Krie's Question

[gnostic]

This question was originally asked in the other topic, Discussion of the Secret Book of John, which is a bit off topic, and most likely won't be answered, so I thought I would start a new topic for her.

my ex b/f thought that the Gnostic veiw was very good so i think that i would like to know more on the thoughts of them
i also hear that they are hated is that so?

So what do my gnostic friends have to say to her enquiry?

 

[Halcyon]

This question was originally asked in the other topic, Discussion of the Secret Book of John, which is a bit off topic, and most likely won't be answered, so I thought I would start a new topic for her.

So what do my gnostic friends have to say to her enquiry?

Well, I PM'ed her saying that i would be happy to answer any questions she had, i also suggested she start her own thread with more specific questions. She hasn't been on since i PM'd her around the 23rd of May.

If she wants to know some basics of Gnosticism, then i'd suggest these threads, and a search for Gnosticism on wikipedia.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23447
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32665

If she's got more specific questions then hopefully she'll see this thread.

To answer her second question. I'd say the answer is a yes with a 'but'.

Christian Gnostics were disliked by the early orthodox church because they were viewed as heretics who were deliberately trying to undermine the church with false teachings.
But, this is clearly only one side of the story, most people know propaganda when they see it. Gnostic Chrisitanity was/is not an evil, devil led religion designed to destroy the orthodox church, its just Christianity taken along a different path. Not all people think the same thing and people rarely believe the same thing, even within the same church.
To call the Gnostics as a hated group may be overstating it. They were simply in opposition to the orthodox church and as a result were partially demonised, which was a common tactic of propaganda back then, as it still is today.

 

[Buttons*]

wikipedia... try an actual book!

... as for an actual response... i'll have to get back with you on that

 

[Buttons*]

To call the Gnostics as a hated group may be overstating it. They were simply in opposition to the orthodox church and as a result were partially demonised, which was a common tactic of propaganda back then, as it still is today.

as usual, Halcyon is right.

Although, not all Gnostics are Christian Gnostics, so keep that in mind

 

[gnostic]

Although, not all Gnostics are Christian Gnostics, so keep that in mind

True.

But, this is clearly only one side of the story, most people know propaganda when they see it. Gnostic Chrisitanity was/is not an evil, devil led religion designed to destroy the orthodox church, its just Christianity taken along a different path. Not all people think the same thing and people rarely believe the same thing, even within the same church.

Well, it sealed the fate of Gnosticism, once the emperor Constantine made Christianity as State religion, and his own death-bed conversion. Although, not all emperors were Christians after him, it was clear, that the Gnostic had no choice but to hide whatever texts that survived, from the book-burnings that followed.

 

[spacemonkey]

There are cases of Gnostics being persecuted pretty intensly though. The Cathars of southern France were completely wiped out by the Albagensian Crusade, the only Crusade to pit Europeans against other Europeans. The Inquistion was also created primarily to root out Gnostic "heresy".

 

[Buttons*]

There are cases of Gnostics being persecuted pretty intensly though. The Cathars of southern France were completely wiped out by the Albagensian Crusade, the only Crusade to pit Europeans against other Europeans. The Inquistion was also created primarily to root out Gnostic "heresy".

WERE is the key word here. They are not persecuted anymore. Partly because people don't even know what a Gnostic is! Really, we cant focus on the persecution of the past, because it never happened to us

If any of you are feeling sorry for yourselves, you aren't being good Gnostics

 

[spacemonkey]

WERE is the key word here. They are not persecuted anymore. Partly because people don't even know what a Gnostic is! Really, we cant focus on the persecution of the past, because it never happened to us

If any of you are feeling sorry for yourselves, you aren't being good Gnostics

I didn't realize the question was only refering to the present day. I was just trying to give the reasons someone my say that Gnostics were a hated group. I'm not feeling sorry for myself, but for the people who were slaughtered for their "heresy".

 

[gnostic]

The Cathars of southern France were completely wiped out by the Albagensian Crusade, the only Crusade to pit Europeans against other Europeans.

Actually, there was another Crusade that attacked another Europeans, when they sack Byzantium/Constantiople. The massacre and the lootings were horrible. I don't remember when happened (or which Crusade happened first), but this left the Byzantine Empire seriously weakened, when the Ottoman Turks arrived, a century or two later. This is why there are still tension between the Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox, even today. I don't know if the Eastern Orthodox had forgiven the Roman church, but it is certainly not forgotten.

You would be correct if you were to say that Albagensian Crusade was an attack against fellow western Europeans.

But that's beside the point, and off-topic, because this about gnostic groups, not about Greek Orthodox. So excuse me for rambling.

 

[spacemonkey]

I actually meant the FIRST crusade against other Europeans, but you can always be sure that someone in these forums will be there to catch any error.

 

[gnostic]

As I said in my post, I don't remember which Crusade happened "when" nor do I remember the "-th" of this or that crusade, except the 1st three crusades; I'm not good at remembering numbers with names.

So the Albagensian Crusade happened before the one at Byzantium?

There was the Children's Crusade, where many children were involved, both boys and girls, but when they got to the sea-port, these kids were abducted and sold into slavery.

 

[Buttons*]

glad that this is staying to the OP