Krishna and the Baha'i faith

[PoetPhilosopher]

That's the thing... are people that are already Baha'is wanting to truly learn about the different Hindu beliefs, or are they here to be "friendly" with the ultimate goal of making converts out of some of the Hindus?
Sorry to say, but it seems like Baha'is want to show how their beliefs are true and the beliefs of some Hindus, Hindus that might be Atheists, or Hindus that don't believe in incarnations or manifestations, or Hindus that believe in reincarnation, that those things aren't true.

But again, if Baha'is do have "The Truth" for today, the right thing to do would be to tell everybody about it. And part of what a Baha'i would believe is that all the other religion do have false and incorrect beliefs in them. So, naturally, you wouldn't be interested in learning about those incorrect beliefs but want to help those people in the other religions to see the "light".

Trouble is, everyone suspects that. I don't think they trust that a Baha'i really wants to learn about those other religions. But only wants to appear to care and learn enough to be able to show the contrast between their religion and the Baha'i Faith. And by doing so, make those people rethink their old religion and maybe convert. For sure, you, in my opinion, do the best job at really, genuinely trying to be friendly and be friends. But if you are not thinking about converting to another religion, then what is it that you're trying to learn from those people in those other religions? Again sorry, but, for me, it's to get them into a conversation about beliefs to show how the Baha'i beliefs are better.

I can't follow the wording exactly - did you think I was a Baha'i?

 

[Truthseeker]

To Hindus, Krishna is God, period, not some manifestation. And with that, I'm out.

Okay.

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha’u’llah is very clear about the negative effect that the different religions have upon humanity by shunning one another and addresses this in His Teachings.

“Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.”
“Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished.”

Excerpt from
Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh
Bahá’u’lláh
This material may be protected by copyright.


“It is not his to boast who loveth his country, but it is his who loveth the world.”

Excerpt from
Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh


This is the aim of being a Bahá’í - is to accept all humanity. Instead of a being a restricted love it’s a universal all encompassing love for all. There are deep seated hatreds and prejudices between races, religions and nations which doesn’t exist when one becomes a Baha’i because one then accepts all as brothers. So previously the conflicting religions which hated one another, as Baha’is become brothers dedicated to the well being of humanity.

Now I can pray happily in the mosque, Synagogue, Church, Pagoda, Temple as they are all sacred to me. It’s so liberating to be a Bahá’í like being let out of a cage where I see the essence of all the religions, the virtues, the moral teachings as one and equal.

Being free from prejudice is one of the most rewarding feelings out there. No confusion anymore about who’s right and who’s wrong. All the religions are right and good. They all teach different aspects of truth.

But which religion, other than the Baha'i Faith, do you think is teaching the real and accurate teachings about God and his prophets? Is even one sect of any one religion teaching the truth about God?

Now if you want to talk about the "essence" of all religions, maybe then you can say they all teach we should love one another and all that nice stuff. But in actual teachings and beliefs, religions are all over the place. And some religions do believe the other religions are all false. And one religion is so bad that each sect doesn't believe in the other sects.

But right here in this thread is another example where Baha'is would rather push their beliefs in such a way as to turn off others... and to come off as being superior... and as not accepting the beliefs of the different Hindus here on this thread. And Baha'is don't do they? Which Hindus do Baha'is agree with?

So it's awesome that you try and be as open and as friendly as you can, but still... the problem is with the beliefs of the Baha'i Faith. They believe they are newer and have better information that has, essentially, made all the other religions outdated and, therefore, obsolete. So you can go to a Hindu Temple or a Christian Church but that doesn't mean you believe everything that the people in those places believe.

And I wouldn't expect you to. And given the opportunity, what should a Baha'i say to them? To keep believing the things you do, or that a new messenger has come and it's time for us all to follow him? Maybe Baha'i don't say it that bluntly, but in the end, that's what people are hearing. Baha'is believe in their own thing and are here to try and convert us and show us how our beliefs are wrong. I know you're doing the best you can and mean well, but you're not talking to seekers here... you are talking to people that have cherished beliefs and are practicing spiritual teachings that are working for them. Why would they leave that to accept the Baha'i Faith? A Faith that does contradict some of their beliefs? Anyway, I might not agree with everything you say, but I'm glad you're posting.

 

[CG Didymus]

I can't follow the wording exactly - did you think I was a Baha'i?

Oh sorry, I quoted that portion of your post, because it said to make "converts". Some Baha'is act as if they aren't trying to convert people to the Baha'i Faith. So the things I said were still meant for the Baha'is.

 

[Truthseeker]

Outside of some parts of India, who else was affected by the teachings of Krishna?

It's like a lot of religions. Moses didn't affect very many people at the time, but what He taught was a stepping stone to Jesus. Krishna affected more people than Moses at their respective times, actually. We believe as Baha'is that Krishna helped lead to the Buddha. I don't really know how many people in India are affected by Krishna now, because Hinduism is so diverse.

What new teachings did Krishna bring that caused humanity to advance?

It has a lot of enlightened passages, ahead of it's time:

Krishna. When one, O Pritha’s Son! Abandoning desires which shake the mind — Finds in his soul full comfort for his soul, He hath attained the Yog — that man is such! In sorrows not dejected, and in joys Not overjoyed; dwelling outside the stress Of passion, fear, and anger;
"The Bhagavad-Gita"

If one Ponders on objects of the sense, there springs Attraction; from attraction grows desire, Desire flames to fierce passion, passion breeds Recklessness; then the memory — all betrayed — Lets noble purpose go, and saps the mind, Till purpose, mind, and man are all undone.
"The Bhagavad-Gita"

There is the path of works, and you do works without attachment to the results of the works, which I believe is quite enlightened, the path of knowledge, and the path of devotion in there as I remember dimly. He accepted all paths, but the path of devotion was the highest one.

But ask Hindus about this, not me, my memory is dim on this.

And what were the things that the followers of Krishna got wrong that another manifestation was needed to correct those teachings?

One thing I think they got wrong was becoming too ascetic, and Buddha corrected that by taking a middle path of being neither ascetic or indulgent. Other than that I can't say.

And who was the manifestation prior to Krishna and what was his teachings. And how did Krishna's teachings change them?

I have no idea about any of that. It's lost in the shroud of history for me.

 

[Truthseeker]

Because while people like @Truthseeker9 are telling the truth in regards to their religion - those truths are rather dark ones to some of us, not all, in the outside world. But I don't blame them for that.

Why do you think those truths are dark for some of you?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Why do you think those truths are dark for some of you?

Earlier when I said that, I was thinking of multiple examples. But one of them was something said earlier in this thread, about how Baha'is will excommunicate other Baha'is for not believing things within the faith.

Honestly, maybe I should cut to the chase as to how things are looking to me.... I see the Baha'i faith as kind of an evangelism group, as evidenced by my quote about converting Hindus in the OP. Furthermore, while I do believe some critical thinking and reasoning do happen in the faith, it just doesn't go far enough down the rabbit-hole for me. My primitive, unadvanced, unlearned, redneck ol' Hindu faith has what I need I guess, in terms of better LGBT+ support, an understanding of Left Hand Path and Right Hand Path ideas, great ideas on cosmology, and much, much more.

 

[Vinayaka]

One site I looked at said that there were incarnations of Shiva. Is that something you believe in or just some Hindus? Either way that creates a problem tor Baha'is... not only don't they recognize the other incarnations of Vishnu but they don't recognize any of the incarnations of Shiva.

For me, I still see what the Baha'is say and do as a way for them to be able to say that they "believe" in all the other religions, yet still make parts of those religions not true by saying that things got added in to the religion and that we really don't know for sure what the prophet said. The thing that bothers me the most is that this thread had a Baha'i quote that says to make converts out of Hindus. In other threads some Baha'is deny that they are trying to convert people, but it sure seems as if they are. They pass up opportunity after opportunity to accept Hindus as they are and not try and tell them they are wrong. Take care my friend.

The 'Siva has incarnations' is a false projection from some Vaishnavites, and not common at all, but yes you do hear about it. In pure Saivism, there are no incarnations of Siva.

 

[firedragon]

We believe as Baha'is that Krishna helped lead to the Buddha.

How did Krishna help lead to the Buddha?

 

[Jainarayan]

How did Krishna help lead to the Buddha?

I’m also interested in hearing how. I have my own thoughts but I want to hear another one.

 

[firedragon]

I’m also interested in hearing how. I have my own thoughts but I want to hear another one.

I dont mind hearing your thoughts too. I promise in your case I will just shut up and listen.

 

[Jainarayan]

I dont mind hearing your thoughts too. I promise in your case I will just shut up and listen.

There are a couple of verses in the Bhagavad Gita which I think are hints that it’s time for a reform of practices and beliefs.

“Men of small knowledge are very much attached to the flowery words of the Vedas, which recommend various fruitive activities for elevation to heavenly planets, resultant good birth, power, and so forth. Being desirous of sense gratification and opulent life, they say that there is nothing more than this.

All purposes served by a small well can at once be served by a great reservoir of water. Similarly, all the purposes of the Vedas can be served to one who knows the purpose behind them.”

There are other surrounding verses in the surrounding chapters in which Sri Krishna seems to be saying “things ain’t what they used to be and ain’t what they should be... time to change things a bit”. He’s very much against ritual for ritual’s sake or materialistic ends.

So that’s really all it is in my observations. He says when there’s a decline of righteousness and an upswing in unrighteousness He appears. I think the unrighteousness of Kamsa and Duryodhana are not the only thing He appeared for, to address. This began changes leading to the Buddha’s more extensive changes.

 

[firedragon]

There are a couple of verses in the Bhagavad Gita which I think are hints that it’s time for a reform of practices and beliefs.

“Men of small knowledge are very much attached to the flowery words of the Vedas, which recommend various fruitive activities for elevation to heavenly planets, resultant good birth, power, and so forth. Being desirous of sense gratification and opulent life, they say that there is nothing more than this.

All purposes served by a small well can at once be served by a great reservoir of water. Similarly, all the purposes of the Vedas can be served to one who knows the purpose behind them.”

There are other surrounding verses in the surrounding chapters in which Sri Krishna seems to be saying “things ain’t what they used to be and ain’t what they should be... time to change things a bit”. He’s very much against ritual for ritual’s sake or materialistic ends.

So that’s really all it is in my observations. He says when there’s a decline of righteousness and an upswing in unrighteousness He appears. I think the unrighteousness of Kamsa and Duryodhana are not the only thing He appeared for, to address. This began changes leading to the Buddha’s more extensive changes.

Thanks a lot brother.

 

[Truthseeker]

Earlier when I said that, I was thinking of multiple examples. But one of them was something said earlier in this thread, about how Baha'is will excommunicate other Baha'is for not believing things within the faith.

No one is excommunicated for not believing things within the Baha'i Faith. This onlty happens when somene joins a group that challenges the head of the Baha'i and sets up an alternate organization. You see, the succession of the center of the Baha'i Faith is passed in writing from one center to another, so there's no excuse for challenging something that is so clear. Also, when someone joins such an alternate group, there are qualified individuals that work with them to try to persuade them from dong that. If there is no persuasion, no one is to allow such a person to talk to them, because someone who is better qualified to persuade the person didn't persuade them, so tyhey certinly wouldn't, and the person may cause someone who is relatively ignorant of the facts to join the alternate group with them.

Honestly, maybe I should cut to the chase as to how things are looking to me.... I see the Baha'i faith as kind of an evangelism group, as evidenced by my quote about converting Hindus in the OP. Furthermore, while I do believe some critical thinking and reasoning do happen in the faith, it just doesn't go far enough down the rabbit-hole for me. My primitive, unadvanced, unlearned, redneck ol' Hindu faith has what I need I guess, in terms of better LGBT+ support, an understanding of Left Hand Path and Right Hand Path ideas, great ideas on cosmology, and much, much more.

We are not supposed to force our teachings to those who are not receptive in the first place. Don't be overly infuenced by the wotrd "convert".

The wise are they that speak not unless they obtain a hearing, even as the cup-bearer, who proffereth not his cup till he findeth a seeker...
Bahá’u’lláh, "The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh"

I have no idea of what you mean by Left Hand Path or Right Hand path. The Hindu faith has some advanced techings for it's time in the Bhagavad Gita. It's a great discourse as far as I'm concerned.

As far as LBGT+ support, my wife is a gay Baha'i and we don't discriminate against anyone who is such. It's true that we some teachings you may not like in that area, like no sex between gay people and marriage is only between a man and a woman. I can't expect you to support something like that from a purely rational viewpoint, you would have to recognize the authority of Baha'u'llah to says things like that first. So anyway, there is an impasse that can't be bridged there right now.

Cosmology is the area of science, not religion. What moral good does it do you to have some cosmology that approximates what science says? Does this make you a better person?

The Baha'i Faith is compatible with science, and we don't need the Baha'i Faith to reveal scientific things.

Anyway, I hope Hinduism does good rthings for you.

 

[kiwimac]

Frankly, Shoghi Effendi couldn't be bothered to appoint a successor in accordance with the strictures laid down in the Aqdas. So his opinion on the Hindu Dharma is hardly important.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Cosmology is the area of science, not religion. What moral good does it do you to have some cosmology that approximates what science says? Does this make you a better person?

I take the view that morality comes from within naturally (if one is healthy) and is mostly from social understandings and etiquette, evolution, inward understandings in a system based on free will as a concept or illusion, etc. Not fully based on religion.

 

[sayak83]

Yes I have Bhagavad Gita As It Is and that’s an awesome translation. It would have to be as time permits.

I have created a thread for discussing Gita from Hindu and Bahai perspective

 

[arthra]

This topic interested me as earlier in my life I was fascinated by the Bhagavad Gita and practiced Yoga and stayed at an Ashram for awhile. I read an excerpt from the Gita once at a Baptist prayer meeting and people liked it... After studying Theravadin Buddhism I strongly felt that I could not associate myself with any religion that rejected the Messengers of God.


An Indian said to Abdu’l-Baha: “My aim in life is to transmit as far as in me lies the message of Krishna to the world.” Abdu’l-Bahá said: “The Message of Krishna is the message of love. All God’s prophets have brought the message of love.”

– Abdu’l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 35.

Also read:

Baha'u'llah and the Return of Krishna

Krishna's Message Is That Of Universal Love - Times of India

1 - Darshana

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes I have Bhagavad Gita As It Is and that’s an awesome translation. It would have to be as time permits.

Did you know sayak83 started a thread in Interfaith discussions.

 

[CG Didymus]

This topic interested me as earlier in my life I was fascinated by the Bhagavad Gita and practiced Yoga and stayed at an Ashram for awhile. I read an excerpt from the Gita once at a Baptist prayer meeting and people liked it... After studying Theravadin Buddhism I strongly felt that I could not associate myself with any religion that rejected the Messengers of God.


An Indian said to Abdu’l-Baha: “My aim in life is to transmit as far as in me lies the message of Krishna to the world.” Abdu’l-Bahá said: “The Message of Krishna is the message of love. All God’s prophets have brought the message of love.”

– Abdu’l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 35.

Also read:

Baha'u'llah and the Return of Krishna

Krishna's Message Is That Of Universal Love - Times of India

1 - Darshana

When you were practicing yoga and living at an Ashram, what were you believing about the Bhagavad Gita and Krishna? Same thing when you were studying Theravadin Buddhism? Since becoming a Baha'i, did those views change and how did they change?

About the article on Baha'u'llah and the Return of Krishna. Why the tenth? Since Krishna how many "manifestations" do Baha'i believe have come? For sure Jesus, Muhammad and The Bab... why weren't they, and any others, counted?

And do you have a link to the articles that talk about the fulfillment of the prophecies about Kalki?