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Koran dated to before Muhamad birth.

Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Unification said:
Isn't that what's been going on here... Parallelism between religions as "plagerism?"
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Nope as parts of Quran, such as the Alexander Legends/Romance, combine two separate stories into one via paraphrasing. However there is enough to pin point the sources to a time, place and authorship. Nevermind that the story has been recycled over and over for centuries while still maintain key points in every version. IE There is tradition that covers cultures and time in one region whereas there is no such tradition in your source.
 
Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Unification said:
I'm not worried about the names listed, and every human that's ever existed has made assumptions that are wrong...

Fictional or not, what exists are the written text similarities, constructs, concepts, ideas, word origins, their meanings, and where they came from.
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Parallelism, nothing more. There are vastly more difference than similarities hence selection bias.
 
Unification

Unification

Well-Known Member
outhouse said:
No.

You don't have the knowledge to understand the origins of the Israelite cultures.


YOU have also not shown a credible connection. One article that had similarities showed nothing that substantiates your imaginative Plagiarism.

Israelites did not plagiarize Abraham from Vedic sources, and NO CREDIBLE scholar states it ever did.

While the plagiarism of islam is not even up for debate. IT IS what took place
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You "think" you have the knowledge when you don't know. I am not pretending to know nor make bold biased blind faith claims such as yourself to know.

Yes, similarities of the concepts were shown, it's too bad you're making it about "credible scholars" when it's been about similarities the entire time. Stop fantasizing.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
Unification said:
http://www.academia.edu/4540206/Brahma_and_Abraham_Divine_Covenants_of_Common_Origin
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Pseudo history that is not credible. Laughable actually. UNKNOWN RHETORIC with no author cited. Garbage.


The author has no credibility on said topics. Brahma while his origins only date a few hundred years before the creation of Abraham, NOT ONE bit of the theology that surrounds Abraham matches ANY part of Vedic theology in any way.

brahma was not wide spread or even that popular when Abrahams legends were created, he was part of many other deities in eastern cultures.

Abraham a man, and nothing more.

brahma from our best accounts is mythological deity
 
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Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Unification said:
I'll clarify more... Did the "Indian" have "Brahma" and "Saraswati" before the "Jewish" had Abraham and Sara?

Do you see striking parallels in names, without even bringing up the "academic" story parallels?

I hear your child is very wise, maybe she can google it.
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You are finding similarities in names in English, but the two languages in question have no connection what so ever. English is irrelevent. You find similarities within the two languages as each is not after transliteration and translations.
 
Unification

Unification

Well-Known Member
Shad said:
Parallelism, nothing more. There are vastly more difference than similarities hence selection bias.
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You are correct, but it was about identifying the similarities... Not differences.

Selection bias, I accept certain concepts came from Vedic concepts and that the differences were not from Vedic concepts. Do you accept no similarities?

So, is it possible for plagerism of some concepts?
 
Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Unification said:
You are correct, but it was about identifying the similarities... Not differences.
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Which is just counting the hits and ignoring the misses which is the definition of selection bias.


Selection bias, I accept certain concepts came from Vedic concepts and that the differences were not from Vedic concepts. Do you accept no similarities?
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Nope as I do not accept the claim that Judaism and it's traditions are from Vedic concepts. Again you are supporting your selection bias and outright saying "I have selection bias"

So, is it possible for plagerism of some concepts?
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Depends on if there is a link between the two ideas that is well-supported. However you have not established any such link. Whereas the links between Judaism, Christianity and Islam are over the region century after century.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
Unification said:
Control your pride, emotion, and condescending please.
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I wish people would control their ignorance.

Nothing worse then then telling a math teacher 1 + 1 = 47 and then fighting him when he tells you the correct answer is 2.


You come in here into a debate TOTALLY unarmed.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
Unification said:
Similarities; that exist in text,
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Oh you mean they are both mythological so they come from the same source???????


AFTER the author said that was not his intention with the article.


NOW provide credible source.

We know you don't care about anything but derailing the thread, you will be reporting for what looks like trolling if you don't stay on topic to the OP.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
Really now. Pleas explain your view of the historicity.

#1 Who's ideas or work did these traditions belong to originally?

#2 Does islam claim these are the true traditions received from the man?
 
Unification

Unification

Well-Known Member
Shad said:
Which is just counting the hits and ignoring the misses which is the definition of selection bias.




Nope as I do not accept the claim that Judaism and it's traditions are from Vedic concepts. Again you are supporting your selection bias and outright saying "I have selection bias"



Depends on if there is a link between the two ideas that is well-supported. However you have not established any such link. Whereas the links between Judaism, Christianity and Islam are over the region century after century.
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What it was about in the first place... The similar hits only. You made it about selection, not I. There was nothing to even select for either of us until you added "differences."

You don't accept, I respect that.. Same selection bias... You brought the differences into the debate, not I.

No links are needed, no credible scholars are needed, all that's needed are the written texts that exist with similarities.

If you wanted to talk about differences, say so. Misses, selection bias, differences had NOTHING to do with similarities.
 
Unification

Unification

Well-Known Member
outhouse said:
Oh you mean they are both mythological so they come from the same source???????


AFTER the author said that was not his intention with the article.


NOW provide credible source.

We know you don't care about anything but derailing the thread, you will be reporting for what looks like trolling if you don't stay on topic to the OP.
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Doesn't matter whether mythological or historical. The source is the written texts themselves, no need for scholars or authors which you're making it about for some reason. Read the mythology yourself. That is the source.

You are paid to teach these, provide evidence that Muhammed actually existed as well as the accuracy of his date of birth. If not, you're entire thread has been biased, misleading, and not credible. While you're at it, teacher and superior scholar... Provide the authors of the mythological writings and who their ownership belongs to... To validate "plagerism."
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
Shad said:
Nope as I do not accept the claim that Judaism and it's traditions are from Vedic concepts
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We could ask him/her why the 2 major deities in Judaism are older then the brahma mythology.

But its obvious he/she is not interested in debating at all, and with every post were only feeding it.


I keep it on ignore for constant lack of any credible methodology or reason. But he trolls my post knowing I often don't see his weak personal attacks.
 
McBell

McBell

Admiral Obvious
outhouse said:
Because you have to actually study something to understand it. Reading helps

The text was completed in 650-653 A.D under Caliph Uthman. Thus, if the Birmingham Koran was produced on or before 645 A.D. it confirms that written portions of the Suras had existed earlier than official Islamic history acknowledges.
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Actually, your link states "the parchment it was written on"...
Not "the words written on the parchment."
 
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