"Lack of belief"

[bobhikes]

Christian Atheist?

Agnostic- Having looking at several religions and science and discovered no proof available for or against God
Christian- He is a Religious Philosopher that I choose to follow I substitute Do Good for God
Atheist- Personal opinion after everything I have looked at.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, there is nothing dishonest in comparing gods to Russel's Teapot or an invisible pink unicorn. On that, we agree. However, to do so is, in my opinion, to relegate gods to the realm of the absurd. Again, there's nothing dishonest about doing that either. I also don't have an issue with an atheist not believing in any given god for whatever reason they choose.

To relegate gods to the realm of the absurd and then say "I just lack belief" is where my issue lies. At that point, the only purpose I can see for claiming lack of belief is one of convenience. As far as I'm concerned, once you've considered gods equal to an invisible pink unicorn, claiming lack of belief is just as meaningless as my lack of belief in the purple space hippo.

The Invisible Pink Unicorn is an example of something where we just lack belief. We have no evidence that the IPU *doesn't* exist, just a lack of evidence that it does exist. It's a textbook example of something where we have no evidence either way.

It's perfectly valid to draw a parallel between the IPU and anything else that has no evidence either way, including a god. If you don't like your god being compared to the IPU, then give evidence for your god.

The whole point of parodies like the IPU and leprechauns is to illustrate how we handle lack of belief when we're talking about *anything*
other than gods.

 

[Willamena]

The Invisible Pink Unicorn is an example of something where we just lack belief. We have no evidence that the IPU *doesn't* exist...

Except its logical impossibility.

...just a lack of evidence that it does exist. It's a textbook example of something where we have no evidence either way.

It's perfectly valid to draw a parallel between the IPU and anything else that has no evidence either way, including a god. If you don't like your god being compared to the IPU, then give evidence for your god.

The whole point of parodies like the IPU and leprechauns is to illustrate how we handle lack of belief when we're talking about *anything*
other than gods.

 

[Valjean]

OK, a visible but unseen pink unicorn, then.

 

[LuisDantas]

So what's your take on the whole "lack of belief" debate?

I tend to see "lacking a belief" as a short of short form for "I am not interested in taking a side on this matter".

When we atheists state it, it is mostly to point out that

1) we do indeed have the rigtht not to believe in any form of deity

2) the world, interestingly, does not treat us any differently as a result

3) the exception is that some people somehow find it strange and even worrying that atheists exist

 

[Willamena]

OK, a visible but unseen pink unicorn, then.

That entirely defeats the purpose of the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

 

[Valjean]

You imagine your unicorn and I'll imagine mine.
Mine has ribbons in its mane

 

[Ouroboros]

I'm an apinkunicornist, and all my kids were born apinkunicornists as well.

So, obviously, we joined the Apinkunicornist Association and pay member fees to spread the knowledge and insight about our lack in belief in apinkunicornism.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Except its logical impossibility.

If you're getting hung up on the IPU, then try the Flying Spaghetti Monster or leprechauns and you'll get what I'm going for.

 

[Pudding]

Knowledge isn't quantitative--there's not an amount of it. Knowledge just is, or it isn't. If you know something I don't, and you share it with me, I don't have "more" knowledge. I just have knowledge. I had knowledge before you spoke up, and I have knowledge after. There is no "all" to compare what we each have. We each equally have knowledge.

And I have no lacks.

You have no lacks?

You doesn't lack the knowledge which needed in order to graduate and get the below professional degrees?

• Doctor of Acupuncture (D.Ac., D.Acu.)
• Doctor of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine (D.A.O.M.)
• Doctor of Anesthesia Practice (Dr.AP)
• Doctor of Applied Science (D.A.S.)
• Doctor of Architecture (D.Arch.)
• Doctor of Arts (D.A.)
• Doctor of Athletic Training (D.A.T.)
• Doctor of Audiology (Au.D)
• Doctor of Behavioral Health (D.B.H.)
• Doctor of Business Administration (D.B.A.)
• Doctor of Canon Law (J.C.D.)
• Doctor of Chemistry (D.Chem.)
• Doctor of Chiropractic (D.C.)
• Doctor of Clinical Nutrition (D.C.N.)
• Doctor of Clinical Science in Speech-Language Pathology (CScD)
• Doctor of Comparative Law (D.C.L.)
• Doctor of Civil Law (D.C.L.)
• Doctor of Computer Science (D.C.S.)
• Doctor of Criminal Justice (D.C.J.)
• Doctor of Criminology (D.Crim.)
• Doctor of Divinity (Divinitatis Doctor) (D.D.)
• Doctor of Dental Medicine (D.M.D.)
• Doctor of Dental Surgery (D.D.S.)
• Doctor of Design (D.Des.)
• Doctor of Engineering (D.Eng.)
• Doctor of Engineering Science (D.E.Sc., Sc.D E.)
• Doctor of Environmental Science and Engineering (D.Env.)
• Doctor of Fine Arts (D.F.A.)
• Doctor of Forestry (D.F.)
• Doctor of Geological Science (D.G.S.)
• Doctor of Health Administration (D.H.A.)
• Doctor of Health and Safety (D.H.S.)
• Doctor of Health Education (D.H.Ed)
• Doctor of Hebrew Literature/Letters (D.H.L.)
• Doctor of Health Science (D.H.Sc., D.H.S.)
• Doctor of Hebrew Studies (D.H.S.)
• Doctor of Humane Letters (D.Hum.Litt.)
• Doctor of Industrial Technology (D.I.T.)
• Doctor of Information Technology (D.I.T.)
• Doctor of Juridical Science (S.J.D)
• Doctor of Jurisprudence (J.D.)
• Doctor of Law and Policy (L.P.D., D.L.P.)
• Doctor of Library Science (D.L.S.)
• Doctor of Management (Dmgt.)
• Doctor of Medical Humanities (D.M.H.)
• Doctor of Medical Science (D.M.Sc.)
• Doctor of Medicine (M.D.)
• Doctor of Ministry (D.Min., D.M.)
• Doctor of Missiology (D.Miss)
• Doctor of Modern Languages (D.M.L.)
• Doctor of Music (D.Mus, Mus.Doc.)
• Doctor of Musical Arts (D.M.A., A.Mus.D.)
• Doctor of Musical Education (D.M.E.)
• Doctor of Music Therapy (D.M.T.)
• Doctor of Naprapathic Medicine (D.N.)
• Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine (N.D., N.M.D.)
• Doctor of Nursing Practice (D.N.P.)
• Doctor of Occupational Therapy (O.T.D., D.O.T.)
• Doctor of Optometry (O.D.)
• Doctor of Oriental Medicine (D.O.M., O.M.D.)
• Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (D.O.)
• Doctor of Pastoral Counseling (D.PC)
• Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm.D.)
• Doctor of Physical Education (D.P.E.)
• Doctor of Physical Therapy (D.P.T.)
• Doctor of Podiatric Medicine (D.P.M.)
• Doctor of Practical Theology (D.P.T., D.Th.P.)
• Doctor of Professional Studies (D.P.S.)
• Doctor of Psychology (Psy.D)
• Doctor of Public Administration (D.P.A.)
• Doctor of Public Health (D.P.H.)
• Doctor of Recreation (D.Rec., D.R.)
• Doctor of Rehabilitation (Rh.D.)
• Doctor of Science (D.Sc., Sc.D.)
• Doctor of Science in Dentistry (D.Sc.D.)
• Doctor of Science and Hygiene (D.Sc.H.)
• Doctor of Science in Veterinary Medicine (D.Sc.V.M.)
• Doctor of the Science of Law (J.S.D.)
• Doctor of Social Science (D.S.Sc.)
• Doctor of Social Work (D.S.W.)
• Doctor of Sacred Music (D.S.M.)
• Doctor of Transformational Leadership (D.T.L.)
• Doctor of Veterinary Medicine (D.V.M.)

Many other list of doctoral degrees here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doctoral_degrees_awarded_by_country

You doesn't lack every knowledge?
That's impressive, how do you achieve that?

 

[Kartari]

Hi atanu,

How about a statement "I have no belief regarding presence of gasoline in that tank"? Is it same as the example you are providing?

Why cannot you say "There is no God" as simply as we say "There is no gasoline in tank"?

Sorry, but you seem to have misunderstood my analogy. It wasn't about the existence of god(s) but the belief or lack thereof in god(s), such that: gas/fuel is to belief and car is to god(s). For instance, the previous statement that I made, "it does not require gasoline to not fuel your car," is analogous to saying, "it does not require belief to disbelieve your god(s)."

 

[Augustus]

IThe whole point of parodies like the IPU and leprechauns is to illustrate how we handle lack of belief when we're talking about *anything* other than gods.

IMO, it is a complete failure to recognise context and human history, psychology, society, etc. and how these make atheism very different from 'apinkunicornism'.

Unless you want to abstract words from social context and treat them as mere grammatical formulae in some artificial normative vacuum, then it's pretty obvious why they are different.

 

[atanu]

Hi atanu,Sorry, but you seem to have misunderstood my analogy. It wasn't about the existence of god(s) but the belief or lack thereof in god(s), such that: gas/fuel is to belief and car is to god(s). For instance, the previous statement that I made, "it does not require gasoline to not fuel your car," is analogous to saying, "it does not require belief to disbelieve your god(s)."

There was no misunderstanding. I repeat:
How about a statement "I have no belief regarding presence of gasoline in that tank"?

Why cannot we say "There is no God" as simply as we say "There is no gasoline in tank"?

 

[atanu]

Why can't we say : I do not know either way?

I do.
That is why I lack a belief either way.

I understand that the meaning is "I do not know either way".

 

[allfoak]

Why cannot we say "There is no God" as simply as we say "There is no gasoline in tank"?

Because the denial of anything assumes it's existence.

 

[Mackerni]

If you told a Christian (or other theist of any kind) that there was no God, they would tell you that you have a lack of faith.

If you told an Atheist (or someone who doesn't have any sort of religious belief) that there was a God, they would tell you that you are delusional.

Both, however, would think that you're in some state of denial about the truth. Both are completely valid arguments. There is no right answer.

Religion is an opinion, after all.

 

[ArtieE]

I'm an apinkunicornist, and all my kids were born apinkunicornists as well.

So, obviously, we joined the Apinkunicornist Association and pay member fees to spread the knowledge and insight about our lack in belief in apinkunicornism.

I haven't joined the Apinkunicornist Association because there are so few Pinkunicornists that their opinions have no negative impact on me or my life. But if they become so many that they do, I will join.

 

[ArtieE]

I understand that the meaning is "I do not know either way".

If an agnostic says "I don't know if gods exist or not" he says nothing about what he believes.

 

[ArtieE]

Because the denial of anything assumes it's existence.

To deny the existence of Santa doesn't mean that you assume that Santa exists.

 

[ArtieE]

If you told an Atheist (or someone who doesn't have any sort of religious belief) that there was a God, they would tell you that you are delusional.

If you told an atheist that some god(s) exist he would most likely just ask for convincing evidence and stay an atheist until the theist has provided some.