Ladies on the forum, do you consider yourself to be a feminist?

[dust1n]

We need to stop telling women what they should and should not be.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

That's all I was saying. One COULD feel this way. You stated otherwise.

No. I asked for examples of feminist positions that could also be misandrist. You gave feelings that could be present in any person's brain. There isn't any that I have found that hates men but seeks gender equality.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

We need to stop telling women what they should and should not be.

Or that it's so incredibly likely that any position that seeks equality just under the surface could so easily hate men.

Doesn't fit.

 

[dust1n]

Or that it's so incredibly likely that any position that seeks equality just under the surface could so easily hate men.

Doesn't fit.

Or that people can take respectable positions on a topic they have never really bothered to get acquainted with but remain so adamantly against.

EDIT: I really can't frubal you enough in these sort of threads.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am female, and not a feminist. The feminists I've known seem to be women who are trying to be men - who do not embrace their feminine beauty. I have no interest in trying to become a man. I want to become more feminine.

I like and agree with this poem:
The world has enough women who are tough;
we need women who are tender.
There are enough women who are coarse;
we need women who are kind.
There are enough women who are rude;
we need women who are refined.
We have enough women of fame and fortune;
we need more women of faith.
We have enough greed;
we need more goodness.
We have enough vanity;
we need more virtue.
We have enough popularity;
we need more purity.

If you really do think that tenderness, kindness, refinement, faith, goodness, virtue, and purity are specifically feminine attributes, I shudder to think of what your opinion of men might be.

 

[Me Myself]

When you use analogies of prosecutors and defense lawyers, it sure sounds like "counter movement" is an appropriate description of what you're going for.

And the idea that you think that we need to "protect men from women"... I don't even know what to do with that. I don't think it's rational to think that we're in any danger of instituting a matriarchy that will disadvantage men the way that women have been disadvantaged in the past.

This is part of the problem.

Because of thinking in terms of "patriarchy" OR "matriarchy" we cant simply see different sexist approaches favoriing a different sex in different situations.

You do know men hae the short straw on some parts, yet you dont see the need of someone taking care of it?

The thing is a woman can go to media and say my husband beats meand it be false, and it will be hell for the man to make that known SPECIALLY if he fits other related stereotypes but is not a wife beater (lets say he is part of a minority and had drink problems in some moment of his life)

Then we add movements lke htis that will oversensationalize e thing. I say "over" not in the sense that it is not mortant, but in the sense that the other way around, it wouldnt have by far enough media coverage.

I am not saying nor I believe that most cases of doestic violence are like this, but the reality is that given the "man is the abuser" culturemost people are not likely to think the mamight be inocent.

Now try a man accusing his wife of domestic abuse. Thas going to be a joke.

More than 40% of domestic violence victims are male, report reveals | Society | The Observer

It cant be a joke. I am als against the stereotype of defenseless woman and abusive man. Thats exactly why we need movements helping BOTH SIDES not pretending only women have problems based on gender issues nor calling e whole gender assignment issue the "pathriarchy" .

Take an audience's response to a woman tossing stuff at a man and a man tossing stuff at a woman whein an argument in a TV show. It shouuld be concerning that the reactions are so unequal.

What aot the show were a group of women were laughing about the male's penis having cut off? I am noteven against it, my problem is that if it were a group of men laughing about a women having had her clitoris cut off what do you honestly think would have happened? Would feminist movements have acted out?

Seriously , it is inadmissible to have no movement concerned to change that.

 

[Me Myself]

We need to stop telling women what they should and should not be.

Is this statement sexist or is it hypocritical ?

 

[Poetic-Misprint]

A) I am a feminist, assuming you define feminist as someone who believes women deserve all legal and social rights that men do, and that women have choices they may make in all aspects of their lives. But I am also an egalitarian or a humanitarian, because I care about ALL human rights, and I support choices that oppose my own ideals, too.

B) The feminist movement, from what I see, has gone so unorganized and unclear that I stopped caring a bit ago. There are the crazies, the sane ones, etc. But there's so little unity that it's impossible to say where the movement is actually going to. My focus is now on human rights in general, women included.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

MM, simple question: Do you believe we currently live in a patriarchal paradigm culturally, socially, and economically?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is part of the problem.

Because of thinking in terms of "patriarchy" OR "matriarchy" we cant simply see different sexist approaches favoriing a different sex in different situations.

What opinions are you trying to say I have now?

You do know men hae the short straw on some parts, yet you dont see the need of someone taking care of it?

I do see a need to take care of it, but in that regard, I see "masculism" as a distraction at best and counter-productive at worst.

The thing is a woman can go to media and say my husband beats meand it be false, and it will be hell for the man to make that known SPECIALLY if he fits other related stereotypes but is not a wife beater (lets say he is part of a minority and had drink problems in some moment of his life)

[...]

Seriously , it is inadmissible to have no movement concerned to change that.

How would that scenario play out any differently if he was accused of pedophilia (edit: by a man or a woman) instead of beating his wife? I don't think the problem you describe is about gender.

 

[Me Myself]

MM, simple question: Do you believe we currently live in a patriarchal paradigm culturally, socially, and economically?

I belive matters of social economic and cultural importance far trascend black and whites.

I believe it is damaging to focus only in one group and pay no focused attention in the other one. I believe one single paradigm will obviously not be going toe good to adresss everything all at once and I think it is dangerous to not even consider the problems of a group you consider have it "overall" "easier"

I believe that for equality we actually have to see both sides from both sides perspectives.

 

[Me Myself]

What opinions are you trying to say I have now?


I do see a need to take care of it, but in that regard, I see "masculism" as a distraction at best and counter-productive at worst.


How would that scenario play out any differently if he was accused of pedophilia (edit: by a man or a woman) instead of beating his wife? I don't think the problem you describe is about gender.

Depends, would a woman be accused of pedophilia?

I am not worried with your opinions, I am worried about your subconscious leanings emotional leanings.

And fine, call it as you may, have a new name, whatever. But the system is not working to correct that, it might as well need a specialized social movement for it. If you have gender equality being approached only or primarily from the point of view of women, then we have a problem.

And again, if the man accused the woman, he wouldnt have by far as much support.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

In order to be a feminist then you need to recognise male privilege. Call it finger pointing all you want but male privilege should be challenged and if that means men need to understand their privilege and change, then I'm not really seeing the problem.

Also I find the title of that video misleading. She's specifically talking about political lesbianism not radical feminism. I'm not a political lesbian.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Depends, would a woman be accused of pedophilia?

It happens occasionally.

I am not worried with your opinions, I am worried about your subconscious leanings emotional leanings.

From how this conversation is going, you might want to worry about your own. Hearing you portray feminism as something you need to protect yourself from makes me wonder what sorts of issues you're struggling with yourself.

And fine, call it as you may, have a new name, whatever. But the system is not working to correct that, it might as well need a specialized social movement for it. If you have gender equality being approached only or primarily from the point of view of women, then we have a problem.

And again, if the man accused the woman, he wouldnt have by far as much support.

I think that false accusations of serious crimes is a problem across the board, not just when women accuse men. If we frame it as a male-female issue as you're trying to have us do, then I think it would mainly distract us from finding real solutions to the actual underlying problems.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I belive matters of social economic and cultural importance far trascend black and whites.

I believe it is damaging to focus only in one group and pay no focused attention in the other one. I believe one single paradigm will obviously not be going toe good to adresss everything all at once and I think it is dangerous to not even consider the problems of a group you consider have it "overall" "easier"

I believe that for equality we actually have to see both sides from both sides perspectives.

Careful. Keep talking like this and you'll start sounding like a feminist.

Black/white; male/female; this/that; leader/subordinate....sounds remarkably like patriarchy and what it sounds like you and I are fighting against.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Careful. Keep talking like this and you'll start sounding like a feminist.

Black/white; male/female; this/that; leader/subordinate....sounds remarkably like patriarchy and what it sounds like you and I are fighting against.

Go intersectionality!

 

[Me Myself]

Careful. Keep talking like this and you'll start sounding like a feminist.

Black/white; male/female; this/that; leader/subordinate....sounds remarkably like patriarchy and what it sounds like you and I are fighting against.

I am fighting against putting blame on "patriarchy" instead of "unequality" , and solution in "feminism" instead of "equality".

Do you understand the problem when it comes from comunication to polarize it that way specifically?

You say that patriarchy causes problems to both genders, well, then lets not associate it primarily with one of them. You say feminism tries to make both genders be equal, well then lets not associate it to just one of them.

I could see feminism as a sort of branch of humanism, as long as there is a similar branch focused on the male side of the unequalities, as you have said do exist.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

In order to be a feminist then you need to recognise male privilege. Call it finger pointing all you want but male privilege should be challenged and if that means men need to understand their privilege and change, then I'm not really seeing the problem.

And that's part of the problem. People refuse to acknowledge male privilege or white privilege because it forces all of us to face a very uncomfortable notion, that we as a whole help to perpetuate an unjust system.

I think both men and women need to change and fight the inequality together.

Also I find the title of that video misleading. She's specifically talking about political lesbianism not radical feminism. I'm not a political lesbian.

I seriously doubt the authenticity of the story in the video itself, tbh.

 

[Me Myself]

Both male and female privilege exist.

Instead of thinking which exists more and forget aot the other one, we could fight both.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I am fighting against putting blame on "patriarchy" instead of "unequality" , and solution in "feminism" instead of "equality".

Do you understand the problem when it comes from comunication to polarize it that way specifically?

Do you see examples of male privilege?

You say that patriarchy causes problems to both genders, well, then lets not associate it primarily with one of them. You say feminism tries to make both genders be equal, well then lets not associate it to just one of them.

I'm not getting what you're saying here at all.

I could see feminism as a sort of branch of humanism, as long as there is a similar branch focused on the male side of the unequalities, as you have said do exist.

I have to ask again, do you see examples of male privilege as a result of patriarchal paradigms? (Alliteration, whoot!)