Koran dated to before Muhamad birth.

[outhouse]

The interpretative method was revealed to Muhammed, not the 'source material'.

No. provide non Islamic sources please. I want real scholarship, not biased apologetic rhetoric.

Revealed is not up for debate here. Its not part of how the previous text were changed. It is also factually not part of any CREDIBLE SCHOLARSHIP

How is someone suppose to discuss existing scripture without someone 1500 years later saying they 'plagiarised' it?

By looking at the truth of how the text came to be. The warriors own family were Christians, and he viewed how these traditions could be changed to better meet the different pagan cultures need. It is all part of understanding why the changes were made to preexisting traditions.

It's pointless to apply modern concepts to periods when such concepts didn't exist.

No. We are trying to understand how the book came to be. Ignoring the truth is not acceptable in any scholarship.

Also seeing it simply as 'plagiarism' is a complete misunderstanding of the historical context in which the Quran emerged. Crude ideological rhetoric isn't of great value in understanding things properly.

Plagiarized factually has nothing to do with ideological rhetoric.

Its NOT UP FOR DEBATE that islam used pre existing traditions. I have provided credible sources.

Using pre existing traditions and changing them, then claiming they are yours alone is factually plagiarizing.

Don't blame me because credible sources make this claim.

Islam used biblical mythology for its own. Not up for debate.

 

[outhouse]

It isn't ideas but history, historical stories are the rights of no one.

You mean the mythological stories islam incorporated in its book straight from biblical mythology?


Your right, I don't know of any Abrahamic text that was not plagiarized to some extent from previous traditions.

 

[FearGod]

You mean the mythological stories islam incorporated in its book straight from biblical mythology?


Your right, I don't know of any Abrahamic text that was not plagiarized to some extent from previous traditions.

It isn't an idea or a novel that one had authored but it is real events mentioned in the holy books.

 

[outhouse]

It isn't an idea or a novel that one had authored but it is real events mentioned in the holy books.

You don't have a clue what your even talking about academically speaking. Islamic and biblical mythology were not real events. Some events stated in religious text FACTUALLY have no historicity in many places. And have no possibility as ever taking place.

Islamic mythology is not up for debate here. Apologetic rhetoric is not up for debate.

 

[FearGod]

You don't have a clue what your even talking about academically speaking. Islamic and biblical mythology were not real events. Some events stated in religious text FACTUALLY have no historicity in many places. And have no possibility as ever taking place.

Islamic mythology is not up for debate here. Apologetic rhetoric is not up for debate.

If it wasn't real events, do you think it was hard for Mohammed to invent a different events and a new religion.

 

[outhouse]

If it wasn't real events, do you think it was hard for Mohammed to invent a different events and a new religion.

No it was not hard. he or others used previous text some biblical mythology they thought were real events.

Todays study shows many events factually have no historicity for many characters and events that were biblical literary creations. And we know these traditions were plagiarized and changed because they never took place and have no possibility of ever having taken place.

 

[outhouse]

The goal of this thread is not to bring up the plagiarized accounts.

It is to understand how the book so important to islam came to be, and what this new evidence does or does not do to help us better understand the events that took place.

 

[FearGod]

No it was not hard. he or others used previous text some biblical mythology they thought were real events.

Todays study shows many events factually have no historicity for many characters and events that were biblical literary creations. And we know these traditions were plagiarized and changed because they never took place and have no possibility of ever having taken place.

What evidences we have which indicates that such events weren't real.

 

[outhouse]

What evidences we have which indicates that such events weren't real.

You would have to pick an event and research it.

Moses never existed and has no historicity as the exodus never took place, and factual evidence shows these early cultures evolved after 1200 BC from displaced Canaanites. They were never in Egypt.

You would have to actually study something your interested in. You stay on my ignore function because you refuse to do so, and you refuse credible academia on all topics.

 

[FearGod]

You would have to pick an event and research it.

Moses never existed and has no historicity as the exodus never took place, and factual evidence shows these early cultures evolved after 1200 BC from displaced Canaanites. They were never in Egypt.

You would have to actually study something your interested in. You stay on my ignore function because you refuse to do so, and you refuse credible academia on all topics.

Do we have factual evidences that chimps immigrated from Africa to the holy land before evolving to Humans ?

 

[outhouse]

Do we have factual evidences that chimps immigrated from Africa to the holy land before evolving to Humans ?

Stay on ignore.

 

[Unification]

Changing a barbarian tribe to the Islamic great empire is what i regard as a great job.

Changing a barbarian mind to a great mind.

 

[FearGod]

Stay on ignore.

Why you reject the scriptures stories and accept the evolutionists stories ?

 

[Unification]

Some verses in the quran speaking about facts that we know today and can never be known by a man in the 7th century besides the prophet prophecies.



It make sense to me to travel in high speed from Mecca to Jerusalem, the Buraq which was the tool of travelling is derived from the word the lightning which means the speed of light according to the Arabic word in the quran.

What biblical stories that mentioned in the quran which makes no sense, examples pls.

Light/energy traveling from Mecca(center of brain) to Jerusalem(heart)

 

[Unification]

Reading the history without being biased will help in understanding what kind of man he was.
Enough to me that he ended the killing of the female babies which were practiced in the barbarian world of that era.

No more subconscious mind children needed eradicated.

 

[Unification]

Do you think that Christians are controlling the west ? i think the holy book knows more than you do

Make some research and you'll know the truth.

I believe also that the bible is a holy book, i have no problem with that.



If one don't want to believe whatever evidence you'll bring will be denied, believe me.

Outward "Christians" are under control by brainwashing in the western sphere of their brains.

 

[outhouse]

Why you reject the scriptures stories and accept the evolutionists stories ?

Because evolution is fact.

And refusing to accept religious mythology exist in your religion, is known as fanaticism and fundamentalism when people refuse credible knowledge.

People like you refuse to debate because you have no credible position to debate from, YOU know you have no credible sources so you only repeat fallacies one after the other, not knowing any better. Its a shame and it sad.

 

[Unification]

No i ain't afraid to question it.
I trust that the book is a message from the owner of this universe.

Do you believe that the universe started from null, if yes, then how a null becomes a universe ?
Why you may accept a null but not God ? if you believe in God, then why you have problems with the religion that i chose ?

Seek the message within, not the messenger. Messengers create division and become outward deities. Believing in "God" is believing "in" yourself because "God" is within you.

 

[outhouse]

Outward "Christians" are under control by brainwashing in the western sphere of their brains.

Word salad with no real meaning.

 

[Unification]

Word salad with no real meaning.

All of these fanatics, where do you suppose that is indwelled? Outside of them?