language that ran from Briton through all of the lands of the Roman Empire... that universal language was Greek.

Hebrew is the language of Canaanites. Some say that Aramaic came from Persian Elam. The really odd thing is that Akkadian was ever called a Semitic language... when the people who remained in Chaldea were (according to Jasher) still working for Nimrod. It's hard to understand why Jasher ever made it to press. And the Akkadians were a crude black-skinned people, according to the archaeologists. The Sumerians seem to have been Scythians speaking a Turanian language. Ur of the Chaldees is a distinct oddity, in and of itself. Their funerals were Egyptian. And Homer is another oddity: he speaks of burning the corpse, but Dares (who was there) says they were buried. The people who burned their dead came from Central Asia... so, was Homer even Greek?

And according to Jasher, the Greeks of Macedonia are related to the Britons and Germans... and to whomever else from the isles that beong to Javan.

But it seems like Canaanite Phoenicians got around... maybe not as much as Bochart says. And it's these Phoenician Canaanites who are the mystery behind it all. The fact that they spoke what is called Hebrew has people calling them Semites... and the twisted blood-lines lead to Samothrace after the Thracians and Pelasgians were long gone. These Phoenicians were almost certainly the Druids, just as the Cabiri etc., ad nauseam, happened to be. Some say that Ireland is (at least partially) Phoenician... and give all kinds of reasons for saying so.

Language is only a determinative when the people are unmixed and/or not replaced. We know from the Bible itself that Esau chose Canaanites for wives. And Esau became "no other than Jews", by the Maccabees. So that, wherever there are Hebrew language vestiges... was it passed by Jacob or Esau, or by and through the ships of Tyre?

Therefore... Greek seems much safer, and only digamma-flavored Greek, at that.
 
Last edited:

Muffled

Jesus in me
God does not hear the prayer of the sinner. One must first repent and make restitution, and seek forgiveness from the one they wronged. Sinners have separated themselves from God.

I believe that was the Jewish view. Jesus healed people who didn't know their left hand from their right hand. It is called grace.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I don’t think your quoting the false prophet Paul is going to get you any brownie points. Why don’t you quote Acts, supposedly written by Paul’s supposed friend Luke (Acts 15:7)? “By my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel”. Keep in mind that the “evil slave” is thrown in with the hypocrites. If Paul is a false prophet, and the son of the father of lies, why is he your go to guy to bolster your case for Peter? Isn't the dreamer of Zechariah 13:4 Peter, who had a vision of eating the unclean, and subsequently his followers eat the unclean.

According to Isaiah 22:15-25, Peter is given the keys of the kingdom and was deposed, and his heir, the pope will "fall", and his followers will be "cut off".

I am sorry but your misconceptions are legion, and I can only address some of them in a concise response.

I believe you ought to read that verse in Isaiah again because there is no Peter in it nor is there a pope. That is misinterpretation at the height of fantasy.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
I believe you ought to read that verse in Isaiah again because there is no Peter in it nor is there a pope. That is misinterpretation at the height of fantasy.

Because Eliakim of (Isaiah 22:22) received the "key of the house of David.... when he opens no one will shut", Catholic scholars have thought it referred to Peter, which of course it refers to Peter's heir, for Peter would be tied to Shebna, who was put in charge of the royal household, and shamed his master's house and was cast into "vast country; there you will die" (Isaiah 22:18), which according to rumors, was Rome.

The bottom line is that "in that day", the day of the LORD, the heir of Peter will "fall", and those hanging onto him will be "cut off".(Isaiah 22:25).
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
I believe that was the Jewish view. Jesus healed people who didn't know their left hand from their right hand. It is called grace.

Yeshua taught his disciples to preach the kingdom of heaven to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and heal the sick (Matthew 10:6-9). The kingdom of heaven is power and spirit. How that power is shown, is to heal the sick, cast out demons, etc. On the other hand, the church leaders of today eat the fat of the sheep. (Zechariah 11:16), which is what the pope, the heir of Peter, does, for the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, was Peter who would not care, tend, or feed the sheep, but eat their fat.(Zech 11:16). This was done before Paul's false gospel of grace. Paul's false gospel of grace has not heeled yourself.
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Jesus healed people who didn't know their left hand from their right hand.
It is called grace.

If that were true, then they never would have been healed.
What you're saying isn't the Gospel of the Kingdom... this is:

Repentance

Matthew 4 "From that time began Jesus to proclaim and to say, 'Reform ye, for come nigh hath the reign of the heavens.'"

+ Works

Matthew 13 "And He spake to them many things in similes, saying: 'Lo, the sower went forth to sow, and in his sowing, some indeed fell by the way, and the fowls did come and devour them, and others fell upon the rocky places, where they had not much earth, and immediately they sprang forth, through not having depth of earth, and the sun having risen they were scorched, and through not having root, they withered, and others fell upon the thorns, and the thorns did come up and choke them, and others fell upon the good ground, and were giving fruit, some indeed a hundredfold, and some sixty, and some thirty. He who is having ears to hear -- let him hear.'"

= Healing

Matthew 9 "And Jesus, having known their thoughts, said, 'Why think ye evil in your hearts? for which is easier? to say, The sins have been forgiven to thee; or to say, Rise, and walk? 'But, that ye may know that the Son of Man hath power upon the earth to forgive sins -- (then saith He to the paralytic) -- having risen, take up thy couch, and go to thy house.'"

the correction to the child

Revelation 3 "'As many as I love, I do convict and chasten; be zealous, then, and reform; lo, I have stood at the door, and I knock; if any one may hear My voice, and may open the door, I will come in unto him, and will sup with him, and he with Me. He who is overcoming -- I will give to him to sit with Me in my throne, as I also did overcome and did sit down with My Father in His throne. He who is having an ear -- let him hear what the Spirit saith to the assemblies.'"

________________________
The seeds that fell "by the way", and "on rocky places", and "among thorns"... they stopped doing what Jesus commands. So reform, repent, changing actions and mind... and do the love that you claimed to have when you, for an instant, believed.
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Yeshua taught his disciples to preach the kingdom of heaven to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and heal the sick (Matthew 10:6-9).
Peter who would not care, tend, or feed the sheep, but eat their fat.(Zech 11:16).

One was lost, not two... do the math:

John 17 "Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, whom Thou hast given to Me, that they may be one as we; when I was with them in the world, I was keeping them in Thy name; those whom Thou hast given to Me I did guard, and none of them was destroyed, except the son of the destruction, that the Writing may be fulfilled."

Psalm 41 "For even the man of My peace, in whom I trusted, who ate My bread, lifted up his heel against Me."

John 13 "And after the morsel, then the Adversary entered into that one, Jesus, therefore, saith to him, 'What thou dost -- do quickly;' and none of those reclining at meat knew for what intent he said this to him, for certain were thinking, since Judas had the bag, that Jesus saith to him, 'Buy what we have need of for the feast;' or that he may give something to the poor; having received, therefore, the morsel, that one immediately went forth, and it was night."

You act like you doubt that Jesus knew anything at all about Peter's rock-bottom nature.
You seem to think that Jesus, having personally guarded them, had no real effect.
But Jesus Himself tells you point blank that only Judas was lost.
________________________
We who believe and follow what Jesus says by keeping His commandments, must always believe what Jesus said to His taught ones... by whose words we shall believe on Jesus Himself. What does that say about your faith if you don't believe what Jesus says about Peter? In order to believe what Jesus did NOT say about Peter, which you've created out of whole cloth... for motives unknown.

On one side of lower sheol will be christians who followed Talmud 2.0.
On the other side are all deniers of Jesus' words through His taught ones.
Both sides are the victims of the Hegelian Order Out of Chaos... Ironic, that.
 
Last edited:

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
One was lost, not two... do the math:

John 17 "Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, whom Thou hast given to Me, that they may be one as we; when I was with them in the world, I was keeping them in Thy name; those whom Thou hast given to Me I did guard, and none of them was destroyed, except the son of the destruction, that the Writing may be fulfilled."

Psalm 41 "For even the man of My peace, in whom I trusted, who ate My bread, lifted up his heel against Me."

John 13 "And after the morsel, then the Adversary entered into that one, Jesus, therefore, saith to him, 'What thou dost -- do quickly;' and none of those reclining at meat knew for what intent he said this to him, for certain were thinking, since Judas had the bag, that Jesus saith to him, 'Buy what we have need of for the feast;' or that he may give something to the poor; having received, therefore, the morsel, that one immediately went forth, and it was night."

You act like you doubt that Jesus knew anything at all about Peter's rock-bottom nature.
You seem to think that Jesus, having personally guarded them, had no real effect.
But Jesus Himself tells you point blank that only Judas was lost.
________________________
We who believe and follow what Jesus says by keeping His commandments, must always believe what Jesus said to His taught ones... by whose words we shall believe on Jesus Himself. What does that say about your faith if you don't believe what Jesus says about Peter? In order to believe what Jesus did NOT say about Peter, which you've created out of whole cloth... for motives unknown.

On one side of lower sheol will be christians who followed Talmud 2.0.
On the other side are all deniers of Jesus' words through His taught ones.
Both sides are the victims of the Hegelian Order Out of Chaos... Ironic, that.

As for Judas Iscariot, he was referred to in Zechariah 11:12-13, which referral to Judas was quoted in Matthew 27:9. The Judas Iscariot of Zechariah 11:12-13 was linked with two other shepherds, who would be "annihilated in one month/generation (Zechariah 11:8). The other two shepherds/staffs, were Paul, called "Favor", because of his false gospel of grace. His breaking of the covenant God made with Abraham is noted in (Zechariah 11:10). Peter would be represented by the "worthless shepherd" "who leaves the flock" and does not care, seek, or sustain, but will devour the flesh of the fat sheep (Zechariah 11:17). That would be made obvious by Peter's heir, the pope.

Supposedly, the two shepherds of Zechariah 11, Peter and Paul, were annihilated by the Roman emperor Nero, one of the heads of the beast (Revelation 17:3), in the same generation that Judas supposedly took his own life.

Yeshua's quotes with respect to Peter are, "get behind me Satan", "you are a stumbling block to me" (Matthew 16:23), and if anyone denies me, I will deny them before my father in heaven, and Satan has demanded to sift you like wheat. (Luke 22:31) NASB.

John 6:70 Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!". Did not Yeshua call Peter "Satan"/devil. As for Judas, apparently Yeshua fed Judas the devil (John 13:26-27) to fulfill Scripture. Paul was not counted among the twelve..

New American Standard Bible John 18:9
to fulfill the word which He spoke, "Of those whom You have given Me I lost not one."


If you had believed what Yeshua had said, you would not have believed anyone who said "he is in the wilderness" (Matthew 24:26).
 
Last edited:

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
The Kingdom Gospel is all about conditions, just as the Promise to Abraham had it's own conditions. Since Jesus tells us that the Father gave to Jesus those who belonged to God, doesn't that mean that the Law of Moses has continued from Eden through Matthew... and continues like skipping-stones, through the Revelation? Since the Heaven and Earth have not passed away and will not do so until the Millennium of the Kingdom is finished, and since Jesus says that His words will never pass away... I find that the gospel of Paul is written exclusively for the gentiles. Because according to Jesus, not one word of the Law is removed from His Kingdom Gospel, making His Gospel the gospel to the circumcision.

I am new here... so, moderators, if you please... tell me if I do wrong in posting this thread.

If I might ask, as to what law are you in reference to ?
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
If I might ask, as to what law are you in reference to ?

Jesus tells us we will be judged by the words He spoke. That's the only Law I know about. Jesus tells us by example, each of the 10 Commandments. Any nation that is busy tearing down those Commandments has ceased to belong to God. The judgement which follows will be something on the order of the Vials of Wrath.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Jesus tells us we will be judged by the words He spoke. That's the only Law I know about. Jesus tells us by example, each of the 10 Commandments. Any nation that is busy tearing down those Commandments has ceased to belong to God. The judgement which follows will be something on the order of the Vials of Wrath.

You said ( Jesus tells us we will be judge by the words he spoke)

Maybe you can explain What Jesus said in
Matthew 12:36-37
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by your words you shalt be justified, and by your words you shalt be condemned"

So how is it that you say, that we will be judge by the words Jesus speaks.

When in fact Jesus just said. We will be judge by our own words.
 
Top